[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

sx moneypit · 09-17-2016, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

What they need to do is stop half-a$$ing the implementation of technology. Either you are in full control of the vehicle or something else is in full control. None of this "well you don't have to do anything but you still have to pay attention" bull$hit like the current iterations. Of course, giving over full control to AI is extremely problematic in itself, like Jordo! points out. Although, I'm not convinced that an incompetent driver not paying attention has any chance of making a "better" decision in an emergency than a well-developed AI.

Frankly, the way I see it, the main problem is way too many people have drivers licenses to begin with, which makes everyone feel fuckin entitled to drive. If we made the driving test so that only competent people could get a license, the roads would be much safer.

Well said.

UNKNOWN_370 · 09-17-2016, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

What they need to do is stop half-a$$ing the implementation of technology. Either you are in full control of the vehicle or something else is in full control. None of this "well you don't have to do anything but you still have to pay attention" bull$hit like the current iterations. Of course, giving over full control to AI is extremely problematic in itself, like Jordo! points out. Although, I'm not convinced that an incompetent driver not paying attention has any chance of making a "better" decision in an emergency than a well-developed AI.

Frankly, the way I see it, the main problem is way too many people have drivers licenses to begin with, which makes everyone feel fuckin entitled to drive. If we made the driving test so that only competent people could get a license, the roads would be much safer.

Yes Sir.... New York City they make it hard to pass a road test. And it should be that way. They should require an IQ of at least 108 as well

Dirk McGurck · 09-17-2016, 05:22 PM

It's not just testing people better. Heavier repercussions for delinquent insurance. Repeated testing throughout your life.

Of course with that you'll probably end up with more government nannies. Tradeoff?

brucelidat · 09-18-2016, 02:09 AM

A lot of places here, like Los Angeles, don't have adequate public transportation for drivers licenses to be limited. A lot of people wouldn't be able to get to work or do a lot of other daily things.

Dirk McGurck · 09-18-2016, 07:27 AM

Well, that's another sore point in the US. Our public transit outside of major cities kinda sucks. Dirty, unreliable, unuseful. On top of that, everyone wants their own vehicle anyway.

ped · 09-18-2016, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Yes Sir.... New York City they make it hard to pass a road test. And it should be that way. They should require an IQ of at least 108 as well

If they did that, they'd disqualify a lot of cops from driving.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News

Quote:

The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.

Jordo! · 09-18-2016, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ped

If they did that, they'd disqualify a lot of cops from driving.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News

Is that for real?

If so, that is bizarre. And yes, it's discrimination.

Whatever that test measures, it's unlikely to reflect more than a fraction of what we consider "intelligence" anyway.

In any case, the more intelligent applicants will deliberately score low to avoid that problem, at least if they are informed of it.

Also, what does that say about those eventually being promoted to a detective? Why try and limit your key problem-solvers on intellect?

I won't even get into the weaknesses of their theory in regard to intellect and boredom... or law enforcement, or anything for that matter...

ped · 09-19-2016, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Is that for real?

If so, that is bizarre. And yes, it's discrimination.

Yeah, it's for real.

Quote:

Whatever that test measures, it's unlikely to reflect more than a fraction of what we consider "intelligence" anyway.

Maybe so, but the department thinks it measures something they don't want. Critical thinking? I saw in another article they also screen out people who have (too much?) compassion. So they want dispassionate and average intellect police officers, apparently.

Quote:

In any case, the more intelligent applicants will deliberately score low to avoid that problem, at least if they are informed of it.

Also, what does that say about those eventually being promoted to a detective? Why try and limit your key problem-solvers on intellect?

I agree - but maybe they recruit college grads in a different way for detective track? Not sure.

