[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

nis350

guess the $35K mark-up doesn't help....

the entire car market is kinda f'ed with all these crazy mark-ups from the stealerships. saw some C8 Z06 with $50 to $60k mark-ups.

Bonzo

More funny news. The yellow Z is STILL sitting up at the auction house! Saw it this morning. That means nobody, not even at auction, wanted the thing for 2 auction cycles now.

I hope people who paid markup for their cars have a lot of money to burn because my gut tells me that was money better put down a toilet. My gut tells me Zs will be sitting around at dealers collecting dust very soon. Once the initial demand dies down, dealers will have a hard time selling them without big discounts. These are all just my opinions of course. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

I'm really not sure Nissan did themselves any favors with this car. I find it kind of sad really.

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vtec to vvel

In a "normal" market, your comment on mark-up's would be somewhat valid. In the current market (post-COVID, Feds raising rates, Feds fighting inflation, supply chain issues, production issues, etc.), there is still limited supply and the demand is still a bit higher than the amount of inventory that is available.

One of the biggest items that is still facing a shortage is semi-conductor chips. Neon gas is needed for production of these. Guess who supplies 70% of the global supply for Neon gas? Ukraine, in which they are currently fighting a war. Guess what is not happening? Production of Neon gas. So guess what chain of events this causes? Shortage of semi-conductors and, subsequently, cars. What happens when you have more demand than supply? Pricing goes up. Dealers are NOT making as much profit as you think, esp. when you include inflation into the equation.

The other side of this equation is timing. With the Feds fighting inflation by raising rates, it's going to be alot more expensive to borrow. And with inflation eroding buying power, your money won't go as far as it used to. Companies still have to meet their bottom line, and when production costs go up, they in turn have to relay these expenses onto the consumer. Consumers now are focused (or should be) on necessities vs. wants.

I think it's a bad time to get into unnecessary debt and a bad time for companies to come out with a new product and hoping it sells.

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nis350

I hear you... We're in the new normal relatively speaking. Inflation is totally insane during the last few years or since COVID first started. Fed's recent action is historic and yet, the inflation is still heading upward. The Fed's 2% target rate is totally misleading because it is based on 12 month rolling average, especially with the rate trending up for the last few years.

IMO, it need to go negative for a long duration to restore some of the price increases, and yes, it is going to happen.

My neighbor just picked up an Corolla GR for $15k over msrp, and he was jumping for joy. He said he got offer to sell it for $25K over. It is transaction like this that will keep car prices extremely high for a very long time.

vtec to vvel

There's nothing "normal" with the current market. This is actually a first to where the Feds cannot refer to a previous play or scenario to guide them through the current economic situation. Jerome Powell even admitted to not understanding inflation: "We now understand better how little we understand about inflation" - June 2022.

Barry Habib (one of the world's most respected economists) so eloquently describes inflation as "too many dollars chasing too few goods". When COVID happened, Feds drastically cut rates to prevent the economy from crashing, but the other half of the equation is supply. Due to COVID, the global supply chain was disrupted, so there was alot of money pumped into the economy, but not enough goods to support the demand. This is when inflation really became out of control and the Feds were too late on raising rates to keep inflation in check. Inflation will continue to rise as long as supply is scarce. Raising rates may help, but the biggest key is getting the supply chain back in order.

Buying/selling cars at higher inflated prices will NOT keep car prices high. It is the lack of supply/inventory that will keep prices elevated. If more supply become available, this should stabilize car prices.

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nis350

of course, it is the very basic concept of supply and demand. The price in general is a result of that equation. I know someone who bought an 911 GTS in the middle of 2020 for $20K off msrp because nobody was buying cars. You can't even touch the same car for at least $20K over msrp now.

IMO, Powell is failing in fighting inflation. He sat on his behind for way too long... "transitory" my a$$. All these crazy rate hikes and QT's haven't done much. Perhaps a recession is needed.

vtec to vvel

Historically, each time the Feds have previously tried to fight inflation, it always resulted in a recession.

