Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3600210)

When Andy Palmer left Nissan for Aston Martin, I truly knew it was over... I just didn't want to admit it. He was the last ranking car guy left in that company. Before he left, there were insiders I was talking that spoke of a 450hp version of what eventually came to be the VR Red Sport motor in the Infinitis for the next gen Z. There was the iDX concept.

Now look at what's happened to Nissan since he has left - more flavors of CVT-driven crossovers, a new light-heavyweight full size truck, a non-revolutionary "revolutionary" flagship sedan, a six-year-old SUV from Infiniti, and two 10-year-old sports cars.

What's Andy Palmer doing? He's busy giving the middle finger to the "reduce displacement and add boost for efficiency" mantra that even Porsche is now adopting, and stuffing giant N/A V12s into flagship GT Sports Cars (see: V12 Vanquish S) with THREE PEDALS available. Yeah, Aston is also building a crossover (I get it, you need a "volume" seller to make the R&D easier to absorb, but at least they're building exciting cool ****), but you can see a guy at the top is able to influence what is built, and that influence is executed from his vision for his company. Palmer's vision is exciting, elegant performance cars. Ghosn's vision is one of pure utility and economy for transportation itself (autonomy and energy independent), and perhaps it's the right one for a volume carmaker.

Ghosn was hired with the task of making Nissan profitable again. He's done that in spades. Nissan is a money-making machine. The man propped up Nissan, used Nissan to prop up Renault, and is about to prop up Mitsubishi. How they've done it and continue to do that is with a portfolio of products that exude a philosophy that doesn't mesh with cars like 370Zs and GT-Rs.

I would rather see the Z die quietly than become a part of that philosophy.

Even Kia has a better idea of what a sport sedan should be these days, if that puts things into better perspective for you. Go look at the new Stinger and tell me if the Maxima holds even a dim candle to it.

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3600210)

Very isolated perspective you have.

I'm making my final diatribe in this thread. Stamping it done for me. I have pretty much moved on from the idea of a new Z and here's why:

When looking at this from a feasible business case perspective, the Z is a very usable car for an extremely small subset of the American car market. To that subset, yes you can pack for the beach for a week with your wife and rock out. I have done the same thing. I also had a Mazdaspeed3 hatchback at home for when I needed to haul drums, hockey gear, or a decent run at costco. I did those things far more frequently than I went to the beach (sadly, but realistically.) For the overwhelming majority of Americans, a two seater for $35k cannot do "life" like a $35k full sized truck or crossover can. Also, for that majority, their budgets only allow them to pick one.

That makes the Z a niche car even before you get to the sports car part (I mean, a Fiat 500 is basically a 2 seater and we won't dare call that rolling piece of Dots candy a sports car, do we?). In order for Nissan to have a case to produce one (skipping the whole "needing a market of buyers" part), it needs to engineer as few new parts as possible to keep the costs down. This is why even the 350Z (This is a car that sold abundantly well in comparison to the 370, by the way) still shared many components with other cars to maintain potential profitability (the G35 being the biggest share, which was Infiniti's best selling model throughout its entire lifecycle). So we share it with the new Q60 platform as an option (which is a rinse and repeat move, but the most likely one if they do it). However, while this is the most likely option, it is not without its fair share of problems.

The VR motor is there for the picking SHOULD NISSAN DECIDE that it's ok to potentially dilute/endanger Infiniti sales. Infiniti is finally on the upswing (a brand that was in dire jeopardy of being killed off by CEO Ghosn in 2011), and sharing engines that have been dubbed "brand exclusive" (see: Red Sport press release) jeopardizes that growth in a way that the Infiniti brand cannot afford. The only VR that can be brought over without encroaching upon the whole exclusivity thing is the 300hp version. This brings many problems, not least of which includes the marketing problem you create by bringing an "ALL NEW IMPROVED Z" with "less power" than the outgoing model. Less power is ok if you go less weight though, right?

