[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

wanderer1234 · 07-20-2016, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

2016 Chevy Camaro SS - 455hp. 3686lbs. 6.2L V8. RWD.

Now imagine if that car shrunk in overall footprint. We removed the rear seats, used similar chassis engineering as far as lightweight materials, put in a motor less than half the size yet with a pair or turbos much like the VR30DDTT. We used smaller wheels (19" rays instead of the 20" wheels that come on the Camaro), fit smaller brakes that fit the platform and wheel setup. Remove a pair of airbags because there is no rear seat. Are we at 300lbs yet?

You can rephrase your posting now... maybe something like "guys stop talking about a bunch of nonsense like 'evolved automotive engineering' or 'making things better than they were yesterday'" or 'the R35 already hurt Porsche's feelings so let's not push it with a Z that could obliterate a Cayman for half the money'".

Oh... and this gem...

2016 Corvette Z06. 3524lbs. 650hp. Are we there yet?

There are plenty of people with modded cars... with modded 370Zs even... that could wipe the floor with a new NSX. Use the search box for a little company called "Fast Intentions".

If you're trolling... I give you a gold star. Otherwise, you need to get out more.

Try shedding 800lbs off that Camero and how much do you think the price will go up? Lol.....

As far as the corvette...what's the price again? Is it 29,000 like the entry Z? Heck is it 41,000 like the Nismo? Uhhhh forget about the Nismo. The sport model is what 32,000? Again be realistic. We all know how hard it is to shed weight on a production car. You tearing out your stock car is yourself. On a production car not so easy.

What's realistic me is...the Z gaining 50-100 lbs but increases in power...but that kind of performance would threaten the GTR symbol. Nissan has already said....if you want performance go GTR. The Z will never have that kind of performance, it'll be good but nothing like how we want it to be.

theDreamer · 07-20-2016, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Try shedding 800lbs off that Camero and how much do you think the price will go up? Lol.....

As far as the corvette...what's the price again? Is it 29,000 like the entry Z? Heck is it 41,000 like the Nismo? Uhhhh forget about the Nismo. The sport model is what 32,000? Again be realistic. We all know how hard it is to shed weight on a production car. You tearing out your stock car is yourself. On a production car not so easy.

What's realistic me is...the Z gaining 50-100 lbs but increases in power...but that kind of performance would threaten the GTR symbol. Nissan has already said....if you want performance go GTR. The Z will never have that kind of performance, it'll be good but nothing like how we want it to be.

Not saying 1 way or the other, but you are looking at this as the 370z is the starting weight/platform. Nissan may begin using a new platform or shorten it even more so, starting the next generation at a completely different point. Also, Nissan is milking the 370z since right now the investment has been made, parts deals were set in 2007/8 for ordering while now their operating cost went down with a car coming up on 10 years. This means they can start fresh with new contracts (good example Brembo to Akebono brakes from the 350z to 370z), this allows them to move up market on quality or newer technology which the 370z did not have in 07/08 when they did the initial investment.

Nissan could easily start the car sub 3k weight depending on where they want to place the next generation Z, will they, probably not but it can be done without shooting the price to the moon or Porsche territory.

wanderer1234 · 07-20-2016, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Not saying 1 way or the other, but you are looking at this as the 370z is the starting weight/platform. Nissan may begin using a new platform or shorten it even more so, starting the next generation at a completely different point. Also, Nissan is milking the 370z since right now the investment has been made, parts deals were set in 2007/8 for ordering while now their operating cost went down with a car coming up on 10 years. This means they can start fresh with new contracts (good example Brembo to Akebono brakes from the 350z to 370z), this allows them to move up market on quality or newer technology which the 370z did not have in 07/08 when they did the initial investment.

Nissan could easily start the car sub 3k weight depending on where they want to place the next generation Z, will they, probably not but it can be done without shooting the price to the moon or Porsche territory.

Which platform? Nissan doesn't have any other platform for the Z. To make a new platform Nissan will spend millions on R and D. That'll only make our wish car of 2800 lbs further from reach.

Look at the twin sisters...BRZ/FRS....they cost almost the same as the base Z with 142 hp less. The truth sucks sometimes. We all like to dream.

Making a car and developing a production platform isn't the same as your regular mod where you can just cut an old platform shorter and build on it. Lol. It takes thousands of hours and millions of dollars to make it safe and reliable so it can be mass produce.

theDreamer · 07-20-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Which platform? Nissan doesn't have any other platform for the Z. To make a new platform Nissan will spend millions on R and D. That'll only make our wish car of 2800 lbs further from reach.

Look at the twin sisters...BRZ/FRS....they cost almost the same as the base Z with 142 hp less. The truth sucks sometimes. We all like to dream.

Making a car and developing a production platform isn't the same as your regular mod where you can just cut an old platform shorter and build on it. Lol. It takes thousands of hours and millions of dollars to make it safe and reliable so it can be mass produce.

You do now they have partnerships with others and can easily (and fairly cost effective) license another platform without spending the R&D money, and the current platform is fairly old already so I would not be surprised if Nissan has been looking at something new or developing it already. Plus the Z platform is shared already with many other cars to help reduce long terms cost, this is one reason the IDx failed to be produced was because it was a brand new platform which at the time was not going to be shared with any other of Nissan's lineup.

wanderer1234 · 07-20-2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

You do now they have partnerships with others and can easily (and fairly cost effective) license another platform without spending the R&D money, and the current platform is fairly old already so I would not be surprised if Nissan has been looking at something new or developing it already. Plus the Z platform is shared already with many other cars to help reduce long terms cost, this is one reason the IDx failed to be produced was because it was a brand new platform which at the time was not going to be shared with any other of Nissan's lineup.

Yes. That further proves why we ain't getting a sub 2800 lb car with 450 hp in the 45k range. Lol. To many variables. The engineers at Nissan would've done it if it was possible. They can't find a platform lol.

theDreamer · 07-20-2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Yes. That further proves why we ain't getting a sub 2800 lb car with 450 hp in the 45k range. Lol. To many variables. The engineers at Nissan would've done it if it was possible.

Why do you think if they could do it they would have?
Technology moves forwards, cost are reduced, and the platform sharing is actually fairly new with recent partnerships in the past decade.

You have to take the current generation with a grain of salt for the future, it is a starting place, but we do not know Nissan's ultimate plant (if even the Z will survive). They could be working on a new engine, platform, components that the 370z could not have had because of initial cost, but now such items like carbon fiber or more aluminum are much cheaper and viable helping keep overall per car cost down but allowing weight reduction.

wanderer1234 · 07-20-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Why do you think if they could do it they would have?
Technology moves forwards, cost are reduced, and the platform sharing is actually fairly new with recent partnerships in the past decade.

You have to take the current generation with a grain of salt for the future, it is a starting place, but we do not know Nissan's ultimate plant (if even the Z will survive). They could be working on a new engine, platform, components that the 370z could not have had because of initial cost, but now such items like carbon fiber or more aluminum are much cheaper and viable helping keep overall per car cost down but allowing weight reduction.

Everyone is entitled to dream and wish. Okay. 😊 Wake me up when it's real.

RicerX · 07-21-2016, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Try shedding 800lbs off that Camero and how much do you think the price will go up? Lol.....

Huh?

Oh... you must have gotten that 800lbs from the weight difference between your beloved Porsche Cayman and the Camaro. Well... the Camaro SS already out-accelerates the GT4 with the extra 800lbs. But if you're really curious as to how that works out in your argument with a weight reduction, you'll be able to get a Z/28 with reduced weight for several thousand less than the GT4, and it will likely walk all over it.

For those of us in the room talking about evolving/redesigning an existing product, the Camaro SS of today shed roughly 300lbs from its previous model. It added 24hp and 35tq. That, along with some suspension revisions, translated to a half a second improvement on a 0-60 time, greater lateral acceleration, and better braking. It is also capable of dipping into the 11s on the quarter mile off the lot when the old model was in the high 12s. (WHAT?!) It also does this for a modest price increase of roughly $3,000 from the previous generation. I will save you some math, since that is hard - that is not even a 10% increase in price.

Now tell me, sir, what kind of ramen-noodle-eating, bud-light-drinking, money saving sorcery is this ****?! Please pinch me... I must be dreaming that a company can significantly upgrade and evolve their product and offer it at a competitive price point.

Ford reduced weight and added power on the Mustang. Mazda SIGNIFICANTLY reduced weight with the Miata and provided a more efficient engine, though down on power, and it translated into a faster car.

We can expect Nissan to do the same. We expect them to do so because they have the tools at their disposal to do so. Follow me into the toolbox below:

The Infiniti Q50 is based on the existing FM platform that upholds the Z and G coupes. It is retooled with lighter weight materials. It is now available with a 400hp twin turbo V6. It makes that power using a modest 14.7psi of boost. That motor produces not only 400hp, but an orgasmic 350lb-ft of torque across 1800-5200 RPMs! It's orgasmic because it's peak torque across a broad range. Feel free to google that whole "power under the curve" concept. Because, in most cases, that translates to BETTER PERFORMANCE.

Now, kids... what did we just learn about our toolbox? A lighter platform that is already built to house a higher performance engine! Both of which are in production! Guess what that means, kids? We have a more powerful business case! We may even be able to stick to a similar price point with our new model Z because... well, not only do we have the tools, but OUR COMPETITION IS ALSO DOING IT!

Why are we in business? TO COMPETE.

A 3100lb Z pushing 400 to 450hp for $45k is what we would call COMPETITIVE. FOR 2016. We aren't trying to be competitive in 1970. Gas isn't 86 cents a gallon. Apples don't cost a nickel. Oldsmobile doesn't make cars.

You can spend your $85k on a niche premium branded car that, despite what you may think, is a limited production car (examples are Cayman GT4, GT-R Nismo) and not what we refer to as a full scale production car (370Z, Camaro SS) and be slower than some other sports cars that cost less, but have a gorgeous, exclusive machine that can perform very well. Or, by your logic, buy a 1991 Ferrari Testarossa and be slower than everyone else on this board, but hey, you have a Ferrari, right? Nothing could possibly be faster for the money you spent - that **** was top of the line, state of the art! NO ONE WILL EVER MAKE THAT KIND OF POWER WITH LESS THAN A FLAT 12! YOU MUST BE DREAMING!

I would quote the rest of your posts and obliterate them accordingly, but I'm too busy dreaming. Wake me up later when I'm right.

NRTim · 07-21-2016, 02:13 PM

It's stupid articles like this that makes me wish the next gen Z came out sooner

Next Nissan Z Won

MagmaRed370z · 07-21-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRTim

It's stupid articles like this that makes me wish the next gen Z came out sooner

Next Nissan Z Won

I read the article and it could come as AWD but I highly doubt it as it is heritage that the Z is RWD. Also, they are joking for sure about FWD. lol

wanderer1234 · 07-21-2016, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

Huh?

Oh... you must have gotten that 800lbs from the weight difference between your beloved Porsche Cayman and the Camaro. Well... the Camaro SS already out-accelerates the GT4 with the extra 800lbs. But if you're really curious as to how that works out in your argument with a weight reduction, you'll be able to get a Z/28 with reduced weight for several thousand less than the GT4, and it will likely walk all over it.

For those of us in the room talking about evolving/redesigning an existing product, the Camaro SS of today shed roughly 300lbs from its previous model. It added 24hp and 35tq. That, along with some suspension revisions, translated to a half a second improvement on a 0-60 time, greater lateral acceleration, and better braking. It is also capable of dipping into the 11s on the quarter mile off the lot when the old model was in the high 12s. (WHAT?!) It also does this for a modest price increase of roughly $3,000 from the previous generation. I will save you some math, since that is hard - that is not even a 10% increase in price.

Now tell me, sir, what kind of ramen-noodle-eating, bud-light-drinking, money saving sorcery is this ****?! Please pinch me... I must be dreaming that a company can significantly upgrade and evolve their product and offer it at a competitive price point.

Ford reduced weight and added power on the Mustang. Mazda SIGNIFICANTLY reduced weight with the Miata and provided a more efficient engine, though down on power, and it translated into a faster car.

We can expect Nissan to do the same. We expect them to do so because they have the tools at their disposal to do so. Follow me into the toolbox below:

The Infiniti Q50 is based on the existing FM platform that upholds the Z and G coupes. It is retooled with lighter weight materials. It is now available with a 400hp twin turbo V6. It makes that power using a modest 14.7psi of boost. That motor produces not only 400hp, but an orgasmic 350lb-ft of torque across 1800-5200 RPMs! It's orgasmic because it's peak torque across a broad range. Feel free to google that whole "power under the curve" concept. Because, in most cases, that translates to BETTER PERFORMANCE.

Now, kids... what did we just learn about our toolbox? A lighter platform that is already built to house a higher performance engine! Both of which are in production! Guess what that means, kids? We have a more powerful business case! We may even be able to stick to a similar price point with our new model Z because... well, not only do we have the tools, but OUR COMPETITION IS ALSO DOING IT!

Why are we in business? TO COMPETE.

A 3100lb Z pushing 400 to 450hp for $45k is what we would call COMPETITIVE. FOR 2016. We aren't trying to be competitive in 1970. Gas isn't 86 cents a gallon. Apples don't cost a nickel. Oldsmobile doesn't make cars.

You can spend your $85k on a niche premium branded car that, despite what you may think, is a limited production car (examples are Cayman GT4, GT-R Nismo) and not what we refer to as a full scale production car (370Z, Camaro SS) and be slower than some other sports cars that cost less, but have a gorgeous, exclusive machine that can perform very well. Or, by your logic, buy a 1991 Ferrari Testarossa and be slower than everyone else on this board, but hey, you have a Ferrari, right? Nothing could possibly be faster for the money you spent - that **** was top of the line, state of the art! NO ONE WILL EVER MAKE THAT KIND OF POWER WITH LESS THAN A FLAT 12! YOU MUST BE DREAMING!

I would quote the rest of your posts and obliterate them accordingly, but I'm too busy dreaming. Wake me up later when I'm right.

Keep dreaming bro. Lol. That's all I can say. It ain't gonna happen because with those numbers the performance is close to GTR performance. Nissan has already said, if you want performance go GTR and stop hanging around the Z. I can't afford a GTR and I'm not bitching about what Nissan has to offer me.

Stop talking about domestic cars such as Camaro's and Mustang's those are a dime a dozen. Everyone and their mom has one. lol. We don't care about them domestic cars, that's why we are on the Z forum. If you do, you shouldn't be here. Lol. And you can't compare V8's to a V6. The VQ engine we have is one of the highest HP NA V6 around. So yeah, your point is invalid.

I understand you want a cheap fast car so you can say, "oh my 45k Z is just as fast as a 120k GTR why would I go that route". That's exactly what Nissan doesn't want to hear. Besides Nissan makes cars for the general crowd. They don't care about the few that bitch and moan about how heavy and low on horse it is. It's not gonna hurt them that one person won't buy it because there's 10 other that will buy it. The ones that want more power and performance will go GTR. That's why they have a super car around and the Z is their sports car. Business 101 bro.

Until it happens, I don't think your wish will come true. Just accept the fact that the Z is probably not gonna change much. Might as well get your Z now before it shrinks in SIZE and POWAH and then you'll really bitch and complain.

RicerX · 07-21-2016, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Keep dreaming bro. Lol. That's all I can say. It ain't gonna happen because with those numbers the performance is close to GTR performance. Nissan has already said, if you want performance go GTR and stop hanging around the Z. I can't afford a GTR and I'm not bitching about what Nissan has to offer me.

Stop talking about domestic cars such as Camaro's and Mustang's those are a dime a dozen. Everyone and their mom has one. lol. We don't care about them domestic cars, that's why we are on the Z forum. If you do, you shouldn't be here. Lol. And you can't compare V8's to a V6. The VQ engine we have is one of the highest HP NA V6 around. So yeah, your point is invalid.

I understand you want a cheap fast car so you can say, "oh my 45k Z is just as fast as a 120k GTR why would I go that route". That's exactly what Nissan doesn't want to hear. Besides Nissan makes cars for the general crowd. They don't care about the few that bitch and moan about how heavy and low on horse it is. It's not gonna hurt them that one person won't buy it because there's 10 other that will buy it. The ones that want more power and performance will go GTR. That's why they have a super car around and the Z is their sports car. Business 101 bro.

Until it happens, I don't think your wish will come true. Just accept the fact that the Z is probably not gonna change much. Might as well get your Z now before it shrinks in SIZE and POWAH and then you'll really bitch and complain.

Your rebuttals remind me of Donald Trump.

"You can't compare V8s to V6s... Because V8s are YUGE."

Should we build a wall around this thread to keep the domestic cars out?

wanderer1234 · 07-22-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

Your rebuttals remind me of Donald Trump.

"You can't compare V8s to V6s... Because V8s are YUGE."

Should we build a wall around this thread to keep the domestic cars out?

I'm not the one comparing V8's to V6's, you are. I'm just pointing out the obvious my friend. You're dreaming way too big, wanting 450+ hp on a 45k Nissan Z. I understand all the cars that were pointed out.

If you can show me a 450+ hp 45k car that weighs 2800-3000 lb I'll beg to differ. Until then stop dreaming about cheap fast cars, it's annoying. Either buy it or don't buy it. Stop complaining about what's being offered. Besides, Nissan doesn't care what you want. You're a just one person. If you're not gonna buy it new it's not gonna affect them.

Oh and to the people out there saying technology evolve....it does but it ain't gonna happen soon and there ain't no 700 hp new GTR yet. When it happens let me know. Y'all people are funny, wanting such a powerful car to be cheap.

