[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

WI_Hedgehog · 02-17-2016, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

If you think the GRIP Z is an SUV? The grip Z weighs 2,500lbs.

If you consider the juke an SUV? It weighs 2,800lbs.

The juke is 500lbs lighter than a Z

The juke was the first in a new generation of lightweight vehicles for the Z.

Do you guys know my 2008 altima 3.5 said on the stickers the door that it weighed 3100lbs? My old altima was 132lbs lighter than the 09 base/manual Z

The thinking behind weight in this thread is EXTREMELY limited.

The Gripz is a concept vehicle with a revised version of the Leaf EV's electric motor. The doors won't work, at least not well; Nissan doesn't have the build quality nor internal bracing to make them work reliably. I have a thin-tire vehicle, hit a pothole the size of a brick and the rim is done--they probably won't make production. Before you flame me for those statements, I ordered a 2015 Murano Platinum and 2015 370Z from Japan, both custom built, so I'm not negative on Nissan. Bottom line: The Gripz doesn't [yet] exist, and when it does it won't look like the concept vehicle nor compare to the traditional Z heritage.

The Juke is all about color choices, not quality. Like most recent Nissan products the styling and features are superb, the underlying build is the same hacked-and-stitched crap they've been producing elsewhere. If you want a tiny hipster/hamster taxi with large footprint and no cargo space, get that. If you want a somewhat exclusive race car with large footprint, the same cargo space, and decent build quality, get the Z--it sure won't damage your manhood like the hamster-mobile.

The draw of the Z is good value for the money. Other than the poor choice of plastic in the clutch assembly, it's reliable, fun, fast, and looks good. It doesn't have the deep curves, insane power, top traction, nor price tag of more expensive cars, and with a single twin-scroll turbo, exhaust, and clutch pack it's a crazy-fun squirrely ride. Swap some engine parts, juice the boost, and ya got 1,000 HP and a $70,000+ car for $50,000.

The Z doesn't gain the attraction of some other "classic" cars, but it is a classic, to the extent the 350Z has made every Fast-and-Furious movie except Five, that was a 370Z. With Japanese sourced parts the U.S. cars have been very capable.

Is there a market for the next Z is the question. The global economy is tanking, thanks to the guys that aren't in the news bleeding the peasants for exorbitant taxes--long live the king. Who can afford one? The Z hits that middle-market that was mostly untapped, the just-above-middle-class zone with disposable income, which allowed upper-lower-income passionate car guys to buy new instead of re-building used and still get a lot of rip, right out of the box, plus reliability. The upgrades from there are bolt-ons, no hard work involved. That group is down-sized. You're either scrapping to support your family and pay mandatory "health insurance" and the resulting uncovered medical bills, or you're the foam above the coffee-that thin layer of froth. Will there be enough of "the right people" to make the next generation race car practical--that's the question.

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-18-2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI_Hedgehog

The Gripz is a concept vehicle with a revised version of the Leaf EV's electric motor. The doors won't work, at least not well; Nissan doesn't have the build quality nor internal bracing to make them work reliably. I have a thin-tire vehicle, hit a pothole the size of a brick and the rim is done--they probably won't make production. Before you flame me for those statements, I ordered a 2015 Murano Platinum and 2015 370Z from Japan, both custom built, so I'm not negative on Nissan. Bottom line: The Gripz doesn't [yet] exist, and when it does it won't look like the concept vehicle nor compare to the traditional Z heritage.

The Juke is all about color choices, not quality. Like most recent Nissan products the styling and features are superb, the underlying build is the same hacked-and-stitched crap they've been producing elsewhere. If you want a tiny hipster/hamster taxi with large footprint and no cargo space, get that. If you want a somewhat exclusive race car with large footprint, the same cargo space, and decent build quality, get the Z--it sure won't damage your manhood like the hamster-mobile.

The draw of the Z is good value for the money. Other than the poor choice of plastic in the clutch assembly, it's reliable, fun, fast, and looks good. It doesn't have the deep curves, insane power, top traction, nor price tag of more expensive cars, and with a single twin-scroll turbo, exhaust, and clutch pack it's a crazy-fun squirrely ride. Swap some engine parts, juice the boost, and ya got 1,000 HP and a $70,000+ car for $50,000.

