Bikers Attack Driver After Accident: Caught on Tape

Cmike2780 · 10-02-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

I remember not too long ago when many people said that a person(nameless) had NO right to protect himself after his nose was broken & head busted up.

Ye, if the bikers started beating him through the window, I wouldn't blame him from trying to get away. I only heard that he might have been threatened

...you really went there. Agree or not, that case also concluded with a not guilty verdict.

A reasonable perceived threat of death or bodily harm is enough for you to try and get away. It kind of sounds like you're saying they had to physically harm the driver before he's allowed to defend himself and his family.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

...you really went there. Agree or not, that case also concluded with a not guilty verdict.

A reasonable perceived threat of death or bodily harm is enough for you to try and get away. It kind of sounds like you're saying they had to physically harm the driver before he's allowed to defend himself and his family.

The big difference in this case is who he hurt, with the added uncertainty on what the initial altercation consisted of.

You can't shoot guy 2 because guy 1 threatened you.

cossie1600 · 10-02-2013, 04:07 PM

In Texas they operate differently

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

In Texas they operate differently

Texas has similar laws, as anyone who was ever obtained a CCW license there can readily share.

Cmike2780 · 10-02-2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The big difference in this case is who he hurt, with the added uncertainty on what the initial altercation consisted of.

You can't shoot guy 2 because guy 1 threatened you.

...and if guy 2 is an accomplice?

Considering the one who got hit as merely a bystander is also an uncertainty. We obviously don't know exactly what the RR guy was feeling or who he saw as a threat or who was an actual threat. I'm just saying it's plausible that the RR guy felt they were all going to attack him. It's also plausible to conclude that the motorcycle guy who's in a coma was one of the riders that used his bike/body to detain the SUV in the middle of the highway.

jcosta79 · 10-02-2013, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Texas has similar laws, as anyone who was ever obtained a CCW license there can readily share.

In Texas I can shoot anyone that's on my property. I don't have to be in any "danger".

I'm sure the laws in NY are NOT the same.

Tribalpinoy91 · 10-02-2013, 04:15 PM

Man thats crazy. I would of felt threatened and would have reacted the same way as the guy in the RR. Glad to be a PA Resident concealed weapons permit baaziing.

jcosta79 · 10-02-2013, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The big difference in this case is who he hurt, with the added uncertainty on what the initial altercation consisted of.

You can't shoot guy 2 because guy 1 threatened you.

Yes you can if they are committing the crime together.

Just because the driver of the getaway car didn't actually rob the bank, the cops can still shoot him when they all try to escape.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcosta79

In Texas I can shoot anyone that's on my property. I don't have to be in any "danger".

I'm sure the laws in NY are NOT the same.

Castle doctrine is irrelevant to an altercation on public roads, and you are terrifyingly unfamiliar with Texas law.

TX allows for you to use force as necessary to stop trespassing, but you may not escalate to deadly force unless required.

In addition, the castle doctrine protects your habitation (which precedent indicates as covering a forced entry to or removal from a vehicle), but not "property" as you state. Detached garages and land have been declared as not covered under the law.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcosta79

Yes you can if they are committing the crime together.

Just because the driver of the getaway car didn't actually rob the bank, the cops can still shoot him when they all try to escape.

What crime did the biker that got run over commit?

(Driving a getaway car is a felony by itself, nevermind the precipitate involvement in conspiracy).

If they can find evidence that crushed-femur-dude had been involved in planning this (say, they decided they'd rob some dude by getting in an accident and slashing his tires), then he becomes an accomplice. Otherwise, the connection is tenuous.

Huck · 10-02-2013, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Back in Dallas, a group of bikers closed down the 75 Freeway, a MAJOR freeway leading in/out of Dallas. I lived in the center of down town and took the 75 often to go to school, shopping, whatever.
Fast forward a year, and there were threats that the same bikers would close the 75 again. One day during the time that we had the news forecasts, there was an officer outside our apartment, this is how the conversation went.
DE.50-"So, if I'm on the 75 and they close the freeway ahead of me, what do I do?"
Officer-"You got a gun?"
DE-"Yeah, why?"
O-"Good, carry it, they stop in front of you car shoot them, you got a big car?"
DE-"Um... Yeah..." (I had a Maxima at the time)
O-"Gooooood, get your gun, SHOOT the bikers and run them over, then when you're back home, call the police, tell us you killed a few of the bikers, and give me a call, I got you covered" (and he gave me his business card)
DE-I laughed and said "Really?"
O-"Yeah, ****'em, shoot'em. Have a good night" (and he left)

It was weird/awesome at the same time

One of the best stories I've heard in a while, there should be more cops like that.

I survived Zdayz 2013... (barely)

jcosta79 · 10-02-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Castle doctrine is irrelevant to an altercation on public roads, and you are terrifyingly unfamiliar with Texas law.

TX allows for you to use force as necessary to stop trespassing, but you may not escalate to deadly force unless required.

In addition, the castle doctrine protects your habitation (which precedent indicates as covering a forced entry to or removal from a vehicle), but not "property" as you state. Detached garages and land have been declared as not covered under the law.

1. I was not trying to say it was the same as something that occurred on public roads. I was merely giving an example of the difference between two state's laws.

2. Here's everything you need to know about castle doctrine (or whatever you call it) here in TX: Everyone here is armed and everyone here WILL shoot you if they find you in their home. If you want to argue legal technicalities with a TX homeowner pointing a gun at you, go right ahead.

ElVee · 10-02-2013, 04:55 PM

Texas has the "Law of Parties," when it comes to felony murder cases. Essentially, if a second person is a "party" to the one who commits the murder, that second person can be convicted of murder as well.

jcosta79 · 10-02-2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

What crime did the biker that got run over commit?

This is article 120.14 of the NEW YORK penal law:

Quote:

S 120.14 Menacing in the second degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the second degree when:
1. He or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person
in reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death
by displaying a deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or what appears to
be a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or other firearm; or
2. He or she repeatedly follows a person or engages in a course of
conduct or repeatedly commits acts over a period of time intentionally
placing or attempting to place another person in reasonable fear of
physical injury, serious physical injury or death; or
3. He or she commits the crime of menacing in the third degree in
violation of that part of a duly served order of protection, or such
order which the defendant has actual knowledge of because he or she was
present in court when such order was issued, pursuant to article eight
of the family court act, section 530.12 of the criminal procedure law,
or an order of protection issued by a court of competent jurisdiction in
another state, territorial or tribal jurisdiction, which directed the
respondent or defendant to stay away from the person or persons on whose
behalf the order was issued.

Now please go troll somewhere else. Adults are talking.

DEpointfive0 · 10-02-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElVee

Texas has the "Law of Parties," when it comes to felony murder cases. Essentially, if a second person is a "party" to the one who commits the murder, that second person can be convicted of murder as well.

I believe a lot of states are like that, no?

Associate to the crime or something?

10-02-2013, 04:07 PM	#258 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	In Texas they operate differently DEpointfive0 likes this.

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10-02-2013, 04:15 PM	#262 (permalink)
Tribalpinoy91 Track Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 607 Drives: 370z PW Rep Power: 14	Man thats crazy. I would of felt threatened and would have reacted the same way as the guy in the RR. Glad to be a PA Resident concealed weapons permit baaziing.

10-02-2013, 04:55 PM	#268 (permalink)
ElVee Track Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Iowa Posts: 750 Drives: 13 370z 7at t+s grey Rep Power: 16	Texas has the "Law of Parties," when it comes to felony murder cases. Essentially, if a second person is a "party" to the one who commits the murder, that second person can be convicted of murder as well.