The Q60 Red Sport is 3800-4000 pounds depending on equipment. You pull a "Rogue Sport/Qashqai vs Rogue" approach, and shorten the length without shortening the wheelbase and get a Z package from the Q60. That gets you to 3500 pounds at best, given the required safety features and such in order to sell the things in America. It checks a lot of required boxes for the car, except one glaring problem - there's no manual transmission built for it yet. So you have to make one, or alienate 55% of potential legacy Z buyers that you're looking to capture (the take rate on manuals over automatics varied between 50-60% throughout the 370Zs lifecycle to date). With the torque output of the VR motor, can the current 370Z transmission, CSC and all, hold up to that? That remains to be seen. But even though a manual transmission can be had in a Q50 (european diesel model only), was the Q60 built in such a way that a manual transmission simply cannot be equipped without extensive retooling? Given Infiniti's direction of being techy and futuristic in their packaging approach, this is more likely than not. Remember, this is a company whose engineers are working on engineering out the steering columns from their models.

Finally - to your desired set of features in the next gen Z, we come to the final problem. The most likely scenario is to take as much from a $55k Infiniti Coupe, and find a way to update the feature set of the car not even exhaustively found in the current $45k 370Z NISMO, and find a way to make all of that happen without getting to the $55k number of the Infiniti.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The current 370Z NISMO is the best you are going to get.

Taking all of these accounting challenges into... *ahem*... account (they aren't engineering challenges - we have seen what Nissan is capable of pulling off in the GT-R without holding money to the highest priority) and coupling them with the direction Nissan is taking as a brand, it just isn't going to happen. Nissan won't do it. There are two recently executed pure living sheetmetal examples of the end result of Nissan's ability to "push the envelope" in a sporty car, and thy names are "Maxima" and "Sentra NISMO".

These cars are the result of capitulating to the nagging desires of an enthusiast working on a project while "playing it safe" and keeping the bottom line in the black instead of taking a chance (from a monetary and design standpoint) and building something exciting. The Maxima was supposed to be different than an Altima, and it's not. The Sentra NISMO was supposed to be the answer to a Focus ST or Subaru WRX, and instead it's a baseline Nissan Juke powertrain in a Sentra with red stripes on the outside. (The only reason why a manual is in that car is because they have already built it - plug and play - platform to platform).

When Andy Palmer left Nissan for Aston Martin, I truly knew it was over... I just didn't want to admit it. He was the last ranking car guy left in that company. Before he left, there were insiders I was talking that spoke of a 450hp version of what eventually came to be the VR Red Sport motor in the Infinitis for the next gen Z. There was the iDX concept.

Now look at what's happened to Nissan since he has left - more flavors of CVT-driven crossovers, a new light-heavyweight full size truck, a non-revolutionary "revolutionary" flagship sedan, a six-year-old SUV from Infiniti, and two 10-year-old sports cars.

What's Andy Palmer doing? He's busy giving the middle finger to the "reduce displacement and add boost for efficiency" mantra that even Porsche is now adopting, and stuffing giant N/A V12s into flagship GT Sports Cars (see: V12 Vanquish S) with THREE PEDALS available. Yeah, Aston is also building a crossover (I get it, you need a "volume" seller to make the R&D easier to absorb, but at least they're building exciting cool ****), but you can see a guy at the top is able to influence what is built, and that influence is executed from his vision for his company. Palmer's vision is exciting, elegant performance cars. Ghosn's vision is one of pure utility and economy for transportation itself (autonomy and energy independent), and perhaps it's the right one for a volume carmaker.

Ghosn was hired with the task of making Nissan profitable again. He's done that in spades. Nissan is a money-making machine. The man propped up Nissan, used Nissan to prop up Renault, and is about to prop up Mitsubishi. How they've done it and continue to do that is with a portfolio of products that exude a philosophy that doesn't mesh with cars like 370Zs and GT-Rs.

I would rather see the Z die quietly than become a part of that philosophy.

Even Kia has a better idea of what a sport sedan should be these days, if that puts things into better perspective for you. Go look at the new Stinger and tell me if the Maxima holds even a dim candle to it.