The Z doesn't gain the attraction of some other "classic" cars, but it is a classic, to the extent the 350Z has made every Fast-and-Furious movie except Five, that was a 370Z. With Japanese sourced parts the U.S. cars have been very capable.

Is there a market for the next Z is the question. The global economy is tanking, thanks to the guys that aren't in the news bleeding the peasants for exorbitant taxes--long live the king. Who can afford one? The Z hits that middle-market that was mostly untapped, the just-above-middle-class zone with disposable income, which allowed upper-lower-income passionate car guys to buy new instead of re-building used and still get a lot of rip, right out of the box, plus reliability. The upgrades from there are bolt-ons, no hard work involved. That group is down-sized. You're either scrapping to support your family and pay mandatory "health insurance" and the resulting uncovered medical bills, or you're the foam above the coffee-that thin layer of froth. Will there be enough of "the right people" to make the next generation race car practical--that's the question.

All of that info about the grip and juke is basically useless information. Except for the fact it has all that shyt and is still AWD and 2500lbs. It's still a super light chassis and the key words about what I said about the grip Z... "It's a case study"!!!!

We're in the middle of the first performance wars since the 90's ... I don't see how the global economy is suffering that much when we've hit a record for all new car models over the last 3 years. Those economics contradict what's happening.

SS_Firehawk · 02-17-2016, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

If you think the GRIP Z is an SUV? The grip Z weighs 2,500lbs.

If you consider the juke an SUV? It weighs 2,800lbs.

The juke is 500lbs lighter than a Z

The juke is 500lbs lighter than a Z

The juke was the first in a new generation of lightweight vehicles for the Z.

Do you guys know my 2008 altima 3.5 said on the stickers the door that it weighed 3100lbs? My old altima was 132lbs lighter than the 09 base/manual Z

The thinking behind weight in this thread is EXTREMELY limited.

So to bring you up to speed, the current Altima weighs around 3,450 lbs.
That grip concept is a pipe dream. The Juke is a FWD and AWD platform, not RWD. FWD weighs less because the drive wheels are right next to the engine. So I'm not being far fetched at all. You're quoting the 1.6L FWD Juke, not the AWD. the AWD weighs as much as a base Z.

The Z already starts at $30k for a stripper of a car. You're looking at $36, for a sport tech and touring models. Nismos and convertibles are the only overpriced models. I think everyone here would be happy paying Nismo money for 400hp. They won't like paying $60k unless the car starts eating vettes again, and that will require more than 400hp. And for the record, brand new Vettes weigh as much as the Z. You'd think they would try and drop the weight of those a lot more if they could? That's a $55,000 car.

Second piece you fail to realize is that to make a stiff structure, that adds weight. With new crash test requirements, clever engineering will need to be done to maintain similar chassis weight or even less.

You also fail to realize that bigger brakes weigh more, bigger wheels weigh more, a larger radiator, additional cooling, beefier clutch, transmission, thicker roll bars, the turbos, the strut bar (front and inverted rear), and all the little luxury features people are asking for.

I'm comfortable with the 3200 number. It definitely won't be 3,100lbs. The car is already using aluminum body panels, carbon driveshaft, forged wheels, aluminum suspension bits, undersized the radiator, crap oil cooler, and the wheelbase is only 100". There isn't a lot left to take off without spending a lot of money for magnesium and carbon.

kay.zee · 02-17-2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

So to bring you up to speed, the current Altima weighs around 3,450 lbs.
That grip concept is a pipe dream. The Juke is a FWD and AWD platform, not RWD. FWD weighs less because the drive wheels are right next to the engine. So I'm not being far fetched at all. You're quoting the 1.6L FWD Juke, not the AWD. the AWD weighs as much as a base Z.

