Bikers Attack Driver After Accident: Caught on Tape

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Honestly, in a respectful way, I'd like to disagree, if YOU were in the RR, let's even say without your wife and kid. And you felt your life was being threatened because these guys swarmed you and were hitting your car and trying to open the door...
Wouldn't you do the same? Without general regard for maybe hitting an "innocent" biker?

Or would you just sit there and catch the initial beating?

Protected by a cage, I'd sit through it until there was something that clearly and directly demonstrated a reason to fear for your life/safety.

You're a gun owner so I know you're familiar with the need to stay above reproach and only iterate to deadly force when there are no other options. A car is no different than a gun or knife.

From the video, they did not try to open the door until the first stop after the altercation.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Exactly. And legally, he shouldn't have been there anyway since he didn't have a license.

Driving without a license is insufficient to characterize someone as being at fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

It goes way beyond association. It was active participation in reckless behaviors that endangered others. Apparently you haven't seen the videos from earlier in the day when the riders were doing wheelies in heavy traffic and veering over into oncoming traffic. I'm assuming (not a legal opinion) they didn't stop when they got near the RR. When you do dangerous ****, you sometimes get hurt. Ie, if you fuque with the bull, you get the horn.

I've seen some. I haven't seen anything where the rider in question was engaged (though I'd appreciate a link). And, such behaviors are not relevant to the case in question. Whether or not someone drives like a jerk is largely irrelevant to the facts of the situation. There's also the question of the driver's a priori knowledge.

Unless they went out that day planning to treat annoying drivers like that, you would have a tough time sticking him with the behaviors of the group.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Protected by a cage, I'd sit through it until there was something that clearly and directly demonstrated a reason to fear for your life/safety.

You're a gun owner so I know you're familiar with the need to stay above reproach and only iterate to deadly force when there are no other options. A car is no different than a gun or knife.

From the video, they did not try to open the door until the first stop after the altercation.

Being forced to stop on the road by a pack of bikers, one of which just cut you off and brake checked you to a stop and caused a collision while you have your wife and daughter in the car clearly and directly demonstrates a reason to fear for my life/safety in my book. We'll see when all of this hits the courts, though. I may be wrong and RR driver is at fault, at least in some part. I don't think so, but I'm open to the possibility that a judge may see things differently.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Unless they went out that day planning to treat annoying drivers like that, you would have a tough time sticking him with the behaviors of the group.

There's a precedent for them ******* with cars that bother them. I posted it earlier in the thread. That may not show their intent, but it establishes a pattern of behavior.

I'm a little confused- are you arguing that the bikers aren't at fault for the escalation of the situation that ended in injuries, or are you just playing devil's advocate?

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Being forced to stop on the road by a pack of bikers, one of which just cut you off and brake checked you to a stop and caused a collision while you have your wife and daughter in the car clearly and directly demonstrates a reason to fear for my life/safety in my book. We'll see when all of this hits the courts, though. I may be wrong and RR driver is at fault, at least in some part. I don't think so, but I'm open to the possibility that a judge may see things differently.

Rear-ending somebody is a 100% at-fault situation in NY. Brake checking is technically irrelevant (although the brake checking driver can be cited separately). The law was established due to the thought that if you're following at a safe distance you should never rear end anyone, but it breaks down in extreme cases (ie, you get cut off).

I'm willing to bet the bikers receive a couple of traffic citations, the driver receives his insurance-bumping rear-end at-fault, and then we go to civil court. There's very little evidence as of now that provides opportunity for criminal convictions (on either side).

If evidence of knife use on either the tires or the person comes up, everything gets turned on it's head.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

There's a precedent for them ******* with cars that bother them. I posted it earlier in the thread. That may not show their intent, but it establishes a pattern of behavior.

I'm a little confused- are you arguing that the bikers aren't at fault for the escalation of the situation that ended in injuries, or are you just playing devil's advocate?

Both sides are clearly at fault for various stages. I'm pointing out that a number of conclusions are being jumped to that are not supported by the evidence available, and the behavior of folks in a group cannot be used to characterize the whole.

SouthArk370Z · 10-02-2013, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

From the video, they did not try to open the door until the first stop after the altercation.

