Assembly Bill No. AB 1824 - No Loud Cars Law

cossie1600 · 01-20-2019, 02:40 AM

3db is like 22% increase in noise. The difference between 80db to 90db is HUGE.

It's 2019, you don't need to make noise to generate power. Quiet down, find a way to make your power without ruining it for everyone. There is a reason why Laguna Seca cap most track days at 90DB, loud cars are annoying.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 09:50 AM

Sound requirements have been around for a long time with different bodies of water and boats. The equipment for getting an accurate measure of sound has gotten better as well. In the past keep the sound meter calibrated was as issue for LE. The biggest thing now for LE is getting the distance to the vehicle from where the get their reading. I am suspecting most will do it from a know location.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

3db is like 22% increase in noise. The difference between 80db to 90db is HUGE.

It's 2019, you don't need to make noise to generate power. Quiet down, find a way to make your power without ruining it for everyone. There is a reason why Laguna Seca cap most track days at 90DB, loud cars are annoying.

I think there is a point where we all agree that it is just noise a becomes more of an annoyance than pleasure. Ddbs are a logarithmic calculation and so each increase or decrease in dbs is significant because it is exponential. I am see several company making cut outs to deal with the noise issue.

"There is a reason why Laguna Seca cap most track days at 90DB"

This only had do with rich people moving in next to a track that had been there for a long time. Prime property and the owners have enough money and power to get the noise level changed. This has happened with flight paths for air planes and shooting ranges. I spent much of my career dealing with the NIMBY effect when the State owned shooting range had been there for decades and the city came to it and people where powerful enough to get some ranges shut down. Fortunately there was a law past to protect shooting ranges from unreasonable attacks from the public.

Rusty · 01-20-2019, 12:09 PM

Watching the video again. You should do the tests in the open. Not in the garage. Because the sound bouncing around. If they ever test you. Make sure it's in the open, not in an alley.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Watching the video again. You should do the tests in the open. Not in the garage. Because the sound bouncing around. If they ever test you. Make sure it's in the open, not in an alley.

Spot on! We had to make sure we were not in canyon or had a mountain or casino behind us. Really the only citations that I or others issued to watercraft operators were ones that were so over the top that they knew it. Most the time we just told people they had to get off the water.

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Rusty · 01-20-2019, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Spot on! We had to make sure we were not in canyon or had a mountain or casino behind us. Really the only citations that I or others issued to watercraft operators were ones that were so over the top that they knew it. Most the time we just told people they had to get off the water.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I'm a charter life member of the American Motorcycle Assoc. Years ago. I remember reading an article of the noise issue in the member magazine. The police in one town was pulling over bikes will loud pipes and testing them in an alley. Where they was getting really high dB readings. A bunch of the riders got together and file a lawsuit against the town. The riders won, but it took years and a ton of money.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

I'm a charter life member of the American Motorcycle Assoc. Years ago. I remember reading an article of the noise issue in the member magazine. The police in one town was pulling over bikes will loud pipes and testing them in an alley. Where they was getting really high dB readings. A bunch of the riders got together and file a lawsuit against the town. The riders won, but it took years and a ton of money.

Yep, this a bad example of community policing! If the real issue is street corner/intersection take overs it seems to me that more could have been done in the vain of community policing and hopefully that is coming.

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cossie1600 · 01-20-2019, 02:21 PM

I get it and you are not 100% wrong, but I am not going to defend a piece of **** 100hp Miata running open pipes. It’s not necessary and uncalled for. If people would just be reasonable about how they do things, We would have a lot less rules. I am happy my stock exhaust can stay under the dB meter reading and be just as fast as the guy with the fart cans next to me.

Oh yeah loud motorcycles are just there to satisfy their own egos, or they are trying to turn on the other guys around them. There is nothing worse than the rolling tards strolling though your neighborhood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I think there is a point where we all agree that it is just noise a becomes more of an annoyance than pleasure. Ddbs are a logarithmic calculation and so each increase or decrease in dbs is significant because it is exponential. I am see several company making cut outs to deal with the noise issue.

"There is a reason why Laguna Seca cap most track days at 90DB"

This only had do with rich people moving in next to a track that had been there for a long time. Prime property and the owners have enough money and power to get the noise level changed. This has happened with flight paths for air planes and shooting ranges. I spent much of my career dealing with the NIMBY effect when the State owned shooting range had been there for decades and the city came to it and people where powerful enough to get some ranges shut down. Fortunately there was a law past to protect shooting ranges from unreasonable attacks from the public.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

I get it and you are not 100% wrong, but I am not going to defend a piece of **** 100hp Miata running open pipes. It’s not necessary and uncalled for. If people would just be reasonable about how they do things, We would have a lot less rules. I am happy my stock exhaust can stay under the dB meter reading and be just as fast as the guy with the fart cans next to me.

