[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

mishuko

add in safety and then the insulation because all the whiners comparing the road noise to luxury cars and then you're hitting back to the 3300 mark.

drop the size of the engine and add roids? the pumbing would probably make up the difference in weight saved in a smaller engine.

we're not getting any lighter these days with all these epa/safety targets that need to be met.

RicerX

They're at 350hp with a maxed out OEM 3.7L V6. How do you propose they eek out an extra 25hp from that motor while maintaining all the environmental requirements that they're bound to? Furthermore, how do you propose to do that while maintaining or reducing weight on the powertrain alone? Finally, how would you plan to capture buyers outside the traditional Z demographic to make it a sales success with "only an additional 25hp" over the outgoing model? Casual sports/sporty car buyers don't care about weight, otherwise you wouldn't see any Challengers on the roads (CASUAL buyers - the type that don't distinguish between pony cars and sports cars, the type that the Z needs conquest sales from to make a business case for Nissan).

Don't forget - turbos add weight. A 3.7 VQ needs a platform large enough to carry it, so I wouldn't bank on reducing the overall platform size from the 370, and that's if you don't go up in displacement. A 3.0L V6 TT is going to take a similar amount of room when you add turbo hardware and the necessary cooling components. You probably don't want to reduce the vehicle's track or wheelbase in their respective widths and lengths if you want to use the 370 as a baseline in performance numbers. If you rework the 3.7 with direct injection, any performance gains going DI on an NA platform will likely be offset in hardware revisions such as the inclusion of cam-driven fuel pumps, etc.

I fail to see where you get an extra 25hp from where we are and reduce weight by 200lbs. After all, what you're looking for is a net gain in performance from a 370, right?

There is a paradigm in car buying today - you can buy a sports car that has two (and ONLY two) of the three following qualities: cheap, fast, lightweight.

You can buy a car that is cheap and fast, but not lightweight.
You can buy a car that is lightweight and cheap, but not fast.

And finally, you can buy a car that is lightweight and fast, but it won't be cheap.

This thread is precisely why Nissan has no idea what to do with the Z - its own buyers don't know what the hell they want besides a unicorn, and there aren't any automakers in the business of building unicorns.

I can bet Nissan's research study on current Z owners looks a lot like this:
22% want the car to be faster and more powerful
25% want the car to be cheaper and lighter
22% want the car to be lighter and more powerful
31% want a GT-R but can't afford it.

Of those buyers, 68% won't buy one new, 12% can't afford one, and 20% will be mad that it doesn't have enough power.

That's all from me for the day.

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wanderer1234

I agree with the above post. If you want fast and lightweight it ain't cheap. If you want cheap and lightweight it won't be fast. If you want fast and cheap it won't be lightweight. If you want fast and lightweight like me, chances are you can't afford it like me.

If you have money, go buy the Porsche Cayman GTS or GT4 which is lightweight and fast for 75-85k.

Bottom line is, most Z owners like me want the car to gain power and lose weight but already complain that the Nismo is too expensive at 41999. Let's just all be happy Nissan is still making a RWD 2 seater sports car. There's not many of those around nowadays. Enjoy the car while it lasts! We don't know when it's going to get discontinued.

triso07

I refuse to accept that with all the engineering prowess behind Nissan they can't produce a V6 that has 375hp and drop 1-200lbs of weight. It's not unrealistic. It might be unrealistic with the current VQ motor, but this is a complete overhaul of a car.

As for fuel savings, Nissan already has a ton of cars that are economical. They can make the Z as efficient as it can be for a sports car and call it a day.

Also, if you are concerned about price there is a very easy solution:

4 banger entry model with no frills for cheap
NA 6 sport model for more money
Nismo Turbo model for even more money

It's not rocket science. America has done this for years with the Mustang and Camaro.

triso07

Go buy a Porsche is a stupid response.

America is pushing the boundaries for performance per dollar but Nissan can't? ********. This is excuse making.

Rusty

The Porsche Cayman GT4 is sold out. Don't even bother trying to find one from what I've read. Also Porsche said that they're going with smaller motors with turbo's. The 911's will have 3.0L twins turbos with 385hp for 2017.

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FPenvy

one was at cars and coffee last week all blacked out. sexy in person....sadly still an outdated manual gearbox.

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triso07

The bottom line is Nissan was charging too much for a car that was being outperformed in its segment (yes I know it technically isn't a muscle car competitor, but we both agree casual buyers and performance on a budget buyers are cross shopping the two).