Z_ealot · 09-19-2016, 11:29 AM

Getting a little to close to talking politics here guys

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Hotrodz · 09-19-2016, 12:21 PM

Lol it is not politics at all...it is psychology and it is backed up by research. It is not about ruling out smart people as IQ is not everything you want people that will not get burned out, know how to think independently but follow orders. Being a patrol cop takes unique person and in most cities and counties in America agencies spend a ton of money vetting potential candidates befor they go to an Academy for formal training and after that the person is put through rigorous field training with the agency of hire. It is about a 9 to 12 month process so you don't want to spend a lot of money on a person that will quit or wash out because they want to be Chief or question everything before they finish training.

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Jordo! · 09-19-2016, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ped

Y
Maybe so, but the department thinks it measures something they don't want. Critical thinking? I saw in another article they also screen out people who have (too much?) compassion. So they want dispassionate and average intellect police officers, apparently.

Yeesh. No comment, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz

Lol it is not politics at all...it is psychology and it is backed up by research. It is not about ruling out smart people as IQ is not everything you want people that will not get burned out, know how to think independently but follow orders. Being a patrol cop takes unique person and in most cities and counties in America agencies spend a ton of money vetting potential candidates befor they go to an Academy for formal training and after that the person is put through rigorous field training with the agency of hire. It is about a 9 to 12 month process so you don't want to spend a lot of money on a person that will quit or wash out because they want to be Chief or question everything before they finish training.

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Well... it depends on what one means by "intelligence" or "boredom". Both constructs are poorly defined in the classic literature.

In any case, there is evidence that IQ test scores tend to be positively correlated with detail oriented processing, so one might argue they are defining police work on the basis of tedium-tolerance or something... which could be construed as a form of boredom-resistance. But detail oriented reasoning vs. looking for "broad stroke" sensory-perceptual events is going to vary incredibly from situation to situation, so I'm just going to assume they have some tests and aren't sure what many of them might actually measure.

That's how it is in most organizations, frankly.

Anyway, it's most likely some other personality or reasoning test that may or may not predict anything related to IQ, intelligence as a concept, etc.

Actually, most of the most widely used, commercially available psychological inventories and skills tests are based on archaic theoretical views (meaning, either generally considered to be incorrect, very contained in meaningfulness, or incredibly culturally biased based on contemporary theory and research in the relevant phenomena to be assessed) and are frequently unreliable and/or invalid. And that's assuming someone can even score and interpret it.

All I want to know is if law enforcement officer-applicants are given the old "F scale" personality test... a high scoring law-enforcement officer would be worrisome...

What's wrong with questioning things? If that's the concern, they might consider administering the Need For Closure test... although it also isn't the greatest psychometric instrument out there for measuring the relevant constructs, which boil down to something like: prefers straightforward, "black & white" answers over ambiguous ones that may beg further questions to be mulled over.

There's some newer, pretty good measures out there for assessing varying degrees of ambiguity tolerance and the variety of ways you can respond to the ambiguous. Long studied concept (ambiguity tolerance vs. intolerance) and its much more complex than it sounds.

UNKNOWN_370 · 09-19-2016, 05:58 PM

Let's change this topic on police. I have a lot of actual and factually why the NYPD would do something like that. Explaining that breaks forum policy. As is the topics now being discussed. We are supposed to be talking about Z's, not IQ tests and cops. Though it's my fault for saying people should have IQ tests to get licenses, which was also a derailing comment. My bad.

NISMO IX · 09-19-2016, 06:50 PM

Why do people release news articles like this?

2017 Nissan 350Z, 240SX, Silvia might be the future sportscars

Hotrodz · 09-19-2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Yeesh. No comment, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Well... it depends on what one means by "intelligence" or "boredom". Both constructs are poorly defined in the classic literature.

In any case, there is evidence that IQ test scores tend to be positively correlated with detail oriented processing, so one might argue they are defining police work on the basis of tedium-tolerance or something... which could be construed as a form of boredom-resistance. But detail oriented reasoning vs. looking for "broad stroke" sensory-perceptual events is going to vary incredibly from situation to situation, so I'm just going to assume they have some tests and aren't sure what many of them might actually measure.

That's how it is in most organizations, frankly.