Oh yeah loud motorcycles are just there to satisfy their own egos, or they are trying to turn on the other guys around them. There is nothing worse than the rolling tards strolling though your neighborhood.

I think we are more in agreement than what our comments may appear to state. I have a 150whp miata with that is straight piped. I just ran it at a track that has a 96db limit and it passed no problem. The guy I bought it from ran it at Laguna Seca with no issues as well. He also provided me with a silencer. Not hard to get the noises down to a reasonable level. I think the only difference we might have are what is the right db level and I don't know if we would be that far apart either.

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axmea? · 01-20-2019, 05:50 PM

Let's not get side tracked here. Were talking about AB 1824 where starting in Jan 2019 a fix it no longer applies for those cited with loud exhaust. CA VC 27151 states modded exhaust are ok provided it does not go past 95 dBs. 90 dBs on the track is something I wouldn't touch on and totally different. I'm also not going to get into discussing my choice of mods as an ethusiast and perhaps how my so called loud exhaust ruins it for everyone else. Since when did anyone consider FI exhaust to be noisy anyway?

Rusty, you're right, I'll test outside and get another reading. Not sure what the physical conditions and parameters are when state referees perform testing though. There may not be much of a difference considering how close the mic is to the tail pipe. We'll see..

My contention is any officer who cites an enthusiast for a loud exhaust is saying he or she is in violation and must therefore fix it and pay the fines associated with it. My challenge is, how did the officer determine that the vehicle's exhaust exceeds 95dBs. It is only when a true measurement is made using a calibrated meter that one can determine if one is in violation or not. In other words the enthusiast's are assumed to be in violation by the officer. Case in point, an officer cannot say you are legally drunk without performing certain tests. If you fail the tests, that's when they get you. In terms of dB ratings, it is a wild guess, an estimation made by an officer that the vehicle's exhaust exceeds 95dbs (measured 19.5 inches from the tail pipe, 45 degrees, and level to the tailpipe). There is nothing in the VC that says an estimation made by the officer will suffice. The testing procedure and the device is simply too precise for an officer to accurately state during a stop to make that determination.

Thoughts?

Rusty · 01-20-2019, 06:17 PM

If you get pulled over and the officer says you are too loud and doesn't have a meter to test you. You could then take it to court and you can ask when was the last time he had his hearing checked by a doctor. Put the burden of proof on the officer and his hearing. Everyone has a hearing lost over the years. Some more then others.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 07:16 PM

This a conversation best severed with alcohol lol. I am not in disagreement about how the law is enforced or not. There should be a standard procedure for testing a vehicle's exhaust sound level if the stop is made without an officer getting the sound from a position the meets with the standard set forth by the law.

On Rusty's point about an officer's hearing may not be a very strong case because if with my hearing I say it's loud well it is loud lol. The other way law enforcement agencies deal with such things is to apply training. They simply have a number of vehicles that are over and under the limit and test officers accuracy. Officers then will be told to only stop vehicles that are way above the limit if the situation doesn't allow for the sound to be captured properly with the sound equipment and then the vehicle should be tested per protocol.

Issues for law enforcement are getting all of this to line up. Also they have deal with how long they detaining the operator. They cannot hold you forever or make you take unreasonable steps to get to a conclusion. Believe me these type of policies or laws that come down from on high are not popular with those that have to do the enforcement as well. I have real world experience with laws such as this and there is no win for reasonable people. I don't consider the FI exhaust to be over the top but when laws like this happen....innocent people are turned into criminals!

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axmea? · 01-20-2019, 08:04 PM

I'm feeling good about this Bob.

Let me know ahead of time if you'll be in the area.

Hotrodz · 01-20-2019, 08:06 PM

Will do brother...it has been way to long!

JARblue · 01-22-2019, 12:27 AM

I just ask the officer to kindly place his/her ear down next to my exhaust pipe. Then if their hearing is impaired permanently when I peel off they can write me a ticket if they catch up to me.

01-20-2019, 02:40 AM	#46 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	3db is like 22% increase in noise. The difference between 80db to 90db is HUGE. It's 2019, you don't need to make noise to generate power. Quiet down, find a way to make your power without ruining it for everyone. There is a reason why Laguna Seca cap most track days at 90DB, loud cars are annoying. CRiZO likes this.

