Kia stepped up and who ever is believing their hype will be stepping in it. Kia vehicles do not have a great track record for longevity, quality or retaining value.
The Q50 and Giulia are on a different level.

Kia reliability score... 71

Nissan reliability score 53.

Where your data came from? Here's mine?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...they-stack-up/


This Kia argument is a lot like the liberal gun debate. A lot of opinion and no fact.

My friends car broke down so it has to be bad.
Hyundai ranks 10, there overall score is 59.
SO Kia is doing something even better than Hyundai despite them using the same parts bin.

Yup, here’s another that puts the Korean cousins in fairly high placings:

2017 Vehicle Dependability Study | J.D. Power
# 1 Lexus.
# 6 Hyundai
# 11 Kia (right behind Jaguar)
Nissan is 23, right ahead of most of FCA which brings up the rear (and Infinity is 29).

The quality argument re Kia and Hyundai is baseless prejudice anymore.

I don't believe the stats. They are just like your governments hype about the Russians, all BS. Very subjective and manipulative by the 'powers' that want/need to convince us of something. Statistics are easy to manipulate and then dump the opinions on the general public. What I do believe are at least seven different people, and a Kia service manger who happens to be a buddy of mine. All have had multiple Kia vehicles and have had nothing but negative issues with them. So bad in fact that all have taken hits and traded them in. That said, I am certain though that Kia can produce some decent vehicles. But I don't believe that the vehicles, or the company for that matter, are awesome, revolutionary, etc, etc. Nothing mind blowing or superlative! They are at best, average. I certainly wouldn't spend my money on them. Again, this is just my opinion based on what I have experienced, seen, heard.

Friends had a Kia.They had a lot of problems with car.My ex wife had a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe which I bought for her new.No issues with.It was the most reliable vehicle I had owned.She traded in last year for new Santa Fe.
Also I think it is more the model than the manufactor.All companies make some Lemons;including Mercedes.
With any car I would be leery of buying the first year made.Let them work the bugs out.Z steering wheel lock.The Stinger is sporty.
I think the Z is a better looking car than Stinger.If you want more performance in Z add it .

That's it...all vehicles have a lemon or two. Look at the Nissan CVT. Mitsubishi had issues with timing belt actuators failing prematurely (that and lack of owner maintenance). We shall see how the Stinger does. It isn't in the class of a Z but for what you're getting for the price it isn't a bad entry into sports sedan. Take the Genesis Coupe in comparison to the Z/g35/37. Those are decent cars at a fraction of the cost.

I came in for KIA bashing :icon17:

Oh wait I thought it was Hyundai :bowrofl:

SAME PIECE OF CRAP!!

While i believe some of what you say when government's or organizations that accept corporate revenue create reports. But you must be aware of your sources. Your blanket statements about the "reliability conspiracy to uplift a brand" when you use a third party statistic like Consumer Reports falls short.
You can use a stat like true delta or similar if you're skeptical? They would be more honest as in the people reporting took the time to purchase the vehicle and report their incidents. Instead of my buddy told me...

You don't have to like Kia... find them average etc... you can be the stereotypical Hyundai hater all you want. Why? Cuz Murrica? That's why...

But when you step into the realm of stating facts. You have to come with more than he said... she said. I don't care if your friend is the COO of Kia. There are sustainable facts out there and it becomes your job to present them once you base your judgement as fact..

I have seen the opposite of you. I seen my wayward family run Hyundais to death, pulling a quarter million miles out of them while barely maintaining them. I've seen some reliable azz Hyundais. Your witnessing is as valid as mine. That's why we need factual statistics of your claims.

If you want my personal opinion, versus my view of them as a thriving company... I find their vehicles average as well. The main difference between us is I greatly appreciate their efforts in contributing to the car market where supposed heritage companies have sold out the enthusiast for profit.
The STINGER is average looking. But its a step in the right direction for the enthusiast market. And anyone keeping the enthusiast market alive in terms of performance, gets a nod of respect from me...

Cuz What is Nissan doing for its middle class enthiasts?
Ummm Sentra Nismo, Leaf Nismo and midnight edition every wacky doo car Nissan has.:ughdance:

What did Kia do?
Give us a nearly 400hp RWD performance GT with a quality interior for the cash and lots of interior space.
Plus... Not a crossover. I give them extra respect for that.

