I agree.... this car was built from the ground up to suit us in the west. So it's like starting anew. The past is exactly that. That's been my point the whole time. But ugh... in my opinion. This bad boy is the leader of the pack.

Let's be honest, in the 70's, 80's and 90's Audi did not have a stellar record for quality and/or longevity. I say, only time will tell how good the Giulia will be. But damn it, Alfa Romeo has definitely done something right with this new Giulia.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/rev...s-jaguar-xe#20

The Alfa wins AGAIN!

Link to Page 1, if you don't want to back through all 20 to get to the start of the story...
:-)

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/rev...vs-jaguar-xe#1

Saw this in the June 2017 MotorTrend at a dealership today. Not sure if the article was posted already - I think that the video was.

MotorTrend $399 Lease Deal Challenge.

That's the regular Giulia.

Spoiler Alert: The Alfa wins.

Also in the same magazine is a review/comparison of the Giulia Quadrifoglio against other performance sedan competitors. Basically, they were blown away with it.

MotorTrend Sports Sedan Comparison

Spoiler alert: The Alfa wins. Again.

Quote:
To judge a brand-new car’s expected reliability by the reputation of a car produced 30 years ago is absurd, but bad reputations are tough to shake, especially one as well earned as Alfa Romeo’s. Alas every conversation we had about the Giulia Quadrifoglio included concerns of impending catastrophic breakdown. To our surprise, the Alfa showed no sign of weakness during this long, abusive test. Instead, it charmed us all and crippled the competition, claiming an easy victory.

Why so easy? The sheer breadth of its capabilities. The Giulia is a jack-of-all-trades and master of most. Whereas most cars do one thing well at the expense of everything else, the Giulia simply does everything well. For example, it rides so smoothly, is so quiet inside, and cruises down the highway with such relaxed confidence that we GPS-verified its speedometer to ensure it wasn’t optimistic by 15 mph.

But then, with the mode selector in Race mode, the Alfa forgets about luxury, transforming into a violent sports sedan with a bad boy attitude none of its three competitors can come close to matching. On track, the Alfa demonstrates athleticism nearing the Cadillac’s but manages an even quicker lap time. The Giulia’s torque-vectoring rear differential helps put every one of its 505 horsepower to good use. There’s no accidental tire smoke here. In fact, the Giulia doesn’t like to do powerslides; it just wants to be fast.

Speaking of fast, the Alfa’s steering uses an obscenely quick ratio, 11.8:1 with just 2.3 turns from lock to lock. The electrically assisted steering is as light as a Ferrari’s and almost as precise, giving its driver the impression that the Giulia is weightless. Aided by hyperaggressive 60-tread-wear Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires, cornering grip is yuge, which left us puzzled when the Alfa tied the BMW for the least skidpad grip of the group.

Ignore that number. In fact, ignore all numbers because whether driving in a straight line, in corners, or on a racetrack, the Alfa is incredible. Over broken, twisty tarmac, this sedan’s family lineage becomes clear. Ferrari’s former chief engineer Roberto Fedeli is now Alfa Romeo’s chief technical officer, and the Quadrifoglio’s dynamics bear his stamp. This five-seater possesses the same preternatural ability as the best recent Ferraris to follow your wishes no matter how absurd the request. It does things that seem impossible, feeling like it could change direction while airborne. It shrugs off jumps, bumps, surface changes, and camber swaps as if the laws of physics were rewritten especially for it. You know there must be electronic trickery happening, yet you feel none of it. And better, all of this capability is met with equal parts fun, and that’s something so often missing in very fast cars. The Giulia Quadrifoglio is the closest thing to a Ferrari sedan you can buy.

We haven’t even spoken of the engine yet. The 505-hp 2.9-liter V-6 is a masterpiece. It’s not just good for a V-6, like every other engine of this configuration, but genuinely, surprisingly, odds-defyingly epic. Then again, it should be, since it’s a Ferrari California T V-8 with the front two cylinders lopped off. The short-stroke, nonbalance-shafted six will rev 900 rpm past its 6,500-rpm tachometer redline, never making any of the cringeworthy mechanical noises that plague all other V-6s. This is, perhaps, the best V-6 since the famed Alfa Romeo “Busso” engine that powered the Giulia’s predecessors three decades ago.