01-20-2019, 09:50 AM	#47 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	Sound requirements have been around for a long time with different bodies of water and boats. The equipment for getting an accurate measure of sound has gotten better as well. In the past keep the sound meter calibrated was as issue for LE. The biggest thing now for LE is getting the distance to the vehicle from where the get their reading. I am suspecting most will do it from a know location. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

01-20-2019, 12:09 PM	#49 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,172 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	Watching the video again. You should do the tests in the open. Not in the garage. Because the sound bouncing around. If they ever test you. Make sure it's in the open, not in an alley. Hotrodz and redondoaveb like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-20-2019, 05:50 PM	#55 (permalink)
axmea? A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,235 Drives: WELL ZED PW 6MT Rep Power: 53241	Let's not get side tracked here. Were talking about AB 1824 where starting in Jan 2019 a fix it no longer applies for those cited with loud exhaust. CA VC 27151 states modded exhaust are ok provided it does not go past 95 dBs. 90 dBs on the track is something I wouldn't touch on and totally different. I'm also not going to get into discussing my choice of mods as an ethusiast and perhaps how my so called loud exhaust ruins it for everyone else. Since when did anyone consider FI exhaust to be noisy anyway? Rusty, you're right, I'll test outside and get another reading. Not sure what the physical conditions and parameters are when state referees perform testing though. There may not be much of a difference considering how close the mic is to the tail pipe. We'll see.. My contention is any officer who cites an enthusiast for a loud exhaust is saying he or she is in violation and must therefore fix it and pay the fines associated with it. My challenge is, how did the officer determine that the vehicle's exhaust exceeds 95dBs. It is only when a true measurement is made using a calibrated meter that one can determine if one is in violation or not. In other words the enthusiast's are assumed to be in violation by the officer. Case in point, an officer cannot say you are legally drunk without performing certain tests. If you fail the tests, that's when they get you. In terms of dB ratings, it is a wild guess, an estimation made by an officer that the vehicle's exhaust exceeds 95dbs (measured 19.5 inches from the tail pipe, 45 degrees, and level to the tailpipe). There is nothing in the VC that says an estimation made by the officer will suffice. The testing procedure and the device is simply too precise for an officer to accurately state during a stop to make that determination. Thoughts? Rusty, OTW Z-Boy and redondoaveb like this. __________________ >MyZ's Album< NISMO Convert/ECUTEK/Takeda CAI/F.I. HFC NR CB Carbon/F.I. 34 Row Oil Cooler/4.08 Final Drive /Powertrix+Swifts/Hotchkis/SPL/Whiteline/TWM/Zoom Engineering/EVO-R/AeroJacket Vented CF Fenders + CF Spoiler/Avant Garde-WORK/NST/Morimoto Halo/STi Clear Lenses/Carbon Signal Automotive/RJM Performance/ZSpeed Clutch Flywheel CSC delete

01-20-2019, 06:17 PM	#56 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,172 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684437	If you get pulled over and the officer says you are too loud and doesn't have a meter to test you. You could then take it to court and you can ask when was the last time he had his hearing checked by a doctor. Put the burden of proof on the officer and his hearing. Everyone has a hearing lost over the years. Some more then others. axmea? and redondoaveb like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-20-2019, 07:16 PM	#57 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	This a conversation best severed with alcohol lol. I am not in disagreement about how the law is enforced or not. There should be a standard procedure for testing a vehicle's exhaust sound level if the stop is made without an officer getting the sound from a position the meets with the standard set forth by the law. On Rusty's point about an officer's hearing may not be a very strong case because if with my hearing I say it's loud well it is loud lol. The other way law enforcement agencies deal with such things is to apply training. They simply have a number of vehicles that are over and under the limit and test officers accuracy. Officers then will be told to only stop vehicles that are way above the limit if the situation doesn't allow for the sound to be captured properly with the sound equipment and then the vehicle should be tested per protocol. Issues for law enforcement are getting all of this to line up. Also they have deal with how long they detaining the operator. They cannot hold you forever or make you take unreasonable steps to get to a conclusion. Believe me these type of policies or laws that come down from on high are not popular with those that have to do the enforcement as well. I have real world experience with laws such as this and there is no win for reasonable people. I don't consider the FI exhaust to be over the top but when laws like this happen....innocent people are turned into criminals! Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk JARblue, Rusty and axmea? like this. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

01-20-2019, 08:04 PM	#58 (permalink)
axmea? A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,235 Drives: WELL ZED PW 6MT Rep Power: 53241	I'm feeling good about this Bob. Let me know ahead of time if you'll be in the area. Hotrodz likes this. __________________ >MyZ's Album< NISMO Convert/ECUTEK/Takeda CAI/F.I. HFC NR CB Carbon/F.I. 34 Row Oil Cooler/4.08 Final Drive /Powertrix+Swifts/Hotchkis/SPL/Whiteline/TWM/Zoom Engineering/EVO-R/AeroJacket Vented CF Fenders + CF Spoiler/Avant Garde-WORK/NST/Morimoto Halo/STi Clear Lenses/Carbon Signal Automotive/RJM Performance/ZSpeed Clutch Flywheel CSC delete

01-20-2019, 08:06 PM	#59 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	Will do brother...it has been way to long! __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

01-22-2019, 12:27 AM	#60 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	I just ask the officer to kindly place his/her ear down next to my exhaust pipe. Then if their hearing is impaired permanently when I peel off they can write me a ticket if they catch up to me. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

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