People were clamoring for Nissan to add more performance to the 370z but it stayed out of the game and as a result got stale. I still love that car, but I'm a sports car lover, and probably in the minority. They kept coming out with Nismo models that had marginal HP and handling increases, but charged a lot more money for them.

RicerX

You are all over the place.

You're not considering the business aspect of it at all. They can't (or won't) afford to make an engine specifically for this car, much less three of them. They've already committed to a V6 twin turbo motor that will likely get dropped into the Q50 and is confirmed in the Q60. That motor will not be lighter than the VQ37, but if it is, it will not be by much. Think about it - should Nissan use THREE different engines, you have a platform design challenge already. That means the lowest common denominator for design has to accommodate the largest engine. How are you going to downsize the chassis? You're not. Go look at the engine bay of an Infiniti M56 and compare it to an Infiniti M37. That car is almost a foot longer in the nose so it can accommodate a 5.6L V8.

Your master plan of three engine models to take care of pricing is totally hosed. A turbo 4 Z (which will be needed to move the weight of the platform that will have to hold an NA 6 and turbo 6) will be no less than $25k. Which means a regular V6 will be at the same price as the current 370, and a twin turbo nismo model will be in the $50k range, guaranteed. Guess what's going to happen with that? The top model will hardly sell and be discontinued. The midrange model won't be terribly competitive. The bottom model will depend solely on the health of the market at the BRZ and Miata level, which isn't looking good for anything except the Miata.

Fuel efficiency and emissions is a completely different argument. You can't draw a straight line between the two.

Finally - when in the blue **** have the Camaro or Mustang ever lost weight while gaining power?

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RicerX

So which segment does the Z compete in? Furthermore, how is Nissan charging too much for it versus its alternatives?

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GZ3

it needs to say in the segment its getting raped in. You can stroll into a ford dealer and pick up a 5.0 for the price of a Z, get a base model gt350 once mark up is over for cheaper than a NISMO, go to a chevy dealer and get an SS or 1LE for the price of a Z, A dodge dealer get a scat pack challenger or charger for less than a NISMO, Challenger for the same as a Z, ...all cars that will easily beat a Z. NISSAN needs to wake up, put a turbo 6 good for about 400/400, or just do the Heritage a favor and retire it. Maybe come back a few years from now when they are ready to get their heads out of their ***'

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09 GT-R
12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN
12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

triso07

No you're right Ricer we should just accept our new crossover overlords ... because business case.

Not really sure how I'm "all over the place". I just don't think you like that I disagree with you.

As for Camaro and Mustang, I don't believe anywhere in my post I referred to them losing weight and gaining power. I was referring to the multiple levels of trim offered by Ford and Chevy for their muscle cars. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot with this one though since the new Camaro is losing weight and adding power lol. By the way Ford and Chevy are listening to their target audience and building cars those people want to buy, which is why they are selling so successfully. Can you say the same for Nissan and the Z?

As for the motor. They won't make one specifically for this car is the appropriate wording. A turbo 6 pulled from the Q50 would be fine, even if it's heavier. However that turbo 6 will need to make some solid power. They can't throw it in with 350hp especially if there's a weight gain. If Nissan can't lose some weight on the Z then it needs to make up for that in power levels. Something has to give on one end or the other to pull some more performance out of the car.

Nissan needs to decide what the Z is.

Is it a budget Cayman sports car? If so slightly lighter weight, a little more power, and some modernizing will do it.

Is it a budget sporty performance coupe that competes with Americas big 3? If it is, then weight can stay right were it is, throw a turbo motor in, and bump power enough so that performance is on par with the muscle cars.

I certainly don't view it as a BRZ/Genesis/Miata competitor, but if they do then god help us.

Z_ealot

A base model gt350 has an msrp of just a hair below $48k so you're a bit off on the nismo comparison, but yeah a base 5.0 isn't off by much compared to the price of a base Z

cranzy

So, some of you are saying that we shouldn't expect from Nissan improvement of the Z specs. Are you dumb or what? If there is no weight reduction or power gain, I hardly believe any of us will replace their Z just based on looks. If that's the case and Nissan can't engineer a new generation Z then they will just discontinue the fairlady and reborn the Silvia here in the U.S. That's my 0.02$ on the topic

P.s. oh and go ahead buy an American muscle car, I love crushing Terminators, Cobras and other **** on the track where handling matters.

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GZ3

nismo Z's are going for 48-49k here in texas. I can snap a pic later...its ridicules

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09 GT-R
12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN
12'+13' 5.0 SOLD