By any normal standards, the powerplant suffers from major turbo lag. No surprise, because it delivers similar power to the twin-turbocharged Mercedes V-8 using just three-quarters the pistons and displacement. However, the Giulia knows that turbo response quickens with engine speed, so it plays a few tricks to keep its engine on the boil. First and most fabulous, the 505-hp Quadrifoglio’s first six gears are shorter than those in a 155-hp Mazda Miata. Read that sentence again, please.

The second trick is keeping the exhaust from the two banks of cylinders mostly separate, resulting in a V-6 that sounds more like two angry three-cylinder engines. The pitch doesn’t change much with engine speed, so what sounds to your ears like 3,000 rpm is more like 5,000 on the tach. The Quadrifoglio’s engine never screams like an Italian soprano, but all those relaxed revs mean you’ll never be yelling about its turbo lag.

In stop-and-go traffic, of course, you can catch the engine asleep. It’s here that you also notice the Giulia’s biggest flaw—it is impossible to come to a smooth, slow stop. To blame are two things: one, a by-wire braking system that’s not always linear in its response and two, a clutch that decouples the transmission right as the car is about to come to a full stop. Fiat-Chrysler says the by-wire system allows the brakes to react more quickly to inputs and cycle more quickly under ABS, but the Quadrifoglio’s braking distances were midpack despite its grippy tires. So we see no benefit from using the by-wire system.

What we do see is added complexity on an Italian car. That makes us nervous. We happily awarded the Giulia first place, experiencing no reliability issues at all with the two test cars we abused. Then, a few weeks later, a different Giulia died in traffic, leaving one of our senior staffers blocking the road until the flatbed arrived. And then yet another test car showed off its Italian heritage by stalling randomly during a photo shoot.

Apparently this Giulia might live up to Alfa’s love-it-but-don’t-trust-it reputation after all. Or it could just be early-build teething problems from an all-new platform. We still think it’s the best compact sport sedan you can buy, even if it winds up breaking your heart. Better to have loved and been towed home than to have never loved at all.

SINISTER will love that last bit. But keep in mind, this was also a pre-production car.

Drove by the Alpha place in McLean the other day and they have tons of inventory sittings unsold.

Yes, here in London Ontario, too. ("WHERE?", he asks. LOL) Probably 30 cars on their lot yesterday (I doubt that the BMW dealer down the street moves that many 3/4 series cars in 6 months). Not sure what they were thinking. But there will be deals to be had by December/January for sure. Maybe not on the Q, but on the regular models.

I wanna see the quadrifoglio in AWD.

Expect them to be dumped coming september.....rebates and incentives. Same for the RS Focus and the GT350...on cars.com and other sites.....lots of inventory sitting now...I think my area alone, DC-VA-MD, in a 100 mile radius there are over 100 GT350's available.

And......it has begun. It didn't take long for Alfa Romeo's legendary reliability problems to begin. I'll admit that was quick. Even I thought it would be a little better than previous Alfa offerings. I guess the Chrysler influence sped things up.

deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2<\/title>

<\/svg>')}.f_branding_on.blog-group-deadspin .editor-inner.post-content .pu

I hate to say I told you so, but................

Well, I wouldn't buy lilies and a black suit just yet.

That article seems to stem from one the other day in Road & Track detailing some problems with theirs and listing a number of other reviewers' cars that went down.

In an unprecedented move for Alfa Romeo...
Alfa CEO Responds to R&T

There can be no excuse for giving unprepared cars to journalists, and Alfa had better learn from this before they do the same with Giulia's new cousin, Stelvio. But software glitches in new cars are not unique to Alfa. Don't bury the hardware just because some of the software wasn't patched.

I have it from some respected US tuners that the platform is a solid one. But the early versions of ECU programming could not handle pressing the throttle and brake together - put the car into limp mode every time. That's likely what happened here. No, not all the faults were this. But I'm not going to condemn a model because one sunroof had problems closing, either.