Which sounds more interesting?
Nismo Leaf? STINGER? :roflpuke2:

I'm not trying to be a rude or anything UNKNOWN_370 but whats the point in all this? go buy a kia stinger already since its so much better lol You've made your point, you think Nissan is a "joke" and "trash"

repeating yourself.. over n over all while doing it on a forum for a car from Nissan... should have ended 6 pages ago.

Again, i know it comes off as rude, im not intending it to be nor am i trying to attack you in anyway lol im just sayin :bowrofl:

Off topic, but are you 4Canada on the other forum?

wait............are we seriously still discussing a fuckin kia?!

no wonder why this forum is dead :facepalm:

4C Forum?
Yessir!
I'm old and have enough trouble remembering passwords, let alone usernames! :tiphat:

Well, this is the "Off Topic / Other Vehicles" section.
That's what it is meant for...

We're car guys. If you're a Nissan-only guy, what are you doing trolling this part of the forum? Meant politely.

I saw a blue stinger today I think it was the gt2 looks better in person really stands out. I think I would take this over the euro's or the Japanese, definitely over a maxima lol

Just to clarify... I never said Nissan is trash. I said they've done nothing for the middle class enthusiast market.

Then I reinforced a fact vs an opinion.

Not offended... but obviously. If u hadda repeat yourself twice about not offending me... u already know u r trying to. But I'm not.

Funny how emotions have become more valid than facts. And they say mind control doesn't exist. :icon17:

Oh and for the money, I'd buy an Alfa.

Anyway I'm done here.

Definitely over a Maxima.

If the transmission shifts like a sports car? I would even possibly choose it over a Q50s?



:iagree:

Cool! :tup: I joined the Alfa board a couple weeks back and been lurking everyday reading every threads/articles I could find about the car. Falling in love with a car again. For me there is no current Z replacement out there besides a Cayman but I need something extra special that I don’t see everyday and that’s where the Alfa fills that void perfectly. I’m looking around for one to test drive soon. Hopefully things panned out we’ll have our first Italian launch edition in our driveway in a near future!:driving:


Now back to you guys with the Kia bashing :rofl2:

This was a very interesting UNBIASED comparison of the Q50 and Stinger. It seems the Stinger drove a little more like a luxury car, the Infiniti was a little more sporty. But the Stinger was Significantly faster. 4.6 to 60 vs 5.3 in the Infiniti. Which are almost red sport numbers for Q50s prices.
Also Infiniti interior quality was only marginally better. They had an equal amount of cheap plastics but Infiniti made their car seem slightly higher quality per interior design choices.

From his review, i gather Kia has to give this car a more defined identity. I think the Genesis G70 will do that much better. What's interesting is, I heard the G70 will be noticeably faster than the Stinger, while on the same chassis and engine/power. I'm guessing the transmission choice and suspension?

https://youtu.be/XCmuKu5n7Og

Assuming this hard :ugh2:
Was being honest & i knew how it came off so wanted to make my intention clear, its easy to interpret something the wrong way over text.

I know I'm probably only posting this for three people. But you're 3 important people none the least. :tiphat:

I thought this was a great overview of a Kia, with extensive testing over a week. Off road testing included. First performance impressions look very promising.

Check it out.

https://youtu.be/MoFpGRnoVl0

Test driven
 

With all the back and forth, anti and pro-emotions about a car that nobody that I've heard of, has actually driven on, I decided to take one for the team, and spent 45 minutes behind the wheel of a Kia Stinger GT2. Having test driven the maxima, Q50s and Q60 red sport. I thought it be only right to give this Kia the respect of a test drive n not just be happy Hyundai is making something people want. Ok down to the Nitty Gritty.

Upfront exterior styling... I think it's a very nice car with a good attention to detail. The design lines obviously aren't overly swoopy or dramatic. But I would say it's a combination of Bold and smooth. The exterior paint is top notch and honestly. Higher end cars could take notes on kia' s color palette. The dealership was bright colorful and exciting with a whole row of stingers in a bunch of cool colors. A great departure from the "50 shades of grey" at the Infiniti dealership:ugh2: The taillights are striking and the power litigate opens with authority and what you'd expect from BMW etc.. The grille is plastic, but the did such a good job you really don't know till you touch it. And you gotta stay feeling it to know because it has like a metallic dotting that feels like metal at first.

