Bikers Attack Driver After Accident: Caught on Tape

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 08:48 AM

The guys on bikes were complete idiots, but the situation was unnecessarily escalated by the RR driver (at least by all appearances from the video).

Running someone over is deadly force, and you can't escalate to deadly force "because the guys look like they're in a gang." Especially when the guy he ran over had been uninvolved the situation (again, by all appearances). You can't justify running someone over because they aren't a good person.

Cmike2780 · 10-02-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The guys on bikes were complete idiots, but the situation was unnecessarily escalated by the RR driver (at least by all appearances from the video).

Running someone over is deadly force, and you can't escalate to deadly force "because the guys look like they're in a gang." Especially when the guy he ran over had been uninvolved the situation (again, by all appearances). You can't justify running someone over because they aren't a good person.

What you didn't see is them hitting the Range Rover and slashing his front tire. You see 50 guys on bikes riding in a group stopping you on the highway, your first thought isn't going to be hmmmm...."I wonder what this nice gentleman on the motorcycle is going to say"

You can certainly justify running over someone who forcefully stops you in the middle of a highway and starts attacking you. The law works both ways. Kind of funny how a lot of them are crying foul and want the guy in the Range Rover arrested yet showed complete disregard for any laws in dozens of videos posted online.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

What you didn't see is them hitting the Range Rover and slashing his front tire. You see 50 guys on bikes riding in a group stopping you on the highway, your first thought isn't going to be hmmmm...."I wonder what this nice gentleman on the motorcycle is going to say"

You can certainly justify running over someone who forcefully stops you in the middle of a highway and starts attacking you. The law works both ways. Kind of funny how a lot of them are crying foul and want the guy in the Range Rover arrested yet showed complete disregard for any laws in dozens of videos posted online.

His reaction was completely justified by the situation. I don't feel too bad for Stunter McCrippleson since being a part of a mob tends to end badly for people, even if they aren't the worst one in the mob.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

What you didn't see is them hitting the Range Rover and slashing his front tire. You see 50 guys on bikes riding in a group stopping you on the highway, your first thought isn't going to be hmmmm...."I wonder what this nice gentleman on the motorcycle is going to say"

You can certainly justify running over someone who forcefully stops you in the middle of a highway and starts attacking you. The law works both ways. Kind of funny how a lot of them are crying foul and want the guy in the Range Rover arrested yet showed complete disregard for any laws in dozens of videos posted online.

I've not seen anything backing up those claims of the hitting/tire slashing in the first incident. I'm not sure how you can tell your tires are being slashed from inside a car, either.

If that was happening, you can certainly change the equation, though I'm not a lawyer and unclear on where the transition is. Legally, running someone over is more or less equivalent to shooting them. Could he have shot the biker he ran over?

Breaking one law doesn't necessarily give someone else carte blanche to infringe on your rights. The fact that I'm driving like a jerk doesn't mean that you can hit and run, and then run over my friend. Driving over someone like that requires that you have a reasonable fear for your life/safety.

Every state has their own laws on deadly force, but I'm pretty sure NYs are not as favorable (as, say, Florida).

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I've not seen anything backing up those claims of the hitting/tire slashing in the first incident. I'm not sure how you can tell your tires are being slashed from inside a car, either.

If that was happening, you can certainly change the equation, though I'm not a lawyer and unclear on where the transition is. Legally, running someone over is more or less equivalent to shooting them. Could he have shot the biker he ran over?

Breaking one law doesn't necessarily give someone else carte blanche to infringe on your rights. The fact that I'm driving like a jerk doesn't mean that you can hit and run, and then run over my friend. Driving over someone like that requires that you have a reasonable fear for your life/safety.

Every state has their own laws on deadly force, but I'm pretty sure NYs are not as favorable (as, say, Florida).

If there were any question about the legality of the driver using deadly force, I'm sure that the driver would have been arrested and charged along with the bikers. He has not been. Only two of the bikers have been arrested so far.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

If there were any question about the legality of the driver using deadly force, I'm sure that the driver would have been arrested and charged along with the bikers. He has not been. Only two of the bikers have been arrested so far.

Arrest decisions are made based on public opinion and officer discretion, not necessarily the letter of the law.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Arrest decisions are made based on public opinion and officer discretion, not necessarily the letter of the law.

True, but in most cases they usually arrest and charge everybody, and drop charges as evidence comes to light. Who knows. The NYPD is a strange organization.

In other news, the squid who became a speed bump is exactly the kind of rider you think he is- Lawrence man seriously injured in NYC incident involving SUV and motorcyclists - Metro - The Boston Globe

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

True, but in most cases they usually arrest and charge everybody, and drop charges as evidence comes to light. Who knows. The NYPD is a strange organization.