The Z already starts at $30k for a stripper of a car. You're looking at $36, for a sport tech and touring models. Nismos and convertibles are the only overpriced models. I think everyone here would be happy paying Nismo money for 400hp. They won't like paying $60k unless the car starts eating vettes again, and that will require more than 400hp. And for the record, brand new Vettes weigh as much as the Z. You'd think they would try and drop the weight of those a lot more if they could? That's a $55,000 car.

Second piece you fail to realize is that to make a stiff structure, that adds weight. With new crash test requirements, clever engineering will need to be done to maintain similar chassis weight or even less.

You also fail to realize that bigger brakes weigh more, bigger wheels weigh more, a larger radiator, additional cooling, beefier clutch, transmission, thicker roll bars, the turbos, the strut bar (front and inverted rear), and all the little luxury features people are asking for.

I'm comfortable with the 3200 number. It definitely won't be 3,100lbs. The car is already using aluminum body panels, carbon driveshaft, forged wheels, aluminum suspension bits, undersized the radiator, crap oil cooler, and the wheelbase is only 100". There isn't a lot left to take off without spending a lot of money for magnesium and carbon.

Great post man, I highly doubt Nissan is going to spend all those production costs just to give some niche Z fans what they want..

It's a bad market spot for Nissan unless they get into Civic SI/Fiesta ST/GTI territory and release some sort of turbo hatch or IDX type little car. But they cancelled the IDX so i doubt even that happens. They are missing out bigtime, the Ford Focus RS is being sold above MSRP and selling like crazy demand. The GOLF R is sold at msrp or above at every dealer with high demand. Nissan could make sort of hot hatch right now and be competitive for enthusiasts but no.....I'm still hoping they are working on something though.

Mancub · 02-17-2016, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kay.zee

Great post man, I highly doubt Nissan is going to spend all those production costs just to give some niche Z fans what they want..

It's a bad market spot for Nissan unless they get into Civic SI/Fiesta ST/GTI territory and release some sort of turbo hatch or IDX type little car. But they cancelled the IDX so i doubt even that happens. They are missing out bigtime, the Ford Focus RS is being sold above MSRP and selling like crazy demand. The GOLF R is sold at msrp or above at every dealer with high demand. Nissan could make sort of hot hatch right now and be competitive for enthusiasts but no.....I'm still hoping they are working on something though.

So yes, you are correct. They are definitely looking to compete with the Golf and Focus, but I think keep some of the original rwd coupe flavor

http://www.caradvice.com.au/359921/r...re-affordable/

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-18-2016, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

So to bring you up to speed, the current Altima weighs around 3,450 lbs.
That grip concept is a pipe dream. The Juke is a FWD and AWD platform, not RWD. FWD weighs less because the drive wheels are right next to the engine. So I'm not being far fetched at all. You're quoting the 1.6L FWD Juke, not the AWD. the AWD weighs as much as a base Z.

The Z already starts at $30k for a stripper of a car. You're looking at $36, for a sport tech and touring models. Nismos and convertibles are the only overpriced models. I think everyone here would be happy paying Nismo money for 400hp. They won't like paying $60k unless the car starts eating vettes again, and that will require more than 400hp. And for the record, brand new Vettes weigh as much as the Z. You'd think they would try and drop the weight of those a lot more if they could? That's a $55,000 car.

Second piece you fail to realize is that to make a stiff structure, that adds weight. With new crash test requirements, clever engineering will need to be done to maintain similar chassis weight or even less.

You also fail to realize that bigger brakes weigh more, bigger wheels weigh more, a larger radiator, additional cooling, beefier clutch, transmission, thicker roll bars, the turbos, the strut bar (front and inverted rear), and all the little luxury features people are asking for.

I'm comfortable with the 3200 number. It definitely won't be 3,100lbs. The car is already using aluminum body panels, carbon driveshaft, forged wheels, aluminum suspension bits, undersized the radiator, crap oil cooler, and the wheelbase is only 100". There isn't a lot left to take off without spending a lot of money for magnesium and carbon.

ALTIMA IS 3,212 LBS IN 2016 at entry. U might wanna recheck that I'm speaking 2,900 lbs starting weight.
That's why I believe it will start at 2,900lbs. Based on the fact the grip Z is AWD, has a shyt load of electronics,n batteries n whatnot has a sport car chassis, and RWD biased. If all that is prevalent.

