Bikers Attack Driver After Accident: Caught on Tape

Z_ealot

Will have to wait until I get home can't do that at work here

Red__Zed

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ray Kelly is the origin of that claim, and his statement was qualified with an "apparently." He also has a strongly vested interest in getting as many people charged as possible, given his position. It doesn't mean it's not true, but until there's something else backing it up, I will remain open-minded.

Red__Zed

I'm ruling nothing out. What makes you think I am?

Cmike2780

lol

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Chuck33079

We'll just have to see how it plays out in court. What I believe based on what we've seen so far makes me think this is pretty clear self defense. You seem to disagree. It'll be interesting to see what additional information leaks out. I still want a transcript of the 911 call.

I'll bet you a six-pack the driver walks on all criminal and civil issues- you in?

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Red__Zed

I guess passive-aggressiveness is your only option.

I'm no friend of guys like these bikers, and I'd prefer if the NYPD would toss them all in jail for their recorded behaviors. But following the law regarding escalation of force is very important.

Red__Zed

I think it hinges on details that are not yet available to us.

I've already stated numerous times the driver will walk on criminal charges unless something new comes up. Civil comes down to luck and who gets a better lawyer.

911 transcripts and timestamps will be telling as well. It's too hard to judge until those other details are out. Most of what either side did could be attributed to self-defense/bystander fleeing felon pursuit with a good lawyer (and one or two critical facts).

SouthArk370Z

meh None of us have all the facts, so I can't get too upset with any theories that conflict with mine.

And this is an Intertubes forum, not a court of law. Regardless of what the law is (and assuming my theory is correct), I think the guy in the RR was justified to react the way he did in that situation. His only option was to get away from the guys. The riders had blocked a major road so that his only path was over those bikes and people. The riders intentionally put themselves in danger. YMMV

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DEpointfive0

Perfect, thank you.


I'm sharing these on FB

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Tazicon

This is like picking a fight with a guy, getting beat up then you sue the guy you picked the fight with. This whole thing should have been stopped long before it escalated. The mom suing should look at her son and the way she raised him then sue herself for having been a crappy parent. If her son was raised right he wouldn't have been a part of those stupid actions.

Chuck33079

Agreed, I was just suggesting a friendly wager of a mid-grade six-pack to whoever ends up closer to the final outcome.

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ElVee

I think a *reasonable* person, based on the video evidence, can conclude that the Range Rover driver feared for his life and the lives of his a family and made a move to get himself out of that situation. A situation the bikers continued to force and escalate. We even have plenty of raw footage to support this. And it's not a defense to say he couldn't have been killed in the short period until the others intervened. All it takes is a helmet or other weapon or even a boot to the head and/or a crash to the pavement that can take a life.

Things do change slightly if there is video footage and/or third party witnesses about the RR cutting off the bikers. Even still, there is a certain amount of restraint and responsibility that the bikers should have exerted. If such evidence comes to light, it just means as others have said that the DA has far less interest in this case for either side.

I saw someone claim that the RR guy shouldn't have pursued vigilante justice. If the RR driver did cut off a biker, then it's ok for the bikers to have pursued same?

In the end, it's about what a reasonable person would conclude, and I'd have moved to get myself and my family out of that situation which was clearly going from bad to very, very bad. Me, against a group of people with clear violent intent.

Can you imagine how your life would have been changed right now if you were the RR driver or his family?

Chuck33079

The only thing missing from the videos was one guy yelling "Worldstar!" every five seconds.

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Red__Zed

That's been my point since the beginning, although perhaps not as well stated.

The initial altercation becomes the major turning point. If something comes up showing a tire slash at the first stop (or other reason to fear for his life), the driver is in the clear. There's a possibility of a civil suit regardless, which will be interesting to see how it goes. There's also no reason the biker could not sue the tire-slashing guy as well...maybe get a 2 for 1.

I'm not sure how NY treats SD manslaughter. Will have to dig up some precedent. Running over the guy is similar to shooting a bystander when you get mugged.

Red__Zed

That's actually largely irrelevant. The bikers cannot use it as a defense as any immediate danger would have passed and it does little to change whether the RR driver was acting in self-defense when he sped off.