The bigger issue with the Quadrifoglio version is that it eats tires when driven very hard. It's a 3,800+ lb 500+ HP RWD sedan, so that's not exactly a shock. Alfa found this out on the GP track at the Nurburgring when they reportedly ran out of rubber at a press day. I know someone who has 3,000 miles on his and is on his THIRD set of tires. A large percentage of those miles have been on a race track, and he doesn't let up just because he's driving a family saloon. Just ask the 911 Turbo drivers he's passed. Oh, and no idiot lights or issues for him, except that the stability control kicks in way too aggressively for tracking unless you are in RACE mode. :driving:

Finally, please note that a number of these agencies placed the Giulia and Giulia Q at the top of their segments despite the foibles they experienced. It might be wishful thinking, or it might be that (when it works) the car is just that good.

We'll see. Time will tell.

Will be making a deal n putting my order in this weekend.

I'm mad Excited!!!

This is just the beginning. Maybe next year or the year after next I will order a quadrifoglio. I'm just Leary of owning an actual Ferrari engine. But I'm almost there. Baby steps. I'll start with this incredible 4 cylinder GLOBAL engine.

Have you at all considered slightly used?? in the USA - https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7374/overview/

It looks like the as was gone. I've had a hard time finding new or used to my exact options.

If I get everything I want on the interior? It's missing the active suspension. If I get the active suspension, either the exterior color or interior is off. The deal offered to me was $47,000OTD on a cash deal. That's almost $5,000 under price.

Which quadrifoglio would you get? Sedan or coupe?

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/alfa-r...-ar177190.html

900miles 43k$ so offer 40!!- https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0437/overview/

The one that exists. The 2-door is just a design study by some arts student. There's a station wagon out there in the ether, also!

I agree with the article, that a coupe is a requirement to cement the brand's position. But just becuase it "makes sense", do not take it as a given that an Italian car maker will actually produce it! ;-)

Me, I'd probably go for the coupe if they were both out, and I had the cash. Neither condition is met right now, though.

I think I'd do the sedan in AWD Ti and then get a Quadrifoglio coupe!! Lol. They are that GOOD.

Well doing research on my future vehicle I came across this tidbit of info about using polymer in the turbo of the Alfa, due to power output on a small engine making them run hotter.

https://www.basf.com/us/en/company/n...US-17-049.html

Interesting stuff. Though 220C does not sound particularly hot for a turbocharger. I guess it depends where within the assembly you're looking. In the 4C turbo, exhaust gas inlet temps push 1000C (stock is something like 980C). How that translates to charged air temperature, I don't know.

I'm guessing the location of that part doesn't heat up as much as the exhaust inlet. 220°C in US, is 425°F. That does seem cool.

Re-reading it again the article talks about 220 operating temps on the cold air intake side, and another product on the hot side for which they do not quote a temperature. That number seems to be the Holy Grail for tuners to work with, and often not so easy to figure out what maximum temperatures at the turbo can be.

Me: So if we make this deal this morning? How long does it take to ship my car from Italy?

Dealer: I'm not going to lie to you. It can take up to 5 months to take delivery if you don't purchase one from our lot.

Me: Hold up... wait! 5 months??

Dealer: Yes sir but you'll have the car in the exact spec you want it.

Me: If I was buying the actual quadrifoglio? Maybe? A ti?
Hell to the know. I guess I'm going to have to go the national listings route till one comes up.

Dealer: the salesman pitch blah blah blah, it could be only 3 months. I'm telling you it can take 5 months delivery.

Me: And I thank you for not letting me go thru the aggravation. Ur selection is nothing I want n the state doesn't have many Ti's in the CO figuration I'm looking for. Let alone the color. Thank you for your time sir. If u come across what I'm looking for before I buy something else. Let me know

Rosso competizione/misano blue or trifecta white
Tan leather on white or red
Black leather on blue
Sport pkg exterior
Sport pkg interior
Biohazard wheels
Panoramic sunroof
All Tech options
HK soundsystem.

Things ship from Italy when they feel like getting shipped.....just ask any Ducati or Aprilia owner......

That's ridiculous!!! Not a way to be successful in America.

Both comments are exactly true.

But I did warn you about Alfa corporate in an earlier post.

Many in the US bought their 4C's from across the country and had them shipped, because either their dealership was price gouging or there was absolutely no telling if and when orders could be placed, or when the product would arrive. And no dealer swapping mechanism. Finding their own car was the only alternative.

