[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

brucelidat · 08-29-2016, 08:01 PM

Hard to make out, is that 383whp 373 wtrq with the CBE? Slap some header son there and more developed tuning software for this new platform and 400whp should be doable with stock cats. I'll need to ask Seb about this. No wonder why he's been too busy to change my tranny fluid.

FPenvy · 08-29-2016, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucelidat

Hard to make out, is that 383whp 373 wtrq with the CBE? Slap some header son there and more developed tuning software for this new platform and 400whp should be doable with stock cats. I'll need to ask Seb about this. No wonder why he's been too busy to change my tranny fluid.

I wanna know how much power something like a 3"-4" straight exhaust would make on the turbo set up.

370Z JT · 08-29-2016, 09:00 PM

I know nothing about how turbo systems work, but can't we just add a boost controller to up the boost?

Also IIRC, Stillen dyno'd a Q50S 400 a couple months ago & got 375WHP 350WTQ; on point with Specialty Z's dynojet.

NISMO IX · 08-29-2016, 09:16 PM

I know it is a different system but I know the MR16DDT in the Juke does not like boost controllers and better off having a series of tunes via the cruise control buttons to control the boost and a bit more stable to boot.

Jordo! · 08-30-2016, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

My bad forgot to post it.

That's a nice flat torque curve. If they offer that in the next Z, Nissan, take my money please.

mishuko · 08-30-2016, 06:55 AM

IIRC stillen was mentioning a true dual CBE would actually drop power due to the size of the engine and not enough back pressure or whatever...

interesting to see what a different set up tubes and combo of tubes proves on the dyno.

njobe89 · 08-30-2016, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

Serious? Is that stock and they got 310+ at the WHEEL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISMO IX

I am assuming that was with a tune and boost turned up, but I wouldn't mind knowing too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

No tune on any of the dyno runs that have been done on the new 3.0tt, nissan is under rating them just like they did with the gtr engine...last i heard the 400hp model was pulling close to 450whp stock

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FPenvy · 08-30-2016, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishuko

IIRC stillen was mentioning a true dual CBE would actually drop power due to the size of the engine and not enough back pressure or whatever...

interesting to see what a different set up tubes and combo of tubes proves on the dyno.

That statement makes no sense based on it being a boosted setup. You want no back pressure with turbos. NA and supercharger setups want the back pressure.

Plus with how quiet turbos make a car I'd be tempted to run just open down pipes haha power and noise

mishuko · 08-30-2016, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

That statement makes no sense based on it being a boosted setup. You want no back pressure with turbos. NA and supercharger setups want the back pressure.

Plus with how quiet turbos make a car I'd be tempted to run just open down pipes haha power and noise

this was taken from infinit50.org or whatever and was a stillen post in regards to a dual 3'' cbe

We are almost done with our new exhaust specifically for the Q50 TT. There is definitely a big restriction in the Cats. The Primary doesn't have a huge pipe diameter restriction, but the secondary necks down to 1.5 inches. I can't say how your setup will sound, but there is really no reason to do a 3inch dual setup. The engine and turbos aren't big enough to make sure of it and it might just hurt power.

FPenvy · 08-30-2016, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishuko

this was taken from infinit50.org or whatever and was a stillen post in regards to a dual 3'' cbe

We are almost done with our new exhaust specifically for the Q50 TT. There is definitely a big restriction in the Cats. The Primary doesn't have a huge pipe diameter restriction, but the secondary necks down to 1.5 inches. I can't say how your setup will sound, but there is really no reason to do a 3inch dual setup. The engine and turbos aren't big enough to make sure of it and it might just hurt power.

My son bigger is always better lol

But yes new engine and setup and they are smaller turbos but still the more air you put in and pump out then it'll gain with boost.

Jordo! · 08-30-2016, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

That statement makes no sense based on it being a boosted setup. You want no back pressure with turbos. NA and supercharger setups want the back pressure.

Plus with how quiet turbos make a car I'd be tempted to run just open down pipes haha power and noise

Sort of -- it's a matter of having air or exhaust mass appropriately matching the volume of the relevant chambers (including within the engine) it flows through for optimal intake, combustion, and exhaust (which varies according to load...).

Too big a diameter for the mass means the speed will slow down, too little and it will backup (i.e., "back pressure"). This will vary enormously with RPM and even more so when boost is involved (valve overlap and timing come into play here too, BTW).

With a turbo, usually the "bigger piping the better" rule holds primarily because the turbo itself restricts exhaust flow, but just going bigger isn't necessarily the solution. Something that just smooths out flow (i.e., minimizes existing restrictions) without massive changes in tubing diameter will probably make a world of difference alone, which is what those dynos suggest.

Also, if they keep VVEL on this motor, it should play a much greater role in tuning FI than it has for NA. The rate at which AF mixture is drawn in, combusted and then expelled to turn the turbine of the turbo will be critical to optimal power and responsiveness, and there will be more wiggle room to play with potentially.

The most flexible way to do that would be tuning valve timing and overlap since a purely mechanical change will be fixed and require some compromise to achieve best output across the rev range.

Judging from that dyno, Nissan did a good job making the twin turbos offer high performance practically right off idle.

Now if you with a bigger set of turbos in the mix (or a gigantic single turbo), then yes, you may need bigger piping.

OEM, my guess is that one turbo is dedicated to bottom end torque and the other to top end, and they balanced the transition so well, the torque curve is reminiscent of a roots blower's output.

Anyway, I want

MagmaRed370z · 08-30-2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

Is there a link to that video?

Z_ealot · 08-30-2016, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Sort of -- it's a matter of having air or exhaust mass appropriately matching the volume of relevant chambers (including within the engine) it will flow through for optimal intake, combustion, and exhaust.

Too big a diameter for the mass means the speed will slow down, too little and it will backup (i.e., "back pressure"). This will vary enormously with RPM and even more so when boost is involved (valve overlap and timing come into play here too, BTW).

With a turbo, usually the "bigger piping the better" rule holds primarily because the turbo itself restricts exhaust flow, but just going bigger isn't necessarily the solution. Something that just smooths out flow (i.e., minimizes existing restrictions) without massive changes in tubing diameter will probably make a world of difference alone, which is suggested by those dynos.

Also, if they keep VVEL on this motor, it should play a much greater role in tuning FI than it has for NA. The rate at which AF mixture is drawn in, combusted and then expelled to turn the turbine of the turbo will be critical to optimal power and responsiveness, and there will be more wiggle room to play with potentially.

The most flexible way to do that would be tuning the mechanics of the valve timing and overlap, as a purely mechanical change will be fixed and require some compromise to achieve best output across the rev range.

Judging from that dyno, Nissan did a good job making the twin turbos offer high performance practically right off idle.

Now if you with a bigger set of turbos in the mix (or a gigantic single turbo), then yes, you may need bigger piping.

OEM, my guess is that one turbo is dedicated to bottom end torque and the other to top end, and they balanced the transition so well, the torque curve is reminiscent of a roots blower's output.

Anyway, I want

Nissan ditched vvel for this engine according to stillens blog on their website.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Juan@Fontana · 08-30-2016, 06:58 PM

no VVEL on the VR30

it's responding good to the mods

jwick · 08-30-2016, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

I know it's blurry I had tony relay the numbers.

Lower down pipes and cbe.....

393hp/390tq

That's just stupid

Hopefully the Z will look good. I don't like the Mazda 6 they turned the G into.

08-29-2016, 08:01 PM	#2536 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	Hard to make out, is that 383whp 373 wtrq with the CBE? Slap some header son there and more developed tuning software for this new platform and 400whp should be doable with stock cats. I'll need to ask Seb about this. No wonder why he's been too busy to change my tranny fluid. __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

08-29-2016, 09:00 PM	#2538 (permalink)
370Z JT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: United States Posts: 2,905 Drives: 370Z PW 7AT Rep Power: 379	I know nothing about how turbo systems work, but can't we just add a boost controller to up the boost? Also IIRC, Stillen dyno'd a Q50S 400 a couple months ago & got 375WHP 350WTQ; on point with Specialty Z's dynojet. __________________ Click for My Journal Top Secret \| EVO-R \| Fujimura Auto \| Shine Auto \| Seibon \| MRWorks \| Swift \| SPC \| SSR \| UpRev \| Project Kics \| NST \| Titek \| Eibach \| Nismo \| Whiteline \| Quaife \| Invidia \| Fly1 \| CF Element \| Carbon Signal Last edited by 370Z JT; 08-29-2016 at 10:59 PM.

08-29-2016, 09:16 PM	#2539 (permalink)
NISMO IX Track Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southern Maine Age: 47 Posts: 742 Drives: 2014 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 584	I know it is a different system but I know the MR16DDT in the Juke does not like boost controllers and better off having a series of tunes via the cruise control buttons to control the boost and a bit more stable to boot. __________________ 2017 Ford Focus RS Nitrous Blue "KB43VER" 2014 370z Mag Blk 6M "KOKURYU" (Black Dragon)

08-30-2016, 06:58 PM	#2549 (permalink)
Juan@Fontana Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Fontana Posts: 315 Drives: Z32 Rep Power: 22	no VVEL on the VR30 it's responding good to the mods FPenvy likes this. __________________ Juan Vargas jvargas@fontananissan.com Motorsports Manager, Tech Support & EMS Specialist. https://www.nissanraceshop.com/wp-co...ite-Header.png

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08-30-2016, 06:55 AM	#2541 (permalink)
mishuko A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: bouncin on tigga Posts: 8,062 Drives: '12 Z Rep Power: 9435	IIRC stillen was mentioning a true dual CBE would actually drop power due to the size of the engine and not enough back pressure or whatever... interesting to see what a different set up tubes and combo of tubes proves on the dyno.