In other news, the squid who became a speed bump is exactly the kind of rider you think he is- Lawrence man seriously injured in NYC incident involving SUV and motorcyclists - Metro - The Boston Globe

They have checks and balances that are designed to limit rushing to judgment. Charging and releasing offers little benefit and is much more expensive than only charging those they believe can/should be convicted.

SouthArk370Z · 10-02-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

If there were any question about the legality of the driver using deadly force, I'm sure that the driver would have been arrested and charged along with the bikers. He has not been. Only two of the bikers have been arrested so far.

That could change if new evidence pops up but that seems unlikely to me. But still possible. I would not be at all surprised if Mr RR ends up in court on a civil complaint by the guy that got run over. With today's legal system, the rider just may win.

(Remember OJ? Not guilty of criminal charges but they hammered him in civil court.)

Last I heard, they arrested one guy, another turned himself in and was arrested, and they are looking for a third guy. All involved in the beating at the end of the chase. But it's been about 10 hours since I looked.

From what I've seen (more than likely an incomplete picture), Mr RR did what he had to do to protect himself and his family. If I see anything that contradicts that, I'll change my mind. Until then, kudos to Mr RR for effectively protecting his family.

As for the rider that got run over: too bad, so sad. From what I can tell, all the riders were driving in a very dangerous manner (see some of the vids from earlier in the ride) and were acting as a group. Looks to me like Mr RR had every reason to believe that all the riders were going to attack. I can only hope that I would be able to respond as quickly and decisively Mr RR did and save myself and my family.

DEpointfive0 · 10-02-2013, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

That could change if new evidence pops up but that seems unlikely to me. But still possible. I would not be at all surprised if Mr RR ends up in court on a civil complaint by the guy that got run over. With today's legal system, the rider just may win.

(Remember OJ? Not guilty of criminal charges but they hammered him in civil court.)

Last I heard, they arrested one guy, another turned himself in and was arrested, and they are looking for a third guy. All involved in the beating at the end of the chase. But it's been about 10 hours since I looked.

From what I've seen (more than likely an incomplete picture), Mr RR did what he had to do to protect himself and his family. If I see anything that contradicts that, I'll change my mind. Until then, kudos to Mr RR for effectively protecting his family.

As for the rider that got run over: too bad, so sad. From what I can tell, all the riders were driving in a very dangerous manner (see some of the vids from earlier in the ride) and were acting as a group. Looks to me like Mr RR had every reason to believe that all the riders were going to attack. I can only hope that I would be able to respond as quickly and decisively Mr RR did and save myself and my family.

Exactly,

Cmike2780 · 10-02-2013, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I've not seen anything backing up those claims of the hitting/tire slashing in the first incident. I'm not sure how you can tell your tires are being slashed from inside a car, either.

If that was happening, you can certainly change the equation, though I'm not a lawyer and unclear on where the transition is. Legally, running someone over is more or less equivalent to shooting them. Could he have shot the biker he ran over?

Breaking one law doesn't necessarily give someone else carte blanche to infringe on your rights. The fact that I'm driving like a jerk doesn't mean that you can hit and run, and then run over my friend. Driving over someone like that requires that you have a reasonable fear for your life/safety.

Every state has their own laws on deadly force, but I'm pretty sure NYs are not as favorable (as, say, Florida).

Here

It was definitely at the first incident. The tire is gone at the last incident. Look at the pic in the article. It doesn't just disappear when you slash it.

You see a guy with a knife going to the front of your car....well.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

Here

It was definitely at the first incident. The tire is gone at the last incident. Look at the pic in the article. You see a guy with a knife going to the front of your car....well.

I'd assume the TPMS sensor told him as well. Thank God for run flats.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

Here

It was definitely at the first incident. The tire is gone at the last incident. Look at the pic in the article. You see a guy with a knife going to the front of your car....well.

There's nothing indicating when the tire was slashed (or that is was slashed at all) in the video/photo evidence. It was claimed in a press release but there's little to back it up (that has been released).

Neither one of us has all the facts here and I expect they will trickle out over time. Best not to rush to judgment.

Cmike2780 · 10-02-2013, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

There's nothing indicating when the tire was slashed (or that is was slashed at all) in the video/photo evidence. It was claimed in a press release but there's little to back it up (that has been released).

Neither one of us has all the facts here and I expect they will trickle out over time. Best not to rush to judgment.

geeze...look at the picture.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

geeze...look at the picture.

what do you purport that the picture shows?

10-02-2013, 08:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	The guys on bikes were complete idiots, but the situation was unnecessarily escalated by the RR driver (at least by all appearances from the video). Running someone over is deadly force, and you can't escalate to deadly force "because the guys look like they're in a gang." Especially when the guy he ran over had been uninvolved the situation (again, by all appearances). You can't justify running someone over because they aren't a good person. NissanGuy23 likes this.

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