The current economic state is a different scenario and COVID19 had a significant influence on this. It all comes down to supply. IMO, rate hikes, QT's/QE's, a recession will not resolve the current economy. The goal of the rate hikes is to discourage borrowed spending and subsequently lower demand, which also in turn lowers employment. Why do you think employment hasn't gone down even with the significant frequency of rate hikes? Why you do you think inflation hasn't cooled? The demand is still very much there, but the supply is severely lacking, so employers/companies are still in production mode with what materials they have available (hence why the employment rate isn't being lowered).

My biggest concern is that we could be headed for a stagflation at this rate.

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nis350

We're definitely living in an extraordinary time. Powell has obviously lost the battle against inflation. He has probably another 25 to 50 basis point hike, but that isn't going to fix anything near term. Inflation is still red hot and everything has gone up so much in the last few years.

I personally don't know how and when this is going the end, but I have a bad feeling that it won't end well. Perhaps something like 2008/2009 when one can pick up an 360 for $65K.

Sorry for the off topic discussion...

vtec to vvel

The 25 to 50 bps increases are typical. The 4 75 bps bumps in 2022 were not normal.

One of the biggest differences from late 2000's to now is regulation, esp. in the mortgage lending/housing industry, which is why I don't understand why people think there will be another housing crash (completely different market then vs now and with alot more regulation).

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vtec to vvel

Going back on topic, I still stand with what I said:

The new Z is ugly. The "upgrades" are not worth it IMO. I'll take the Q60 Red Sport instead.

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nis350

Nissan really missed the opportunity to make this a better looking car. I am ok with the mechanics, but a better front end and more muscular rear would be nice.

vtec to vvel

The "mechanics" are nothing new and from previous models. The engine is from the Q60 Red Sport. The doors are identical to the 370Z. The car looks ugly in pictures, and uglier in person. I sat in one at a dealership and was not in the least impressed with it.

The car feels like Nissan scrambled at the 11th hour to produce something just to protect their market share.

When Nissan took a hiatus after the 300ZX, the 350Z was a success due to the time they took to really come out with an innovative product, while building anticipation. IMO, Nissan should have taken some time off after the 370Z and go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Their timing is also bad, when inflation/borrowing costs are going up.

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NecioVato

Definitely agree that the timing was WAY off - the beginning of the pandemic, the shortages that we were all seeing and knew it would affect the overall delivery of the product. Once the product has been received - now we are dealing with markups - which is kinda insane when you think about it - bc this is supposed to be a car that will help rejuvenate interest in NISSAN vs turn people off - like it has (if you ask me). Not only that - but if you can offer this car without the markups - then you can compete against Toyota Supra bc personally it feels like this car can't compete with it on performance; but probably could on price.

The thing is though - I feel if they would have waited - it would have never happened. Part of me feels like - maybe they should have done a 'small refresh' like take the 370z and drop a VR30 in it with all the supporting mods and look to add a larger screen with Apple Car Play. Speaking for myself - that is ALL I was looking for. The new design I don't hate but I keep hearing that its more like a cruiser and less like a sports car - if that is the case - then yeah, I'm out. The Nismo definitely isn't helping things by being AUTO only SMH.

Oh well - you get the point - /rant.

ZoomZ

Wife picked up her 2023 Macan S. Porsche dealer told her this is last year for Gas powered Macan. I can't see them NOT offering at least a Hybrid/pug-in. For argument sake lets stick to their plan of EV Macan only.

There is the conversation that this may be the last Z or at least Gas powered Z. In which case, why would Nissan do any major update to please the "crowd" in the ICE? Fully knowing that their focus will be on the new generation of EV.

I like the Aria. Is this the ultimate replacement for the murano? It may be.

I don't like this EV revolution. Too many sheeple have been fed the Kool-aid. They are buying EV's for wrong reasons. The part I hate is the forced mandates. Even more, the comparison of an EV to ICE car and how much faster it is.

A bit off topic, but my opinion why the Z is what it is and where it's headed.

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nis350

We were looking to buy an Q60, but ended up with an Lexus. The VR30 motor has major problems with the turbos, and the engine block where it required the replacement of the short block.

Furthermore, one has to be an idiot to pay $30K+ mark up on the new Z regardless.