[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

RicerX · 10-22-2020, 10:24 AM

I'll weigh in on the 9 speed thing as I have personal experience with it.

I had a 2017 Titan Pro4X that got "lemoned" (not technically lemon law action, but a negotiation with Nissan due to my experience with it) and moved into a 2018 Pro4X. My 2017 was a hot pile of garbage. In all the Nissans I owned, it was the only one I had significant trouble with. The transmission was replaced at 2000 miles and that was only the start of my issues with that truck, but I digress.

My 2018 was simply passable. The transmission and gearing in that truck was just not great. The 5.6L is a wonderful engine, but that truck felt half asleep no matter what I was doing, but it did the job. I towed with it (most I towed was probably 6,000 pounds), hauled with it, went on long road trips, and it was mostly fine. Nothing exciting - it was a truck and I'm a Z guy without a Z.

Enter being bored and curious during COVID, and I went and drove a 2020 Pro4X with the new 9 speed. Long story short, I took advantage of inflated used car pricing due to low inventory and available factory incentives and I drove two hours to a dealer that had what I wanted and bought it.

You cannot draw a straight line between the 7AT in the 17-19 Titan and the 9AT in the 2020+ Titan. Not only is my real world fuel economy for my typical everyday drives averaging about 2.3 mpg better (significant in a 15mpg rated half ton with a 23 gallon tank), the responsiveness of my truck at any speed with any kind of throttle input absolutely demolishes the responsiveness in the 15 Q50S 3.7L Sport I had. It downshifts when asked, it doesn't early upshift constantly to keep the engine at idle speeds, and doesn't lug between gears. They paired a better final drive gear with the new 9 speed and the 10 hp increase (when running premium) truly feels like 100hp difference when compared to the old truck.

Gearing is SO important in cars. They make so much power, but the usability of it is all in the transmission. It's why CVTs suck balls. Want to neuter a VQ V6? Pair a CVT to it. Want to completely botch a product like the QX50 that should sell like beer at Oktoberfest? Pair a CVT to it (and a continuously variable engine that's like mechanical sudoku. The QX50 drives like a "choose your own ending" novel that doesn't let you choose the good ending, but alludes that it's there somewhere as long as you keep trying, but again I digress).

If I can make a new Z work in my life, and the 9AT is available, I would have to at least drive it. If it's that good in a 4x4 half ton truck, it should be absolutely monstrous in a sports car application. I know ZF is the gold standard (I own one of those too in a 2020 Audi Q7, and it's very very good), but this new Jatco 9 speed is right up there with it. Many of the truck guys on youtube compare it very favorably to the ZF 8 speed that's in the Ram 1500s right now.

I would wager that you'd just be splitting hairs between that and a DCT, and a DCT would probably price you out of the market with this car if Nissan were to actually build one.

TaroBaapG35 · 10-22-2020, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

.....but the GTR is a DCT.

so nissan technically does do DCT lol

LOL. I clearly brainfarted. I completely forgot about the GT-R. But, I guess in terms of reliability and price they might not put it into Z. Who knows at this point. All speculation until then.

FPenvy · 10-22-2020, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaroBaapG35

LOL. I clearly brainfarted. I completely forgot about the GT-R. But, I guess in terms of reliability and price they might not put it into Z. Who knows at this point. All speculation until then.

i will say this the GTR DCT is amazing.

highly doubtful Nissan would have a car at 1/2 the price with only 165 less HP and also a DCT. well 145 less than my 2015 vs new GTR's since they bumped again to 565 over the 545. you get my point lol

just wouldn't make sense for them and they have always made sure to separate the Z and GTR.

FPenvy · 10-22-2020, 02:25 PM

also i'm 99.9% sure the new Z is just a reskinned 370 which i'm ok with.

someone got a wheelbase measurement before nissan tossed them and it's same as the 370.

personally, after 10 years of owning/driving my 370, i think the handling and feel is amazing.

so i get that plus a TT engine pumping 400hp stock......which instantly will have the warranty voided by me. i'm ok with that.

think final decision will come down to a couple factors.

1. look. i gotta see one in person and touch it.
2. transmission.
3. will the GTR brakes be a sport option or nismo only.
4. color choices. not a deal breaker just curious lol

Hotrodz · 10-22-2020, 02:51 PM

I stated this right before the proto was released. There will be no DCT for the new Z. So far my source has been spot on with the information he has given me on the new Z. The only thing he said about the transmission was that it would be something that is already in use. I hope to see my spy in about three weeks at the track so I will pump him for more info. Also the Nismo will only be an auto so Fpenvy has more to choose from.

FPenvy · 10-22-2020, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I stated this right before the proto was released. There will be no DCT for the new Z. So far my source has been spot on with the information he has given me on the new Z. The only thing he said about the transmission was that it would be something that is already in use. I hope to see my spy in about three weeks at the track so I will pump him for more info. Also the Nismo will only be an auto so Fpenvy has more to choose from.

i mean.......you're not wrong.

especially if it's the only model with thr GTR brakes. thats the only model i would buy.

TaroBaapG35 · 10-22-2020, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I stated this right before the proto was released. There will be no DCT for the new Z. So far my source has been spot on with the information he has given me on the new Z. The only thing he said about the transmission was that it would be something that is already in use. I hope to see my spy in about three weeks at the track so I will pump him for more info. Also the Nismo will only be an auto so Fpenvy has more to choose from.

Only Auto for the Nismo? Damn. I was hoping this time around I could get a Manual Z Nismo :/ instead of my previous Touring+Sport

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

i mean.......you're not wrong.

especially if it's the only model with thr GTR brakes. thats the only model i would buy.

Yea, that would mean the price would def be closer to the $60k mark.

I also have heard from GTR owners that the brakes are good, but they're expensive to replace (maintenance wise). Would you agree?

UNKNOWN_370 · 10-22-2020, 07:50 PM

https://www.motor1.com/news/450407/n...detailed-look/

Heres some guys shooting the shyt over the Z35. Good convo...

Jumping in late on the price argument argument.

If youve driven a red sport. The engine punches above its class. The transmission didnt. But nissan is building up a better transmission of some kind. So im expecting better than q60.
Next, what if the chassis has 50% more tensile steel? Youll be feeling much better rigity grip n traction?

All that for low 40s to start isnt bad.
The only way we will see a 35k Z is if the 300hp engine comes base.

We arent getting 400hp turbo on a 3400lb or less car for $35k. The question is, eill it punch above its weight class or not? If the regular Z handles like the current nismo n the nismo handles better? It will be a vargain 44k with 400hp!

takemorepills · 10-22-2020, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I'll weigh in on the 9 speed thing as I have personal experience with it.

I had a 2017 Titan Pro4X that got "lemoned" (not technically lemon law action, but a negotiation with Nissan due to my experience with it) and moved into a 2018 Pro4X. My 2017 was a hot pile of garbage. In all the Nissans I owned, it was the only one I had significant trouble with. The transmission was replaced at 2000 miles and that was only the start of my issues with that truck, but I digress.

My 2018 was simply passable. The transmission and gearing in that truck was just not great. The 5.6L is a wonderful engine, but that truck felt half asleep no matter what I was doing, but it did the job. I towed with it (most I towed was probably 6,000 pounds), hauled with it, went on long road trips, and it was mostly fine. Nothing exciting - it was a truck and I'm a Z guy without a Z.

Enter being bored and curious during COVID, and I went and drove a 2020 Pro4X with the new 9 speed. Long story short, I took advantage of inflated used car pricing due to low inventory and available factory incentives and I drove two hours to a dealer that had what I wanted and bought it.

You cannot draw a straight line between the 7AT in the 17-19 Titan and the 9AT in the 2020+ Titan. Not only is my real world fuel economy for my typical everyday drives averaging about 2.3 mpg better (significant in a 15mpg rated half ton with a 23 gallon tank), the responsiveness of my truck at any speed with any kind of throttle input absolutely demolishes the responsiveness in the 15 Q50S 3.7L Sport I had. It downshifts when asked, it doesn't early upshift constantly to keep the engine at idle speeds, and doesn't lug between gears. They paired a better final drive gear with the new 9 speed and the 10 hp increase (when running premium) truly feels like 100hp difference when compared to the old truck.

Gearing is SO important in cars. They make so much power, but the usability of it is all in the transmission. It's why CVTs suck balls. Want to neuter a VQ V6? Pair a CVT to it. Want to completely botch a product like the QX50 that should sell like beer at Oktoberfest? Pair a CVT to it (and a continuously variable engine that's like mechanical sudoku. The QX50 drives like a "choose your own ending" novel that doesn't let you choose the good ending, but alludes that it's there somewhere as long as you keep trying, but again I digress).

If I can make a new Z work in my life, and the 9AT is available, I would have to at least drive it. If it's that good in a 4x4 half ton truck, it should be absolutely monstrous in a sports car application. I know ZF is the gold standard (I own one of those too in a 2020 Audi Q7, and it's very very good), but this new Jatco 9 speed is right up there with it. Many of the truck guys on youtube compare it very favorably to the ZF 8 speed that's in the Ram 1500s right now.

I would wager that you'd just be splitting hairs between that and a DCT, and a DCT would probably price you out of the market with this car if Nissan were to actually build one.

I have a Titan with the 5AT and my Q60 has the 7AT.
Somedays I think the Titan is far more enjoyable to drive just due to how good the 5AT is in it. I've owned the truck over 11 years now, and I don't think the 5AT has ever missed a beat, it has always been perfect with the downshifts, chooses the right times to upshift. If my right foot twitches, it gives me another gear immediately.
However, the 7AT in my Q60 frequently ignores my WOT for several seconds. It doesn't always ignore my WOT, just sometimes, and when it does it drives me crazy. And it shifts super late in gears 1-2 and super early in all other gears. Sometimes it drives OK. My Titan never gives me an issue. Always on point. I can't believe Nissan never "fixed" the 7AT, I am quite certain it is a TCM logic issue, not a hardware issue, just seems like really stupid software.

Firebase99 · 10-22-2020, 08:25 PM

My girlfriends $25,000 Hyundai Veloster Turbo with 200hp/200TQ has a DCT and its AMAZING. I cant believe Nissan wont put one in the Z. Shame.

takemorepills · 10-22-2020, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

We arent getting 400hp turbo on a 3400lb or less car for $35k. The question is, eill it punch above its weight class or not? If the regular Z handles like the current nismo n the nismo handles better? It will be a bargain 44k with 400hp!

I've been lurking around the Q50/60 forums absorbing all I can about the VR.

It's a great engine. Does not take much to make a lot more power. Looking over everyone's VR mods it's very clear that $2-3K in mods turns these cars into beasts. Even the 300HP VR turns into a beast with some bolt-ons, heat exchange upgrade and a tune.

Nissan has been very generous with this platform/drivetrain. They could have acted like Toyota and locked everything down. Nope, these cars are every bit as modifiable as any of the German turbo cars are.

More impressive is that those guys are stuck with the 7AT, and they are still getting good performance with the 7AT. When they get the 9AT and the new Z gets both the 6MT and 9AT the VR is really going to shine.

nismo13807 · 10-22-2020, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

I stated this right before the proto was released. There will be no DCT for the new Z. So far my source has been spot on with the information he has given me on the new Z. The only thing he said about the transmission was that it would be something that is already in use. I hope to see my spy in about three weeks at the track so I will pump him for more info. Also the Nismo will only be an auto so Fpenvy has more to choose from.

this upsets me.....i hope your source is wrong on this!!

Hotrodz · 10-22-2020, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nismo13807

this upsets me.....i hope your source is wrong on this!!

LOL, even though I agree with you I don't think he is. He is been working for them for 25 years and is one of the end at the proving grounds here in AZ. I'm pretty sure he has the inside scoop and facts related to the new Z.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

takemorepills · 10-22-2020, 11:48 PM

As is the case with the 7AT vs. 6MT, the 9AT is likely to be significantly faster in a straight line than the 6MT.

Although, it seems odd that Nissan wouldn't offer a 6MT on the NISMO

FPenvy · 10-23-2020, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaroBaapG35

I also have heard from GTR owners that the brakes are good, but they're expensive to replace (maintenance wise). Would you agree?

they're very good even on a 4000lb monster. on a Z they may break necks lol

as for cost, its a myth.

people who say they're expensive go to the dealer who rips you off.

you can get all new rotor rings and pads for 1200-2000 depending on pad choice.

10-22-2020, 10:24 AM	#6046 (permalink)
RicerX Track Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: TN Posts: 597 Drives: To the Pizza joint. Rep Power: 7720	I'll weigh in on the 9 speed thing as I have personal experience with it. I had a 2017 Titan Pro4X that got "lemoned" (not technically lemon law action, but a negotiation with Nissan due to my experience with it) and moved into a 2018 Pro4X. My 2017 was a hot pile of garbage. In all the Nissans I owned, it was the only one I had significant trouble with. The transmission was replaced at 2000 miles and that was only the start of my issues with that truck, but I digress. My 2018 was simply passable. The transmission and gearing in that truck was just not great. The 5.6L is a wonderful engine, but that truck felt half asleep no matter what I was doing, but it did the job. I towed with it (most I towed was probably 6,000 pounds), hauled with it, went on long road trips, and it was mostly fine. Nothing exciting - it was a truck and I'm a Z guy without a Z. Enter being bored and curious during COVID, and I went and drove a 2020 Pro4X with the new 9 speed. Long story short, I took advantage of inflated used car pricing due to low inventory and available factory incentives and I drove two hours to a dealer that had what I wanted and bought it. You cannot draw a straight line between the 7AT in the 17-19 Titan and the 9AT in the 2020+ Titan. Not only is my real world fuel economy for my typical everyday drives averaging about 2.3 mpg better (significant in a 15mpg rated half ton with a 23 gallon tank), the responsiveness of my truck at any speed with any kind of throttle input absolutely demolishes the responsiveness in the 15 Q50S 3.7L Sport I had. It downshifts when asked, it doesn't early upshift constantly to keep the engine at idle speeds, and doesn't lug between gears. They paired a better final drive gear with the new 9 speed and the 10 hp increase (when running premium) truly feels like 100hp difference when compared to the old truck. Gearing is SO important in cars. They make so much power, but the usability of it is all in the transmission. It's why CVTs suck balls. Want to neuter a VQ V6? Pair a CVT to it. Want to completely botch a product like the QX50 that should sell like beer at Oktoberfest? Pair a CVT to it (and a continuously variable engine that's like mechanical sudoku. The QX50 drives like a "choose your own ending" novel that doesn't let you choose the good ending, but alludes that it's there somewhere as long as you keep trying, but again I digress). If I can make a new Z work in my life, and the 9AT is available, I would have to at least drive it. If it's that good in a 4x4 half ton truck, it should be absolutely monstrous in a sports car application. I know ZF is the gold standard (I own one of those too in a 2020 Audi Q7, and it's very very good), but this new Jatco 9 speed is right up there with it. Many of the truck guys on youtube compare it very favorably to the ZF 8 speed that's in the Ram 1500s right now. I would wager that you'd just be splitting hairs between that and a DCT, and a DCT would probably price you out of the market with this car if Nissan were to actually build one. FL 4Motion, JARblue, KCZ and 3 others like this. __________________ Last edited by RicerX; 10-22-2020 at 10:28 AM.

10-22-2020, 02:51 PM	#6050 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	I stated this right before the proto was released. There will be no DCT for the new Z. So far my source has been spot on with the information he has given me on the new Z. The only thing he said about the transmission was that it would be something that is already in use. I hope to see my spy in about three weeks at the track so I will pump him for more info. Also the Nismo will only be an auto so Fpenvy has more to choose from. FPenvy and 1/4atatime like this. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

10-22-2020, 07:50 PM	#6053 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	https://www.motor1.com/news/450407/n...detailed-look/ Heres some guys shooting the shyt over the Z35. Good convo... Jumping in late on the price argument argument. If youve driven a red sport. The engine punches above its class. The transmission didnt. But nissan is building up a better transmission of some kind. So im expecting better than q60. Next, what if the chassis has 50% more tensile steel? Youll be feeling much better rigity grip n traction? All that for low 40s to start isnt bad. The only way we will see a 35k Z is if the 300hp engine comes base. We arent getting 400hp turbo on a 3400lb or less car for $35k. The question is, eill it punch above its weight class or not? If the regular Z handles like the current nismo n the nismo handles better? It will be a vargain 44k with 400hp! sunkist350z and Hotrodz like this. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

10-22-2020, 08:25 PM	#6055 (permalink)
Firebase99 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: fl Posts: 1,372 Drives: 14 3.8 Gen Coupe GT Rep Power: 14034	My girlfriends $25,000 Hyundai Veloster Turbo with 200hp/200TQ has a DCT and its AMAZING. I cant believe Nissan wont put one in the Z. Shame. __________________ '14 3.8 Genesis Coupe, '13 Volvo S60, '04 Honda Accord, '13 370Z-sold, '05 350Z Touring-sold, '92 300Z Twin Turbo-sold, '82 280ZX-gone, '79 260Z-gone

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10-22-2020, 11:48 PM	#6059 (permalink)
takemorepills Base Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 196 Drives: Q60 3.7 AWD Rep Power: 6716	As is the case with the 7AT vs. 6MT, the 9AT is likely to be significantly faster in a straight line than the 6MT. Although, it seems odd that Nissan wouldn't offer a 6MT on the NISMO