Anyway, it's most likely some other personality or reasoning test that may or may not predict anything related to IQ, intelligence as a concept, etc.

Actually, most of the most widely used, commercially available psychological inventories and skills tests are based on archaic theoretical views (meaning, either generally considered to be incorrect, very contained in meaningfulness, or incredibly culturally biased based on contemporary theory and research in the relevant phenomena to be assessed) and are frequently unreliable and/or invalid. And that's assuming someone can even score and interpret it.

All I want to know is if law enforcement officer-applicants are given the old "F scale" personality test... a high scoring law-enforcement officer would be worrisome...

What's wrong with questioning things? If that's the concern, they might consider administering the Need For Closure test... although it also isn't the greatest psychometric instrument out there for measuring the relevant constructs, which boil down to something like: prefers straightforward, "black & white" answers over ambiguous ones that may beg further questions to be mulled over.

There's some newer, pretty good measures out there for assessing varying degrees of ambiguity tolerance and the variety of ways you can respond to the ambiguous. Long studied concept (ambiguity tolerance vs. intolerance) and its much more complex than it sounds.

Talk about psychobabble

...I'm with getting back to the subject at hand lol!

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UNKNOWN_370 · 09-19-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISMO IX

Why do people release news articles like this?

2017 Nissan 350Z, 240SX, Silvia might be the future sportscars

Boredom? Lack of pu$$y?

09-17-2016, 05:22 PM	#2703 (permalink)
Dirk McGurck Track Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Delaware Posts: 715 Drives: 09 MB 370Z Touring Rep Power: 21	It's not just testing people better. Heavier repercussions for delinquent insurance. Repeated testing throughout your life. Of course with that you'll probably end up with more government nannies. Tradeoff? __________________ 2009 370Z Touring with Sport

09-18-2016, 02:09 AM	#2704 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	A lot of places here, like Los Angeles, don't have adequate public transportation for drivers licenses to be limited. A lot of people wouldn't be able to get to work or do a lot of other daily things. __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

09-18-2016, 07:27 AM	#2705 (permalink)
Dirk McGurck Track Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Delaware Posts: 715 Drives: 09 MB 370Z Touring Rep Power: 21	Well, that's another sore point in the US. Our public transit outside of major cities kinda sucks. Dirty, unreliable, unuseful. On top of that, everyone wants their own vehicle anyway. JARblue likes this. __________________ 2009 370Z Touring with Sport

09-19-2016, 12:21 PM	#2710 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	Lol it is not politics at all...it is psychology and it is backed up by research. It is not about ruling out smart people as IQ is not everything you want people that will not get burned out, know how to think independently but follow orders. Being a patrol cop takes unique person and in most cities and counties in America agencies spend a ton of money vetting potential candidates befor they go to an Academy for formal training and after that the person is put through rigorous field training with the agency of hire. It is about a 9 to 12 month process so you don't want to spend a lot of money on a person that will quit or wash out because they want to be Chief or question everything before they finish training. Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

09-19-2016, 05:58 PM	#2712 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	Let's change this topic on police. I have a lot of actual and factually why the NYPD would do something like that. Explaining that breaks forum policy. As is the topics now being discussed. We are supposed to be talking about Z's, not IQ tests and cops. Though it's my fault for saying people should have IQ tests to get licenses, which was also a derailing comment. My bad. Jordo! likes this. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

09-19-2016, 11:29 AM	#2709 (permalink)
Z_ealot A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,045 Drives: 09 370Z Touring/Sprt Rep Power: 10091	Getting a little to close to talking politics here guys Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09-19-2016, 06:50 PM	#2713 (permalink)
NISMO IX Track Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southern Maine Age: 47 Posts: 742 Drives: 2014 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 584	Why do people release news articles like this? 2017 Nissan 350Z, 240SX, Silvia might be the future sportscars __________________ 2017 Ford Focus RS Nitrous Blue "KB43VER" 2014 370z Mag Blk 6M "KOKURYU" (Black Dragon)

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