Interior. VERY NICE! At 44k which means you lose the power liftgate, some safety features and some tech. You pay $46k to add the tech pkg. It's still very much loaded. I was amazed at how well the seats hugged you. I liked the feel of the seats a tiny bit better than the Q60 as the Kia hugged me tighter and I felt slightly more planted in my seat. But the Q60 does not disappoint at all and are also amazing seats. I have to compare it to the 60 and not the 50 because, the Stinger keeps you nice and low in the car. The q50 keeps you more upright in your driving position. So, in my opinion. 50 to Kia, Stinger is better. 60 to Stinger, they are basically tied. The quality is strong in both cars though. The Infiniti has nicer twists and shapes in the door design. But the center console in the Kia blows the infiniti out the water. Stereo sound is comparable but a bit better in the Infiniti.The Maxima can play in the same realm with the interior. But the Kia is cleaner and more ergonomic than the max. The console in the Stinger is what i expected from a 50 but didn't get. The buttons feel and look like a German car. No lie. The doors... the open and close very solid with a good balance of weight and they have a low impact inertia so they close effortlessly and luxuriously. That impressed me. Too many doors sound hollow and tinny. It's understandable why it weighs 3900lbs.

The DRIVE

Well, for my tastes, the steering is too light. But I like heavy steering wheels. My camaro is programmed to track mode on the steering, which means. I get a Schwarzenegger workout making right turns. Lol.:driving: But I would say the steering is comparable to the q60 but you get the feedback the q60 doesn't give you so steering feel goes to kia and responsiveness is tied. (Comparing to non DAS). Feedback wins

The power... This car feels every bit as fast as the red sport. The difference is. The Red Sport has an instant push you in the back of your seat torque. The Kia is more of a progressive torque like the 370z. It literally feels like a 370z. The torque response is slightly stronger than the 370 when the turbos are in full spool but... they feel VERY CLOSE, but you get that red sport speed.

The chassis is wayyyyyy more solid in the Kia. The Kia chassis is everything that the Infiniti isn't. The exhaust is quiet bit a muffler delete sounds amazing. There was a guy there with a white one with the delete. Some downpies would make it sound tough.
The transmission was uber quick and responsive. Again, demolishing infiniti. I don't understand why the 370z transmission is so goid n the Infiniti so bad when it's essentially the same. You have to wait 2 seconds for the Infiniti to shift. The Q50/60 says to u. "Oh you want me to shift"?:roflpuke2: The Kia Stinger is comparable to Mini coppers JEW 8 speed auto in performance. If any of y'all driven one? So big props to the kia on transmission response. The max, is CVT so im not even gonna get started there. No comparison.

All this said... The Infiniti is a very good car. It offers a specific styling for specific tastes as does the Kia. Neither is as universal in style as Audi or BMW. So I think while they are very comparable. They can both exist without eating each other on a competitive level
But... if the Genesis G70 is a step up from the Kia? Is expected to be lighter and faster? I think the Genesis G70 is going to give Infiniti a real problem from a performance to price standpoint. Especially if Genesis makes their version of a red sport? Only because I would near tie the Kia and Infiniti interior. But the Genesis will be a step up from the Kia. We'll have to see? But no matter how good the Genesis will be? There will be plenty of people beating that 10 year old dead horse saying. Hyundai sucks.:horse:

:icon18:

Thanks for posting this. Since most people who bash Kia/Hyundai have never been closer to one than beside one at a traffic light, it's good to hear straight goods from someone with an open mind.

Lets not forget that Datsun, Toyota, and Mazda were all in the same place as the Korean twins at one time. It's just that the Japanese marques had a 30 year head start. That Lexus (essentially Toyota) could lead the reliability and satisfaction surveys in North America would have been unfathomable in the 1970's.

Don't forget the ones that say. My friend owns two and they are trash. :roflpuke2:

That 3rd party testimonial lacks information, entertainment and is kinda redundant on any forum about any car. But it is augmented with hyundai/kia.