I'm going to subtract electronics and AWD, add RWD. Subtract the long suspension parts for short ones, subtract the extra doors and replace some weight with chassis reinforcement and heavier building materials..

So it's like saying 2,500lbs - 200 + 500/600= ?

Simple mathematics.

I can definitely see the Z being about 500lbs heavier than an ALFA ROMEO 4C and playing in that field than playing in the field of camaro and mustang. But that's me.

jwick · 02-17-2016, 08:42 AM

Does Nissan possess a four banger turbo that is not mated to a FWD tranny?

theDreamer · 02-17-2016, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwick

Does Nissan possess a four banger turbo that is not mated to a FWD tranny?

You won't like my answer but...yes-ish
Juke has a 4 banger turbo with an AWD (CVT tranny).

jwick · 02-17-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

You won't like my answer but...yes-ish

Juke has a 4 banger turbo with an AWD (CVT tranny).

Guess I should have asked if they had one that wasn't transverse mounted.

Firebase99 · 02-17-2016, 05:43 PM

Just drop the VR38DETT in there. Call it a day

/Angelo350Z/ · 02-17-2016, 05:49 PM

So ... still nothing definitive as what the next Z will be, huh? A $60K Z would have to beat an M4 on almost everything before I consider purchasing one.

Magic Bus · 02-17-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

So ... still nothing definitive as what the next Z will be, huh? A $60K Z would have to beat an M4 on almost everything before I consider purchasing one.

, no way would it ever be $60K. The new BMW M2 w/shipping is $52K, MSRP.

Dirk McGurck · 02-18-2016, 10:19 AM

jwick trolling for **** pics...

UNKNOWN_370 · 02-18-2016, 05:34 PM

Model: 2016 Nissan Altima
MSRP: From $22,900
MPG: 27 city / 39 highway
Engine: 2.5 L 4-cylinder
Horsepower: 182 hp
Curb weight: 3,212 lbs
Warranty: 3 yr/36,000 mi basic, 5 yr/60,000 mi powertrain
Dimensions: 192″ L x 72″ W x 58″ H

kay.zee · 02-18-2016, 05:48 PM

Nissan Altima is a piece of **** though

02-17-2016, 08:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465057	$60K for next new Z35? Does Nissan possess a four banger turbo that is not mated to a FWD tranny? __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build Last edited by jwick; 02-17-2016 at 01:21 PM.

02-17-2016, 05:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
Firebase99 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: fl Posts: 1,372 Drives: 14 3.8 Gen Coupe GT Rep Power: 14034	Just drop the VR38DETT in there. Call it a day __________________ '14 3.8 Genesis Coupe, '13 Volvo S60, '04 Honda Accord, '13 370Z-sold, '05 350Z Touring-sold, '92 300Z Twin Turbo-sold, '82 280ZX-gone, '79 260Z-gone

02-17-2016, 05:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
/Angelo350Z/ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 2,230 Drives: Z34 \| MK7 \| F82 Rep Power: 3661	So ... still nothing definitive as what the next Z will be, huh? A $60K Z would have to beat an M4 on almost everything before I consider purchasing one. __________________ 2013 MB NISSAN 370Z SPORT

02-18-2016, 10:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dirk McGurck Track Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Delaware Posts: 715 Drives: 09 MB 370Z Touring Rep Power: 21	jwick trolling for **** pics... __________________ 2009 370Z Touring with Sport

02-18-2016, 05:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	Model: 2016 Nissan Altima MSRP: From $22,900 MPG: 27 city / 39 highway Engine: 2.5 L 4-cylinder Horsepower: 182 hp Curb weight: 3,212 lbs Warranty: 3 yr/36,000 mi basic, 5 yr/60,000 mi powertrain Dimensions: 192″ L x 72″ W x 58″ H __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

02-18-2016, 05:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
kay.zee Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Walnut Creek,Ca Posts: 67 Drives: not a nissan Rep Power: 0	Nissan Altima is a piece of **** though

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