Originally Posted by Nithmo (Post 3600039)

Sorry, but this is one of the dumbest lists I've ever seen :rofl2:

What you're asking for is a 80-90k car.

3000-3100 pounds? Keep dreaming.

Better sound proofing? It's a sports car, not a luxury car. You also want it lightweight. Which is it?

Better handling? What's so bad about the handling? How do you make it "better"? ("I dunno, just do something!")

2 transmission options? Sorry, Nissan doesn't sell enough of these to offer that, nor do they make enough money on these to offer that. Yes, I know there's the AT and MT now, but something tells me what you're asking for is cost prohibitive yet again.

Brembo brakes? Why? Are the Akebonos bad? Yeah, Brembos are better because they're smaller and lighter and I believe dissipate heat better, but they don't magically make you stop better in normal daily or even "fun" street driving. You have to hauling *** through a track for them to make a difference.

Why 7MT? Because Porsche is doing it? How many are they selling? I'd be happy if the new Z even had a manual.

Nissan isnt building and selling a track purpose car. They never really did with the Z. Even the Nismo is just a slightly better version that isn't made to handle the track very well. The market for that is WAY too small for such a car. The Z is built for the street and it's brakes and suspension are more than adequate for that (assuming you get a higher trim).

What you're asking for is called an M3 or M4. Now compare the price tags and ask if you really want all that stuff again.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 3600257)

BUT WAIT.... THERES MORE!!! LMAO.... I think Nissan is reading our threads and our angry rants. To answer all the new car news and surprises. Nissan announced more mystery!!!!

The Nissan BladeGlider isn't dead yet | Top Gear

The novelty sports car we barely give a fvck about might come to fruition and compete against a slingshot and T Rex. The Blade Glider. I guess Nissan got so butt hurt in my Kia RANT they hadda drop some unnecessary and off topic sports car news to give us a shred of hope....

Maybe tomorrow they'll say the IDX is coming?:ugh2:

Originally Posted by njobe89 (Post 3600293)

they'll probably come out with something, just won't be anything that any of us really want lol

Originally Posted by Wonka2581 (Post 3600295)

I can see it now... it will be something to compete with the Prius..:icon17:

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3600305)

The next gen Z will be this ******* doorstop-looking car called the "Bladeglider".

I mean... Fiat made Dots candy come to life in car form with the 500... might as well mimic an ice cream code on its side with four wheels on it.

When can I get a car that's really a jungle gym for me to climb around on while it takes me to work? Heard McDonalds is going to make an autonomous car that spits out happy meals into the back seat ball-pit on command. I can giggle my way to work basking in nostalgia of my childhood and instantly forget that my desire to drive fun cars as a child has now gone up in smoke in circuitry before my eyes as an adult.

WTF IS HAPPENING TO CARS?!

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600290)

3100lbs is unreasonable? The current Z weighs 3300lbs. The Juke weighs 3100lbs with AWD and a CUV bodystyle. 3100lbs does not seem an unreasonable ask if you get a stripper car.

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3600305)

WTF IS HAPPENING TO CARS?!

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600290)

Very strange emotional response there.

3100lbs is unreasonable? The current Z weighs 3300lbs. The Juke weighs 3100lbs with AWD and a CUV bodystyle. 3100lbs does not seem an unreasonable ask if you get a stripper car.

Better sound proofing = luxury car? I didn't say it has to be a Mercedes. Quell some of the creaks, rattles, wind noise, tire roar. They just did this recently with the GTR.

Nothing is wrong with the current Z's handling, nor did I ever say there was. That doesn't mean you don't look to improve. Each generation Camaro has been increasing their handling capabilities, just look at the 1LE. You don't just leave things as they are because they're good ... you evolve. It's a selling point.

Two transmission choices is a problem? They have DCTs in their lineup, use one in the Z and retain a manual for purists. It's an option. People would be over the moon if they offered a DCT in the Z.

7 speed because highway cruise gear. Not necessary but again, they need to stay competitive and 7 is quickly becoming the new 6. You'd be happy if the new Z even has a manual? You expect too little.