I'm being 100% serious when I tell you that dealerships had no idea if their orders were accepted, whether they could order certain option combinations successfully, when the car might go into production, or when it might arrive. They received confirmation that the car had been produced when they received a call from the delivery truck driver that he was an hour away from the dealership. That's improved in the past year, but still is far from perfect.

It appears to be ingrained in Italian corporate culture - cars, bikes, guns, marble, heavy equipment parts are all the same. You can bitch about it, accept it, or work around it. But you won't change it.

Go nationwide and find the exact car you want, then get it. Life's too short to not drive an Alfa Romeo. (I hope that doesn't get me banned on a Nissan board!)

I will be asking you this question again soon. Lol.

https://carbuzz.com/news/alfa-romeo-...he-ferrari-488

Looks like this car will be announced next month. If offered with the standard quadrifoglio engine? I may jump ship? Seems so far the quad is doing well. Not too many problems. But the magic number is 4 years with foreign cars. Every time I see a Giulia, I regret getting cold feet. The best saloon I've ever driven. Awesome car!!

Seen a Giulia in red the other day. It's a color to die for. :yum: It just pops at you. :yum:

theres been a lot popping up by me. plus the Alfa dealer is right down from where i work.

Patience Grasshopper........all Italian machines have problems, although they are nice and beautiful when they work.....

I came up on one of these recently in a favorite driving area.
Absolutely gorgeous car.

He tried but, he couldn't lose me in the twisties. When we finally arrived at our destination, he was quite impressed with the way the Z held it's own...so was I:tup:

I will concede that he probably didn't know the road as well as I do:tup:

Sad day at FCA.

Sergio Marchionne, Chairman and CEO of Alfa's parent company Fiat Chrysler (as well as Chairman and CEO of Ferrari and Chairman of Maserati), and father to a lot of really good vehicles at each of these companies, was replaced for all of his corporate responsibilities due to a sudden and severe illness.

We would be without a lot of great automobiles were it not for his leadership.
Besides Giulia and its platform-sharing Stelvio SUV - all of the new and coming lineup at Alfa Romeo, actually - there's the Fiat 124 Spider, Dodge Hellcats and Demons, Maserati Levante, Jeep Track Hawk, F-488 and FXXK, along with countless successful upgrades to existing success stories like Wrangler and RAM. The man has performance cars in his blood.

There probably wouldn't even BE a Chrysler as we know it anymore, without his takeover and skilled leadership through its integration with FIAT.

That sucks big time. I am not much of a Dodge Chrysler fan but he sure has made them relevant again. Since their resurgence Chey and Ford had had to up their game as well as the European big two.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

He's in his late 60'. He had planned to step down next year. But he had shoulder surgery not long ago. And had some serious complications. He's still in ICU. And not doing good. :(

He past away. RIP. :(

https://www.foxbusiness.com/business...archionne-dies

https://jalopnik-com.cdn.ampproject....gli-1834511976

It's hard to see my dream sedan with so many DUMB issues. I don't understand why Alfa can't create reliability that 90% of the car industry can? Cuz I'd live to own a quadrifoglio!!

:icon17:

Giulia's are selling slow but ALFA is not giving up on the market. So glad. I think their support for all things sport is totally respectable and they've earned their spot in the enthusiast world. That's what it's all about... remembering your roots and fighting the good fight to maintain heritage.
And unlike NISSAN or MITSUBISHI or MAZDA etc... Alfa does not have multiple bread and butter vehicles to keep them afloat... But they're putting their heritage up for grabs like a real car company should.... despite that!

https://carbuzz.com/news/theres-stil...a-romeo-giulia

The only thing I will disagree with is Mazda. The Miata is the most sold and raced sports car period. They have there own race series and driver development program and it is the most affordable sports car of them all. What they lack is a halo car which one can argue...do they really need one!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Good point but...
If you ever owned or driven an RX 7. The answer is fvck yes... they need one!!

I bought a Miata in January to satisfy my track addiction until my Z is back up and running and I am a Mazda fan. I am married to a hairdresser so bring it on. LMAO and if Mazda was to make the RX 7 variant with a comparable power plant of the Supra it would be game over!

Thread Jack completed!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk