[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

takemorepills · 10-19-2020, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

The breakout of the trims and pricing makes perfect sense - even moreso than the 370Z's pricing ever did, because you're getting something tangibly and measurably better in the top trims that more aligns with what potential buyers might throw their money at. The 300hp version of the VR30DDTT is also cheaper to produce, contributing to a less expensive entry level model.

On the low end, you have a 300hp version that is an improvement over the previous generation car in virtually every way. More tech, more power under the curve, better standard equipment. It will also be price-positioned to play in the BRZ/MX5/EcoBoost Mustang space. The BRZ starts at $28k, and I believe even the 370Z is a superior vehicle (for what is less than 10% more money right now, new for new, base trim to base trim, excluding any available incentives). Whatever vanilla toyota juice gets pumped into the "all new" BRZ doesn't sound like it will even compare to the leap the powertrain will make from the 370 to the new Z. For those that want to mod, the choice will be a no brainer - the Z will have a far higher ceiling than any of those other choices.

On the high end, you'll have a Nismo that makes 100hp+ more (what did so many people gripe about with the current Nismo again?), providing value for costing more and putting it within punching distance of any of the mainstream sports cars in that price range with respect to power output.
We'll also already have a pretty well established aftermarket with AMS and other players that have been active on the Infiniti Red Sport cars.

You'll have a car that's a significant improvement and far more competitive that can compete in two spaces. That's better than what can be said for any point in the 370Z's lifecycle.

While that covers the segment itself, your potential buyer profile also widens. There are those that may be swayed from another brand with the value proposition of the lower end package, and there are those that will be placing a Nismo order the day the books open and bringing it to Z-Con the first chance they get. You can satisfy and retain your cult following of Z buyers (Nissan's first objective as it's their only sure bet on any profitability whatsover) yet allow yourself an opportunity to increase the size of that cult following.

If the car mag in question turns out to be correct, then I will have called this from the beginning and stand by my assessment that this is the right move, and we'll have a Z platform that stands to be in the most potentially profitable position since the Z32. Which brings me to my next prediction -

I think we'll see the return of the 300ZX. I might be wrong, but it would be neat if I wasn't.

I agree, this puts the next Z on the best competitive footing it has ever had. I clearly remember the last Z32 TT I saw at a dealer going for $50K+ in the mid 90's. It was a great car, but really really expensive.
My money is on the name "300Z" being used. The "x" isn't that important to the lineage of Z, it was just thrown in these during the late 70's "just because" and Nissan dropped it when they brought out the 350Z. I know everyone keeps calling the car "400Z" but there is absolutely no premise for Nissan to do that. 300Z will still be a new name in the lineage, even if it goes backward numerically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

i'm slightly confused is S and T are for "sport" and "touring", then why would the plain sport model be a 300hp model?

i know it lines up with Q60 300hp vs Q60RS having 400hp.

buttttt if you toss a "sport" name on it why only 300hp and ST will have 400?

touring was always the way they denoted the upgraded seats.

idk nissan always blows it with the trims especially when they updated it in like 2013 or whatever.

originally the sport touring on the 09-12 models was perfect. i hope thats how they do it again. also curious as to if the GTR brakes will be on sport or touring or only a nismo option.

Japan has slightly different options, don't they?

I think maybe they'll offer dual piston sliding calipers on the lower 300HP models, Akebono calipers on the 400HP models, and possibly the GTR brakes on the Nismo?

I would LOVE to get a 400HP 6MT with Akebonos and cloth interior. I really hope they don't make leather mandatory for 400HP trims.

According to Q50/60 VR folks, the difference between the 300HP and 400HP models is largely erased with tuning, the tunes gain A LOT on 300HP cars and less on 400HP cars, bringing tuned 300HP cars close to the tuned RS cars. The 400HP VR is not terribly different from the 300HP model, I believe turbine speed sensors and an extra cooler. Careful tuning and adding more cooling are what most people do to achieve big gains from the 300HP VR.

There's other questions I have too, like what kind of differential in the different trims?

RicerX · 10-20-2020, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takemorepills

According to Q50/60 VR folks, the difference between the 300HP and 400HP models is largely erased with tuning, the tunes gain A LOT on 300HP cars and less on 400HP cars, bringing tuned 300HP cars close to the tuned RS cars. The 400HP VR is not terribly different from the 300HP model, I believe turbine speed sensors and an extra cooler. Careful tuning and adding more cooling are what most people do to achieve big gains from the 300HP VR.

There's other questions I have too, like what kind of differential in the different trims?

From what I understand, there's an extra water pump and an oil cooler on the Red Sports in addition to the turbine speed sensors. AMS has demonstrated a lot of the bottle necks come from the cooling from the factory with their aftermarket offerings. The other thing I'd consider a requirement is Z1's HKS BOV kit as the VR comes with no recirculation or blowoff setup at all, and that's what kills the factory turbos in the car prematurely.

