[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

VidkidZ · 06-18-2016, 09:42 PM

With Nissan marketing pushing the 370z as the ultimate drifting car, its clear that the q60 platform and its drive by wire system isn't up to what makes a Z. Maybe next year.

RicerX · 06-18-2016, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VidkidZ

With Nissan marketing pushing the 370z as the ultimate drifting car, its clear that the q60 platform and its drive by wire system isn't up to what makes a Z. Maybe next year.

... So you've driven a car that's not out yet? Please share some details!

I'm also going to assume you mean steer by wire. Your Z is drive by wire, just like most vehicles. The steer by wire system is optional, and by all means, if anyone ever drives the new Q50 or Q60, skip that garbage. It's not ready for prime time just yet.

Davey · 06-19-2016, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

You're stretching the dollars a little.

A Miata starts at $25K, the FR-S $26K, and the Z at 30K, rounding up. And, the Corvette starts at $55K, which is $13K more than the NISMO.

I don't know about you, but I'm not that comfortable throwing the word "only" in front of $13K when I'm talking about relatively useless depreciating assets like 2-seat cars that probably can't function as anything other than a weekend toy very effectively. Not that you did, but, point being, $10K is a lot of ******* money to most people.

Does a Z "do" 4K more than an FR-S? Or $5K more than a Miata?

Does a Z do everything you need for $23K less than a Corvette?

Is the NISMO worth $10K more than a base Z, even though it isn't actually faster?

These are subjective questions, but my answer is "Yes."

Further, consider the Cayman, which costs a little more than $20K more than the 370Z and has a slower 0-60 time. How can Porsche justify that kind of performance to dollar ratio? Why wouldn't you just buy a Corvette instead, for the same money? I guess *you* would, but I would not.

The Z needs to be improved, but it's still a good value vs. the Camaro and Mustang if you want a car that feels like a sports car and not a fat tub of V8 boat for your $30K (I've driven the new Mustang and it's great but it's no Z), given that you don't really care that you're a few 10ths slower in the quarter mile. It's still a good value compared to the Corvette and Cayman because it provides some of the experience of a powerful sports car for tens of thousands less. It's still a good value compared to the Miata and FR-S because it provides some of the experience of an inexpensive driver-focused car without being underpowered.

I'm not really sure what more you could expect for $30K.

Davey · 06-19-2016, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

I would like a Z like the current Z with some enhancements like improved brake cooling, no fuel starvation, less intrusive Vehicle Stability Assistance mode, a Torsen diff, without having to resort to the aftermarket.

It could stand to be lighter, too.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-19-2016, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

You're stretching the dollars a little.

A Miata starts at $25K, the FR-S $26K, and the Z at 30K, rounding up. And, the Corvette starts at $55K, which is $13K more than the NISMO.

I don't know about you, but I'm not that comfortable throwing the word "only" in front of $13K when I'm talking about relatively useless depreciating assets like 2-seat cars that probably can't function as anything other than a weekend toy very effectively. Not that you did, but, point being, $10K is a lot of ******* money to most people.

Does a Z "do" 4K more than an FR-S? Or $5K more than a Miata?

Does a Z do everything you need for $23K less than a Corvette?

Is the NISMO worth $10K more than a base Z, even though it isn't actually faster?

These are subjective questions, but my answer is "Yes."

Further, consider the Cayman, which costs a little more than $20K more than the 370Z and has a slower 0-60 time. How can Porsche justify that kind of performance to dollar ratio? Why wouldn't you just buy a Corvette instead, for the same money? I guess *you* would, but I would not.

The Z needs to be improved, but it's still a good value vs. the Camaro and Mustang if you want a car that feels like a sports car and not a fat tub of V8 boat for your $30K (I've driven the new Mustang and it's great but it's no Z), given that you don't really care that you're a few 10ths slower in the quarter mile. It's still a good value compared to the Corvette and Cayman because it provides some of the experience of a powerful sports car for tens of thousands less. It's still a good value compared to the Miata and FR-S because it provides some of the experience of an inexpensive driver-focused car without being underpowered.

I'm not really sure what more you could expect for $30K.

I agree with every philosophy you speak of concerning the Z. In my opinion, the Z is a better performance value than people give it credit for. And I guess maybe at $30k. It is a good value.

But the real issue here are other aspects of the Z. Remember, us O.G.'s were haggling for the $30k before 2013 when Nissan decided to go back to 09 pricing. We saw nearly $33,000 as a base price.And up top the Nismo could lose about $3,000.

What I think the real issue here is at 3 and 6 years Nissan should have done more to update , materials and the gauge cowel to get smoothed out in a refresh. They had opportunities to add the foglight, upgrade the stereo with Bluetooth and USB, much earlier in the game. They could have tuned the exhaust. Also been more proactive with the CSC failure and a couple of other situations.

As sophomoric as this may sound.... Unfortunately, in a consumer driven society, car companies create the competitive edge with there advertising and engineering claims. It's what sells sports cars. Nissan is playing in a very competitive segment. We'd like to see updates if we're not going to get a new sports car in the traditional 6 year life cycle.

Another thing is. Even though we get Mr. Myagi news from nissan. We don't get the type of news that keeps the consumer excited about the brand.
Loyalists and enthusiasts want to be tantalized. They want to know their car company is working hard at that next level driving experience. Nissan only does that for GT-R and leaf owners. Even Juke owners get more enthusiast attention than we do. Not cool.

This kind of sways people to seeing the Z worse than it is. Because everyone else's car companies engage with them on any financial level. Chevy, Ford, BMW, Dodge, Mercedes, etc. All are creating excitement and buzz and they all have cars in the same price arena as our Z's.

Old heads are ready for the next level. We've been in a Z34 a Looooong Time.

Godzilla35 · 06-20-2016, 02:42 AM

^exactly... I am hoping with a new Z platform, Nissan can bring some excitement back to the brand. When Scion dropped the FRS, they treated first few of us extremely well. Even gave us hotel rooms and passes to SEMA. With the likes of Chris Forsberg and other Nissan Racing drivers, you would think that they would push to "leak" some tidbits, but all I hear is that we aren't getting the iDX anymore (bummer as I thought the NISMO version had potential)... I even heard rumors that it was based on a 240SX wheelbase (I need a drift car Nissan are you listening???) haha...

In any case. If they add weight, which let's be honest, is generally speaking a trend nowadays... the 400hp mark for the standard model doesn't seem to be a big stretch to me. Maybe they will have a 250-300hp "base" model but if they don't bring 400hp to the table, who are they competing with then? Rumors say the new Genesis will even have more than 300hp+...

Please. Insiders. Anyone. ... there has to be SOME info around? I am from the GTR crowd so I know that the GTR is set for the next gen and it is in development (the R35 platform is maxed out). One would think the Z would have more hub-hub since it is a presumably better selling / more accessible car....?....

Dirk McGurck · 06-20-2016, 06:00 AM

Most cars add weight with redesigns because the companies make them larger. There are still many Japanese cars that stayed the same weight or lost weight from one model year to the next, so the Z doesn't have to put on weight.

Also, the Genesis already has more than 300hp. It could stand to lose weight, but it isn't really aimed at the Z, it's marched better with the piggy Gs.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-20-2016, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla35

^exactly... I am hoping with a new Z platform, Nissan can bring some excitement back to the brand. When Scion dropped the FRS, they treated first few of us extremely well. Even gave us hotel rooms and passes to SEMA. With the likes of Chris Forsberg and other Nissan Racing drivers, you would think that they would push to "leak" some tidbits, but all I hear is that we aren't getting the iDX anymore (bummer as I thought the NISMO version had potential)... I even heard rumors that it was based on a 240SX wheelbase (I need a drift car Nissan are you listening???) haha...

In any case. If they add weight, which let's be honest, is generally speaking a trend nowadays... the 400hp mark for the standard model doesn't seem to be a big stretch to me. Maybe they will have a 250-300hp "base" model but if they don't bring 400hp to the table, who are they competing with then? Rumors say the new Genesis will even have more than 300hp+...

Please. Insiders. Anyone. ... there has to be SOME info around? I am from the GTR crowd so I know that the GTR is set for the next gen and it is in development (the R35 platform is maxed out). One would think the Z would have more hub-hub since it is a presumably better selling / more accessible car....?....

Exactly. The affordable car should be getting the buzz..

The G37 is about 200lbs heavier than the Q50 so I'm not too worried about weight.

But our crowd is definitely the most unsupported enthusiast crowd, by the company it supports. Even Hyundai gets involved with the Gencoupe crowd.

Jordo! · 06-20-2016, 09:31 PM

Based on everything else that's been indicated by Nissan, and also keeping the past decade or so of the car's re-brith in mind, here is what to expect:

1. It will be debuted in 2018

2. It will weigh about the same and cost about the same as current offering.

3. It will come it at least three trims (not counting targa or verts): Regular, Sport, Nismo. A fourth tier, Nismo Turbo is possible, assuming it isn't simply the only "Nismo" badged option, which is quite likely.

4. Expect overall performance across the board to be a bit better than it's advertised for the Q60, in a proportionate degree to the current difference.

Naturally, the boosted option will have lots and lots of aftermarket potential. If you plan to boost, just buy that one and lump the extra cost up front, rather than boosting the N/A motor -- less blown engines.

5. Without starting a whole debate over "sports car purity" or whatever, expect all tiers to have a 7-AT option, and all but the base to have a (viscous) LSD.

jaedub · 06-20-2016, 09:46 PM

Is the Z really going to have different engine trim? I thought all were supposed to have the V6 turbo from the Q60.

To those stating that the Z will have different engine trim, where did you guys get your sources from?

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-20-2016, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Based on everything else that's been indicated by Nissan, and also keeping the past decade or so of the car's re-brith in mind, here is what to expect:

1. It will be debuted in 2018

2. It will weigh about the same and cost about the same as current offering.

3. It will come it at least three trims (not counting targa or verts): Regular, Sport, Nismo. A fourth tier, Nismo Turbo is possible, assuming it isn't simply the only "Nismo" badged option, which is quite likely.

4. Expect overall performance across the board to be a bit better than it's advertised for the Q60, in a proportionate degree to the current difference.

Naturally, the boosted option will have lots and lots of aftermarket potential. If you plan to boost, just buy that one and lump the extra cost up front, rather than boosting the N/A motor -- less blown engines.

5. Without starting a whole debate over "sports car purity" or whatever, expect all tiers to have a 7-AT option, and all but the base to have a (viscous) LSD.

Weight is going down. That's for sure.

Both GT-R and Z are getting dramatic weight reduction. I'm expecting 200lbs on the v6 turbo.... 300lbs on the turbo 4.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-20-2016, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaedub

Is the Z really going to have different engine trim? I thought all were supposed to have the V6 turbo from the Q60.

To those stating that the Z will have different engine trim, where did you guys get your sources from?

Yes multiple engines were already confirmed by Nissan as the Q60 has 2 engines and the 6 has two different tunes.

VidkidZ · 06-21-2016, 12:19 AM

Twin turbo options and 400+hp is probably on the menu for the Z35 Nismo. While I havent thrashed the drive by wire steering from the Q50 Red.. IMO... It looks like the platform is there.. It has promise... Just needs a lot of tuning over the next 6+ months to deliver... https://youtu.be/fM2OMA1pnh0

brucelidat · 06-21-2016, 03:16 AM

43-45k for a 400hp tt Nismo that has better NVH without adding weight (and enough storage for my work equipment) and I am in. Make it so Nissan before an electric car and it's green-ness and instant torque tempt me.

FPenvy · 06-21-2016, 08:13 AM

Why do I keep seeing people saying that the nismo will be the 400hp and the regular Z only 300. That would be the most retarded thing Nissan could ever do. Imo the Z will be 400 and the nismo will be a tuned version at 430-450hp

06-20-2016, 02:42 AM	#1941 (permalink)
Godzilla35 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: LA / SD Posts: 17 Drives: 04 G35 coupe 5AT Rep Power: 15	^exactly... I am hoping with a new Z platform, Nissan can bring some excitement back to the brand. When Scion dropped the FRS, they treated first few of us extremely well. Even gave us hotel rooms and passes to SEMA. With the likes of Chris Forsberg and other Nissan Racing drivers, you would think that they would push to "leak" some tidbits, but all I hear is that we aren't getting the iDX anymore (bummer as I thought the NISMO version had potential)... I even heard rumors that it was based on a 240SX wheelbase (I need a drift car Nissan are you listening???) haha... In any case. If they add weight, which let's be honest, is generally speaking a trend nowadays... the 400hp mark for the standard model doesn't seem to be a big stretch to me. Maybe they will have a 250-300hp "base" model but if they don't bring 400hp to the table, who are they competing with then? Rumors say the new Genesis will even have more than 300hp+... Please. Insiders. Anyone. ... there has to be SOME info around? I am from the GTR crowd so I know that the GTR is set for the next gen and it is in development (the R35 platform is maxed out). One would think the Z would have more hub-hub since it is a presumably better selling / more accessible car....?.... UNKNOWN_370 likes this.

06-20-2016, 06:00 AM	#1942 (permalink)
Dirk McGurck Track Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Delaware Posts: 715 Drives: 09 MB 370Z Touring Rep Power: 21	Most cars add weight with redesigns because the companies make them larger. There are still many Japanese cars that stayed the same weight or lost weight from one model year to the next, so the Z doesn't have to put on weight. Also, the Genesis already has more than 300hp. It could stand to lose weight, but it isn't really aimed at the Z, it's marched better with the piggy Gs. __________________ 2009 370Z Touring with Sport

06-20-2016, 09:31 PM	#1944 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Based on everything else that's been indicated by Nissan, and also keeping the past decade or so of the car's re-brith in mind, here is what to expect: 1. It will be debuted in 2018 2. It will weigh about the same and cost about the same as current offering. 3. It will come it at least three trims (not counting targa or verts): Regular, Sport, Nismo. A fourth tier, Nismo Turbo is possible, assuming it isn't simply the only "Nismo" badged option, which is quite likely. 4. Expect overall performance across the board to be a bit better than it's advertised for the Q60, in a proportionate degree to the current difference. Naturally, the boosted option will have lots and lots of aftermarket potential. If you plan to boost, just buy that one and lump the extra cost up front, rather than boosting the N/A motor -- less blown engines. 5. Without starting a whole debate over "sports car purity" or whatever, expect all tiers to have a 7-AT option, and all but the base to have a (viscous) LSD. MagmaRed370z likes this. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

06-21-2016, 03:16 AM	#1949 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 31	43-45k for a 400hp tt Nismo that has better NVH without adding weight (and enough storage for my work equipment) and I am in. Make it so Nissan before an electric car and it's green-ness and instant torque tempt me. cautupwitdm likes this. __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

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06-18-2016, 09:42 PM	#1936 (permalink)
VidkidZ Base Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 6 Drives: 09 Touring 7AT Rep Power: 10	With Nissan marketing pushing the 370z as the ultimate drifting car, its clear that the q60 platform and its drive by wire system isn't up to what makes a Z. Maybe next year.

06-20-2016, 09:46 PM	#1945 (permalink)
jaedub Track Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 906 Drives: 2010 Black 370Z MT Rep Power: 305	Is the Z really going to have different engine trim? I thought all were supposed to have the V6 turbo from the Q60. To those stating that the Z will have different engine trim, where did you guys get your sources from?

06-21-2016, 12:19 AM	#1948 (permalink)
VidkidZ Base Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 6 Drives: 09 Touring 7AT Rep Power: 10	Twin turbo options and 400+hp is probably on the menu for the Z35 Nismo. While I havent thrashed the drive by wire steering from the Q50 Red.. IMO... It looks like the platform is there.. It has promise... Just needs a lot of tuning over the next 6+ months to deliver... https://youtu.be/fM2OMA1pnh0