I haven't seen a good shot of the RR right after he bumped the rear of the bike that squatted in front of him. If we're going to guess what happened, how about the driver saw someone pull a knife or gun? My point being, there are a lot of gaps and we don't know the whole story yet. But, from what I've seen/heard, the RR driver was justified in what he did. I have an open mind and am willing to look at any evidence, even if it doesn't support my current theory.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Rear-ending somebody is a 100% at-fault situation in NY. Brake checking is technically irrelevant (although the brake checking driver can be cited separately). The law was established due to the thought that if you're following at a safe distance you should never rear end anyone, but it breaks down in extreme cases (ie, you get cut off).

I'd argue this was one of those cases, but a court will decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I'm willing to bet the bikers receive a couple of traffic citations, the driver receives his insurance-bumping rear-end at-fault, and then we go to civil court. There's very little evidence as of now that provides opportunity for criminal convictions (on either side).
If evidence of knife use on either the tires or the person comes up, everything gets turned on it's head.

There's a lot of felonies getting slapped on the arrested bikers. Are you suggesting they'll all be dropped?

jcosta79 · 10-02-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

driver is ok thankfully from what i hear just bruises and lacerations on his face, but im more worried about the bike rider the driver ran over as from all accounts that particular biker was just going to check on his buddy that did the brake check and make sure he was ok and wasnt involved in the initial assault on the range rover. i just hope he makes it out alive although from what they're saying he's most likely going to be paralyzed if he makes it, just sucks he chose to hang around with a bunch of dumbasses.

Yeah, and I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you if you believe that one!

If your friends decide to rob a bank while you happen to be in the car with them, well guess what? Your *** is going to jail.

Those guys should be thankful this didn't happen in TX. There would be a lot of dead bikers on the highway and their families would have gotten invoices to pay for the cleanup.

Z_ealot · 10-02-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Protected by a cage, I'd sit through it until there was something that clearly and directly demonstrated a reason to fear for your life/safety.

You're a gun owner so I know you're familiar with the need to stay above reproach and only iterate to deadly force when there are no other options. A car is no different than a gun or knife.

From the video, they did not try to open the door until the first stop after the altercation.

As stated beforeYou have to look really closely and have the video in hd and full screened to see one of the bikers trying to rip the guys door open at the beginning of the video

theDreamer · 10-02-2013, 11:19 AM

Some interesting photos.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

I haven't seen a good shot of the RR right after he bumped the rear of the bike that squatted in front of him. If we're going to guess what happened, how about the driver saw someone pull a knife or gun? My point being, there are a lot of gaps and we don't know the whole story yet. But, from what I've seen/heard, the RR driver was justified in what he did. I have an open mind and am willing to look at any evidence, even if it doesn't support my current theory.

If he was even claiming that happened, my stance would change. The only person I've seen claiming that the tires were slashed in the initial encounter happens to be completely uninvolved.

Chuck33079 · 10-02-2013, 11:21 AM

‘Road rage’ biker may be paralyzed | New York Post

For the most part, this backs up the narrative most of us seem to have arrived at. Including slashed tires at one point in the chase.

jcosta79 · 10-02-2013, 11:21 AM

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

As stated beforeYou have to look really closely and have the video in hd and full screened to see one of the bikers trying to rip the guys door open at the beginning of the video

can you post a screenshot with an MSpaint circle on what you are talking about? Videos are tough to see detail on.

10-02-2013, 11:19 AM	#116 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Some interesting photos. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

10-02-2013, 11:21 AM	#118 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	‘Road rage’ biker may be paralyzed \| New York Post For the most part, this backs up the narrative most of us seem to have arrived at. Including slashed tires at one point in the chase. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

10-02-2013, 11:21 AM	#119 (permalink)
jcosta79 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: N/A Posts: 1,430 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 15	Initial Z and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ 2012 PW NISMO #0559 - GT Spec Brace Kit - Swift Springs - ARK TP & Invidia CBE K&N Intake - UpRev Tune - 15mm Z1 Spacers & Studs - StopTech Slotted Rotors & SS Lines - ZSpeed CMAK with Stage 2 Clutch and Lightweight Flywheel

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