For me, I'd prefer to get the top tier configuration and have it under warranty for a while. I'd get a good starting point to get comfortable with the car and then build off that over time. But they'll sell plenty of the 300hp configurations to people who will start throwing the mods at them right away and that's awesome too!

FPenvy · 10-20-2020, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takemorepills

Japan has slightly different options, don't they?

I think maybe they'll offer dual piston sliding calipers on the lower 300HP models, Akebono calipers on the 400HP models, and possibly the GTR brakes on the Nismo?

I would LOVE to get a 400HP 6MT with Akebonos and cloth interior. I really hope they don't make leather mandatory for 400HP trims.

According to Q50/60 VR folks, the difference between the 300HP and 400HP models is largely erased with tuning, the tunes gain A LOT on 300HP cars and less on 400HP cars, bringing tuned 300HP cars close to the tuned RS cars. The 400HP VR is not terribly different from the 300HP model, I believe turbine speed sensors and an extra cooler. Careful tuning and adding more cooling are what most people do to achieve big gains from the 300HP VR.

There's other questions I have too, like what kind of differential in the different trims?

yea the HP difference is just tuning. the only difference in parts i believe is the turbo speed sensor on the 400hp version and thats really it.

triso07 · 10-20-2020, 10:29 AM

Does anyone know what the engine in the Q60 redsport FEELs like to drive?

- Is the power linear?
- Are there torque dips?
- Does power die off at the top end?
- Punchy?
- Does it sound like anything?

viiv · 10-20-2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triso07

Does anyone know what the engine in the Q60 redsport FEELs like to drive?

- Is the power linear?
- Are there torque dips?
- Does power die off at the top end?
- Punchy?
- Does it sound like anything?

In answered that question in this thread:

Test drove a 2020 Q60, I prefer the sound of the VQ37

It sounds like a V6 Camry.

triso07 · 10-20-2020, 02:16 PM

You spoke a lot about sound in that thread. I think it's clear the sound will be average at best unless aftermarket exhaust is used.

What about the other questions in terms of the feel of the motor?

FPenvy · 10-20-2020, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triso07

You spoke a lot about sound in that thread. I think it's clear the sound will be average at best unless aftermarket exhaust is used.

What about the other questions in terms of the feel of the motor?

if i get one, i am already purchasing an FI exhaust for it.

they already have been selling for the Q60 and i assume it wont take much to adjust the bends to fit the new Z especially if it's really a 370 chassis.

i'm thinking 3"-3.5" straight pipe would get the job done.

twin turbo no need for mufflers.

1/4atatime · 10-20-2020, 02:43 PM

Everyone is focused on how good the motor is I could care less about that it's been in the q60/q50 for a while.now. I can drop one in my 370z right now if I wanted. I want to know how the new Z will handle. I test drove a q60 right after test driving a Z and I could never see myself in that car. That car feels like I'm driving a blob with wheels and a turbo. It has absolutely no character or driver feedback. If they throw on that adaptive suspension crap and drive by wire I'll never trade my 370z in. I would honestly rather drive a nisan versa than that car. At least when I'm taking a corner it will give me some driver feedback. I actually felt unsafe in the q60 I couldn't feel a hardly anything the car was doing. I'm pretty sure I would have taken a corner way too hard in it without knowing and ended up in a ditch somewhere.

FPenvy · 10-20-2020, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1/4atatime

Everyone is focused on how good the motor is I could care less about that it's been in the q60/q50 for a while.now. I can drop one in my 370z right now if I wanted. I want to know how the new Z will handle. I test drove a q60 right after test driving a Z and I could never see myself in that car. That car feels like I'm driving a blob with wheels and a turbo. It has absolutely no character or driver feedback. If they throw on that adaptive suspension crap and drive by wire I'll never trade my 370z in. I would honestly rather drive a nisan versa than that car. At least when I'm taking a corner it will give me some driver feedback. I actually felt unsafe in the q60 I couldn't feel a hardly anything the car was doing. I'm pretty sure I would have taken a corner way too hard in it without knowing and ended up in a ditch somewhere.

well you're in luck, the new Z was built on the same chassis of the 370 lol

triso07 · 10-20-2020, 02:53 PM

Exactly. Basically the same as the 370z but probably slightly improved.

So the motor IS the big question mark in terms of how it will feel. I'm hoping for linear power, no dead spots, and hopefully some pull to the redline with minimal tapering.

1/4atatime · 10-20-2020, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

well you're in luck, the new Z was built on the same chassis of the 370 lol

The chassis isn't really what I'm wondering about it's the electronic suspension crap on the q60 that's what I don't want. You can make the best chassis in the world but if you have drive by wire or DDS suspension it's going to be boring to drive. Especially if it has drive by wire you can't mod that away.

triso07 · 10-20-2020, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1/4atatime

The chassis isn't really what I'm wondering about it's the electronic suspension crap on the q60 that's what I don't want. You can make the best chassis in the world but if you have drive by wire or DDS suspension it's going to be boring to drive. Especially if it has drive by wire you can't mod that away.

Nissan doesn't have much money and it's pretty clear the Z proto is a reworked 370z so I doubt there's much for you to worry about in this regard.

FPenvy · 10-20-2020, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1/4atatime

The chassis isn't really what I'm wondering about it's the electronic suspension crap on the q60 that's what I don't want. You can make the best chassis in the world but if you have drive by wire or DDS suspension it's going to be boring to drive. Especially if it has drive by wire you can't mod that away.

i mean i have electronic/selectable suspension modes in the GTR and it works quite well lol

Andaesthetics · 10-20-2020, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triso07

Nissan doesn't have much money and it's pretty clear the Z proto is a reworked 370z so I doubt there's much for you to worry about in this regard.

This 100%. Something to note is that not only is the Z Proto a prototype, but it is a working, running, driving car. I'll link video below of the Z Proto starting up, running, driving a bit, and revving.

Based on up-close video reviews of Z Proto, the new Z appears to consist of more 370Z parts than new parts (this has been verified). The wheel base is the same (this has been verified). The underside of the car, exhaust, suspension, etc. are pretty much exactly the same as the 370Z (this has been verified). The only new changes coming to the Z, besides the new exterior body shape, will obviously be the engine which will be the TTV6 (most likely VR30DDTT). It will also have the same exact oil cooler from the Q60 Red Sport (this has been verified). That along with the turbo speed sensors basically confirms it will use the Red Sport Engine. The transmission will more than likely be the 7-speed automatic just as the Red Sport uses. It appears the Z Proto had some kind of air/electronic suspension of sorts so there may be an adaptable suspension. The chassis is more than likely the same considering the wheel base is the same and Nissan does not have the money to develop a new chassis. I also kinda doubt it'll be updated or upgraded much either because again, Nissan does not have the money. The interior is virtually the same besides the new infotainment, driver digital dashboard, and yellow contrast accents.

Considering all that info and the fact that Nissan execs themselves said multiple times the car will come to production almost exactly as it is, this means that most, if not all the parts seen on the Z Proto will be on the production car.

I think a lot of people don't realize that the new Z is mostly still 370Z besides the above mentioned. Nissan shouldn't need to increase the price of the new Z very much because of this. I will bet that the new Z will start around $35,000 for the base model, going up to $45,000 MAX for the Sport/Premium/whatever line. This would be a perfect and unbeatable price point for the new Z and it would likely outsell just about all other competition on the market in that price range.

If you want to see how the above info is verified watch these videos.

( Click to show/hide )

latch · 10-20-2020, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viiv

In answered that question in this thread:

Test drove a 2020 Q60, I prefer the sound of the VQ37

It sounds like a V6 Camry.

The Lotus Evora 4xx would like a word with you.

10-20-2020, 10:29 AM	#6019 (permalink)
triso07 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 174 Drives: xxxxxxx Rep Power: 14	Does anyone know what the engine in the Q60 redsport FEELs like to drive? - Is the power linear? - Are there torque dips? - Does power die off at the top end? - Punchy? - Does it sound like anything? KCZ likes this.

10-20-2020, 02:43 PM	#6023 (permalink)
1/4atatime Base Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: VA Posts: 179 Drives: Silver 2018 370z Rep Power: 6716	Everyone is focused on how good the motor is I could care less about that it's been in the q60/q50 for a while.now. I can drop one in my 370z right now if I wanted. I want to know how the new Z will handle. I test drove a q60 right after test driving a Z and I could never see myself in that car. That car feels like I'm driving a blob with wheels and a turbo. It has absolutely no character or driver feedback. If they throw on that adaptive suspension crap and drive by wire I'll never trade my 370z in. I would honestly rather drive a nisan versa than that car. At least when I'm taking a corner it will give me some driver feedback. I actually felt unsafe in the q60 I couldn't feel a hardly anything the car was doing. I'm pretty sure I would have taken a corner way too hard in it without knowing and ended up in a ditch somewhere. __________________ Did any of my post help you or just feeling nice?Give Rep\|Add me to your friends list\|View My Build "The real you is who you are when ain't nobody watchin" - NF

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10-20-2020, 02:16 PM	#6021 (permalink)
triso07 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 174 Drives: xxxxxxx Rep Power: 14	You spoke a lot about sound in that thread. I think it's clear the sound will be average at best unless aftermarket exhaust is used. What about the other questions in terms of the feel of the motor?

10-20-2020, 02:53 PM	#6025 (permalink)
triso07 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 174 Drives: xxxxxxx Rep Power: 14	Exactly. Basically the same as the 370z but probably slightly improved. So the motor IS the big question mark in terms of how it will feel. I'm hoping for linear power, no dead spots, and hopefully some pull to the redline with minimal tapering.