Lets all go make more money guys so we can buy a lightweight car with 450+ plus HP. Lol.

Some people can't handle the truth. The truth sucks, I know. We like to dream but at one point we have to wake up.

RicerX · 07-22-2016, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Some people can't handle the truth. The truth sucks, I know.

And some people can't fvcking read.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-21-2016, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer1234

Keep dreaming bro. Lol. That's all I can say. It ain't gonna happen because with those numbers the performance is close to GTR performance. Nissan has already said, if you want performance go GTR and stop hanging around the Z. I can't afford a GTR and I'm not bitching about what Nissan has to offer me.

Stop talking about domestic cars such as Camaro's and Mustang's those are a dime a dozen. Everyone and their mom has one. lol. We don't care about them domestic cars, that's why we are on the Z forum. If you do, you shouldn't be here. Lol. And you can't compare V8's to a V6. The VQ engine we have is one of the highest HP NA V6 around. So yeah, your point is invalid.

I understand you want a cheap fast car so you can say, "oh my 45k Z is just as fast as a 120k GTR why would I go that route". That's exactly what Nissan doesn't want to hear. Besides Nissan makes cars for the general crowd. They don't care about the few that bitch and moan about how heavy and low on horse it is. It's not gonna hurt them that one person won't buy it because there's 10 other that will buy it. The ones that want more power and performance will go GTR. That's why they have a super car around and the Z is their sports car. Business 101 bro.

Until it happens, I don't think your wish will come true. Just accept the fact that the Z is probably not gonna change much. Might as well get your Z now before it shrinks in SIZE and POWAH and then you'll really bitch and complain.

Nobody has to get nothing now cuz my brother already has a luxury car that performs well and if he goes into another car. He can easily spend a Lil more cash and upgrade.

You are fairly lost in the concept Ricer is bringing up. He's using the evolution of muscle as an example of how technology can change suddenly....

But you're too agenda driven and argumentative to even grasp a well thought out analysis. You're just going in circles with what is purely a poorly thought out speculation.

Now it may all be speculation from every one of us, but some of us have a grasp on what's going on in the car world and analyzing the rumor mill.... And others are creating their own scenarios purely from the rumor mill and their own personal expectations whether positive or negative.

Tensile steel and carbon fiber has gotten cheaper. Body creasing is 4X more cost effective than a decade ago. This is why cars are getting so many dramatic lines.

The GTR is expected to have well over 700HP next generation. So how would the next gen Z be close to GTR power WITH ONLY 450HP???

Your analysis is weak because you're factoring has little or no basis on fiscal achievement or modern competitive spirit.

The Alfa 4c has a full carbon fiber monocoque, dual clutch transmission 240HP and 2400lbs for $60,000. It's built like a budget Ferrari. It's 2300lbs in Europe and has a very expensive mid engine layout. It accelerates in the mid 12's and gets to 60 in the low 4's. So many different vehicles doing amazing things that in reality a 3,000lb 400HP car doesn't seem so radical. It actually seems like the next step. Like when a stand v8 had 305HP and the Z came 350lbs lighter and had 27 more HP. It's amazing how some of y'all think.
The camaro is subjugated to the same safety constraints as the Z and they lost a 300lb average. I don't get what's the miraculous ness of next gen weight loss. But hey.... I do see how some people believe it won't be cost effective for Nissan. But neither is it a marvel of instability. So most of us are divided with weight. But why do we have to shoot each other down based on not seeing eye to eye? That said....

We're not dreaming, we're speculating and you're just contradicting cuz you wanna be a douche. Not because you're bringing anything to the table in terms of information. Your speculations are based on nonsense and you ending every low grade comment with "lol". While we read your posts we're all going "smh".

At the end of the day.... half of us can go Porsche, Audi, BMW BUT We want a CREDIBLE tuner car because we do it for the culture...

And we speculate as such cuz we believe Nissan wants to feed the enthusiasts market. If you don't like Ricer or any of us having high expectations? You have the right to voice an opinion. But watch how you come at people. Cuz this is a opinion conversation. Not your stage to try to shut people down... Especially when your arguments come with skewed factoids that are missing parts like the GTR argument... Anyway dude. Grow up.

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07-21-2016, 02:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
NRTim Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nowhere,TX Age: 38 Posts: 131 Drives: 2017 ??? Rep Power: 16	It's stupid articles like this that makes me wish the next gen Z came out sooner Next Nissan Z Won