Pretty sure I didn't mention anything about a track car (though it would be nice to have more variants in the Z lineup). Me saying I think they should improve braking and handling does not equate to building a track car. That's quite a jump.

They are selling base Vettes for 49k. A Nismo Z comparably equipped is like 46k new and it offers no where near the performance of a Vette. Honestly it doesn't even compete with the Camaro 1LE. Admittedly they're different cars, but people looking to pick up the Z because it's a sporty looking car that has good performance per dollar are going elsewhere because there are better options on the market.

I did not see a single valid reason why what I listed is inconceivable in a modern sports coupe in today's competitive market.

Nissan absolutely is missing the boat right now. They have the capability to siphon some muscle car buyers, get BRZ owners to upgrade, and pull people who really want higher level vettes and caymans but can't afford them. Instead they are sitting idly by not looking for market share.

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3600305)

The next gen Z will be this ******* doorstop-looking car called the "Bladeglider".

I mean... Fiat made Dots candy come to life in car form with the 500... might as well mimic an ice cream cone on its side with four wheels on it.

When can I get a car that's really a jungle gym for me to climb around on while it takes me to work? Heard McDonalds is going to make an autonomous car that spits out happy meals into the back seat ball-pit on command. I can giggle my way to work basking in nostalgia of my childhood and instantly forget that my desire to drive fun cars as a child has now gone up in smoke in circuitry before my eyes as an adult.

WTF IS HAPPENING TO CARS?!

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 3600362)

I'll agree 3100lbs is NOT unreasonable for a Z. A matter of fact, it the stinger coupe does come with 375hp with 2800lbs?:? The Z meds to match or exceed that. It's not u reasonable. It's just Nissan Manginas won't do it.

Originally Posted by Nithmo (Post 3600407)

You're missing half the equation. Can Nissan make the Z weigh 3000-3100 pounds? Sure. But at what cost? Show me another competitive car that weighs that little. Go ahead, I'll wait.

It doesn't exist because it is cost prohibitive. You're saying Nissan should just make the design/car better. It doesn't work like that. At all.

If you want a car like that, you should've started yelling at your neighbors, coworkers, family and friends and force them to have bought 370s over the last 5 years. THAT is the sole reason this car doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600516)

Not to mention the fact that Nissan could easily sell a stripper version of that car without the options in the low 30s with a 300hp turbo motor.

I think your expectations are too low and not based off the current climate of the market.

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600514)

Want to see what the current 1LE Camaro offers for 46k ...

V8 455 horsepower
6-speed manual transmission
Magnetic Ride Control
electronic limited-slip differential
Forged-aluminum wheels running 285/30ZR20 front and 305/30ZR20 rear
Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires
Brembo brakes with 6-piston 2-piece rotor
Track cooling packages like engine oil, differential, and trans
Dual-mode exhaust
RECARO seats
Available Performance Data Recorder
Rev Matching

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600509)

You guys really need to stop saying this. All this they can't do it stuff is nonsense. They can, they just aren't.

Don't tell me a DCT is unrealistic either as my goddamn Mitsubishi Evo has one and cost under 40k brand new.

Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3600549)

Saying what? That most of the stuff you're asking for is cost prohibitive? Because it is. No one said they CAN'T do it. People are saying Nissan won't do that stuff because most of it doesn't make sense financially. What are you not understanding?

And that's a terrible argument. Compared to the Z, your Evo with DCT is still way behind in the sports car market, so it's not even a good comparison. If your DCT (or any other for that matter) just swapped straight into the Z, then sure, there's no excuses for Nissan not to offer one as an option. Except that's not the case. The R&D to create a new DCT (or even a shared DCT) that works in the Z absolutely is not worth it with such low sales figures.

Best case is they develop a DCT to work in another, more marketable vehicle category to help with costs and it works with the new Z platform. Another option might be to design the new Z platform to work with an existing, earlier generation DCT. And yet another option is they change the target price point for the Z to accommodate any and all upgrades, in which case everything is pretty much up in the air as they could go in a number of directions with it. Bottom line is most people think a DCT in the new Z is doubtful, and your argument that it should be is wishful thinking. I don't think you'll find anyone here who thinks a DCT in the Z is a terrible powertrain option.

Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3600574)

Dct would be nice.

Maybe it's time to do away with the manual too

Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3600574)

Dct would be nice.

Maybe it's time to do away with the manual too

Originally Posted by Wonka2581 (Post 3600558)

No I think if they even make a new Z (and that's a big if) a dual clutch auto would be a good option for the AT guys. But that being said they need to make it to handle at least 500 pounds of tourque. Also they need to keep and manual option. I think all the argueing is useless let's face the facts there has been no news or speculation that Nissan is going to make a new Z. I see the Z falling the way of Supra and or NSX. If they do make a new one it will be years from now if that.

Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3600574)

Dct would be nice.

Maybe it's time to do away with the manual too

Originally Posted by cigarclifford (Post 3600818)

lol went with a automatic on my new ride :D

Hope your happy now..

Originally Posted by FPenvy (Post 3600826)

Very lol

Well done sir.

Originally Posted by cigarclifford (Post 3600829)

Thank you Mr Frank :tup:



:icon17: My 2010 Nismo is at 98,000 miles and still mint as day one new Sir :tup:



:ugh: I know it came with a manual :icon17:

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600514)

Want to see what the current 1LE Camaro offers for 46k ...

V8 455 horsepower
6-speed manual transmission
Magnetic Ride Control
electronic limited-slip differential
Forged-aluminum wheels running 285/30ZR20 front and 305/30ZR20 rear
Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires
Brembo brakes with 6-piston 2-piece rotor
Track cooling packages like engine oil, differential, and trans
Dual-mode exhaust
RECARO seats
Available Performance Data Recorder
Rev Matching

Originally Posted by Redglare (Post 3600849)

you don't even need to go the 1LE route, the 1ss can be had for the same price as a base sport 370 and at the same time run laps around the z34 nismo, granted you won't have the same experience, but physics can't be argued with.

nothing new here, times moved on and nissan didn't, or I should say Carlos Ghon the nissan CEO didn't.

If you watch a very old jay lennos garage episode he goes to japan and talk to the Z designer, he says everything is in process and just waiting the green light from the administration, unfortunately Carlos just like all other CEO's is milking the mass market cars and propping up the brand with the flagship GTR, meanwhile leaving the red headed step child Z behind until he feels like he milked every other segment.

When will that be? only Carlos knows, but I can tell you right now the japanese nissan board isn't complaining, the company is thriving and making money.

What they did with the Z letting it go for so long without any 'upgrades' or even remedies like the CSC fix just shows you blatantly they do not care for the Z since there market is so saturated and there is no money there, meaning they would have to make a superior product, meaning they would have to invest a lot of R&D into the platform that just does not generate the revenue.

Look how many maximas they sold in one year then look at how many Z's, its pure business.

I hope the next gen is around the corner, but honestly at this point I lost interest and moved on to the c7 platform, you can pick up a brand new vette for the price of a nismo Z and have a much wider grin on your face.

It's really sad that we may see a C8 before we see the next gen Z.

Originally Posted by Wonka2581 (Post 3600866)

Yup yup and yup, you will see the new C8 before the next gen Z..

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600708)

What **** are you trying to talk about the Evo exactly? The car has AWD, a great suspension and braking system, Recaro seats, and a DCT for under 40k and came with around 300hp stock (go ahead and correct me here Ricer about the exact HP/Torque figure, since I know the 5hp will make all the difference to you). That was in 2008.

Originally Posted by triso07 (Post 3600509)

You guys really need to stop saying this. All this they can't do it stuff is nonsense. They can, they just aren't.

No one is saying build a car with a carbon fiber tub, 500hp motor, carbon ceramic brakes, and electronic suspension and sell it to me for 40k. These requests are not unrealistic despite the fact you keep saying they are.

Don't tell me a DCT is unrealistic either as my goddamn Mitsubishi Evo has one and cost under 40k brand new.