All I can say is my 14’ 3.8 Genesis coupe has been rock solid except for a pesky sunroof switch that keeps sticking. Close to 60k miles and nothing ever has gone wrong. Knock on wood. I have friends who own old Velosters, and new, Coupes like mine, Cadenzas, K900 (Nice luxury car especially for the money) and Genesis sedans and not one thing has happened that I know of. I have a friend who has a BMW 340 and is seriously looking at getting a Stinger. All brands have issues, some more than others as we all know but sticking your nose up at Kia/Hyundai, especially in the last 5 years is just ignorant. They’ve come a long way, a GOOD long way, and kudos for them for doing it. Nissan fell asleep at the Camry wheel. Yawn.

Why is this even a metric? It has never made any sense to me why manufacturers advertise hilariously useless top speeds, especially with many cars having a speed limiter.

Because, my dear American friend, there are parts of the world outside your borders. Some of those will actually allow you to explore that number. :-p

Kidding. Not many. But it’s like the horsepower wars. Except nobody questions that higher HP is a good thing. Yet really, the two numbers typically mean the same thing give or take coefficients of drag. And since a 125 HP car has no problem breaking the speed limit, so by the same logic nobody really needs 600 HP. So why do they make ‘em??? Rhetorical question, so please don’t pile up on me for it.

I almost got a Genny coupe. Looks awesome and the newer models had decent performance to boot. This Stinger (dumbest name ever) is a really impressive vehicle coming from a manufacturer that many considered junk. When Korean cars are becoming the front runner in sport sedan models it leaves much to be said. German car reliability is very hit or miss, Japan will stick with hybrids and as for the American manufaturers it's still the same offerings. Nice to see something different and give the people something to be excited about. Without much competition the Stinger will probably be a very nice niche vehicle for someone looking for a sedan with more. Only time will tell however.

If I it makes you Happy? A Z With a tune has an estimated top speed of 168mph. A well modified Z with a tune may get as high as 171mph. :tiphat:

My opinion pretty much aligns with yours. In a year or two? I could pick up a Stinger, for under $35k used? I'd buy it... I'd choose it over a Q50 if shopping for sedans. But if I got a better deal on a Q70, the Q70 wins hands down. I really love the Q70. I would call it Nissan/Infiniti perfection.

I too almost bought a genny back when. It was between the Z, camaro and gencoupe. The Z won. But I walked away from my genesis driving experiences with a smile. It just needed a few tweaks to make it perfect. Tweaks the Z already had.

I hate to burst people’s bubble, but Nissan will always have a strong market-share presence, as with other car companies. Whether you buy Nissan or not, whether you switch to another brand, Nissan doesn’t care because there will always be someone to buy from them. The 370Z has been in production for almost a decade with minor updates, yet is still selling.

Exactly man. I like the direction Hyundai/kia are going and in a few years if the price is right on a Stinger it'll be something to consider.

I don't think anyone's bubble is being bursted. Cuz no one here is anti Nissan. Almost everyone here owns one or plans to own one if a Z35 drops? We just want companies like Mitsubishi not to disrespect the name of cars like that freakin Mitsubishi Eclipse CROSSOVER.

But yeah, their are enough chumps in the world choosing CVT's and leafblowers to destroy the enthusiast market and support SOULLESS vehicles, but still find a way to bash an enthusiast car cuz it's a Kia.

People gotta try to burst the bubble that Kia made a good car. It's not vice versa.

By the way... I'm sure Renault, Peugot, Suzuki and Isuzu cared when their successful market dwindled. And it took 30 years for Alfa to come back. Nissan cares about market share more than you think. They're just lucky people are drones and the enthusiast market is DYING. Cuz men are worried about erasing gender identity. Not driving cool cars.

Man that's the truth! I think it just all depends on our ages. When I became old enough to drive the eclipse was a few years old and we had a few iconic cars available (if you had deep pockets or well off parents lol) Now that I've gotten older cooler cars are few and far between it seems. I'm sure that happens with technology and automarket progression but that doesn't mean that the development of newer exciting vehicles doesnt have to exist. My Z is also a daily and eventually I'll find a replacement for it but I want it to be just as fun to drive. Kudos to Kia!!

Yes, Nissan does care about market-share. What I said was that Nissan isn’t going to care about an individual that gets PO-ed for whatever reason and swears off Nissan. You have those people that are like “I’m never buy Nissan again!”, to which Nissan really wouldn’t care because they will always have others that will buy from them. For example, I have a few condo’s that I rent out and do have some bad tenants. They gripe and b*tch over petty sh!t, always pay late, get quite a few complaints from the HOA about them, and threaten to move out, and I couldn’t care less. I know that I will have someone else that will rent it if they do decide to vacate.

Yup, I think that attitude is pretty clear in Nissan’s business practices.
Who’s to say they are wrong? I’ve been jerked around by them (corporate and dealerships - plural) for decades, and still own two. Shame on me!

Truth is, they (Nissans) are a (pretty) good product, at a decent price. The difference in your analogy, though, is that you have a very limited number of residential units. Nissan does not sell 100% of its manufacturing capacity. OTOH, if they have to drop pricing to to that, it might not be worth the effort.

A rising tide floats all boats. When the Hyundai’s and Kias of the world come up with well priced and well built, good driving cars, every manyfacturer needs to up their game just that much more. Wait another 30 years, until the Chinese makers are there!!!

Exactly.... the true enthusiast isn't riding on sales of a Maxima, Altima Rogue... in my eyes they're the same as a Sorrento or Camry. Accord or whatever mundane utilitarian crap that's out there. None of the top 10 brands have anything to worry about... ever. When it comes to cars like that, price to features is what matters. And with this new market. ALMOST NO CARS have good resale... All the residual value have gone to trucks and crossover. The only sports cars with good resale are Porsche. And the only NON crossover cars are Lexus Audi Toyota. All very bland looking vehicles with dramatically awful bumpers. :ugh2:

RWD Performance coupes $50,000 and under.
370z
Camaro
Mustang
BMW 2 series
Infiniti Q60
Lexus Rc

Of these choices... Only the first 3 feel special behind the wheel.


RWD Performance sedans under 50,000.
Alfa Romeo Giulia.
Infiniti Q50
Kia Stinger
BMW 3 series
Jaguar xe

Imho... Only the Giulia drives above the other 4. The other 4 drive neck and neck. Our choices are way smaller than 20+ years ago And instead of cars trying to stand out in the crowd. They are trying to be a spin off of there competitor. That's true of every car brand. Not just Hyundai. . I remember when Nissan had like 5 or 6 performance oriented cars that all had individual characteristics. Mazda was like that too. The fun in cars are DYING. So we are gonna bash the last of the pioneers for the sports car enthusiast???? Really? Is that what being an enthusiast has become in this shytty market.

We bash the guy doing something n defend the guy destroying the market which we love?

I dunno man. .

Or, you can look at it the way Porsche does- it's the SUV sales that allow them to put out some of the wilder variants of the 911. RS division exists thanks to the rich soccer moms who have graduated from Caravans to Cayennes.

60 years old tomorrow.

Been driving motorcycles and pickup trucks most of my life. (cars are for the missus)

Pure impulse, I bought a 2010 Z roadster a few weeks ago. Knew nothing about them.
But it was so dang beautiful sitting there with no top on it. And the test drive revealed an amazing tight car that was just shear FUN to hustle in.

So....... this thread...... I just read it all.

It probably sounds very different to me than all the long time Z loyalists. (I certainly can't claim to be one) But nothing I read here has diminished my new found honeymoon love affair with the Z.

I had no idea it was a dinosaur. Lol
I thought it was a classic, a legend, a cult followed masterpiece. I'm just late to the party.

Did I mention you can get these in fantastic condition for a song & dance?

However nice that new Kia might be, it's a looooong looooong ways from owning the kind of heritage the Z will always have.



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Congrats on your. New ride. It's beautiful. :tiphat:
The Z is everything you said it is and more. Tight is a beautiful way to describe the Z. And yes it is a classic.
The Z is an amazing car. We'd never expect a sedan to take the spot of a two seater coupe. The Kia is a fun daily saloon, the Z is a sports car.
We just want the Z to be competitive within its own segment. We just have some fanboys mixing the two IDEALOGIES where it doesn't belong.

Hello snakebite! :hello:
Happy b-day and congrats. The Z is one fine car, you will enjoy it. You may need to put an elastic chin strap on your stetson though with that convertible, don't want to loose it now. Enjoy!

Nice ride Snakebite!! I think this was a good discussion topic lol!! Either way at the end of the day we all still love the Z, or better yet have passion about cool cars!