That doesn't matter from a marketing perspective. People just want more, whether they'll ever use it or not.

I'm not excited about the possibility of them using that steer-by-wire crap from the Infiniti, however.

Very true. At the end of the day it's all about bells and whistles with some big factory numbers.

True car enthusiasts know the difference between gimmicks and driving. Unfortunately that puts cars like ours in a very precarious position in terms for the manufacturer... how to attract people to drive a car that isn't all that practical vs a sport sedan

True car enthusiasts aren't even a blip on the radar to manufacturers. There aren't enough of them to make a car a sales success. That means the car has to appeal to the average buyer, and as we all know, the average person is a complete moron.

:icon17:

Agree with the exception of the hypercar market. It's pretty crazy that a manufacturer can do well selling barely a dozen cars a year, like Koenigsegg.

They sell many many more than that just they can only produce a small amount a year.

The one:1 sold out instantly as well as they had to add onto the initial 200 cars planned for the regera due to demand.

Fair enough. Still... sales in the hundreds of cars and successful.

Each car costs a mil plus l

Also CVK has more money than god now from all his patented ****. His camless engine tech is about to take over.

2+2 cars will always outsell 2 seaters.... And you gotta think. The Z is truly the poor man's "dedicated" sports car. Most people that shop in the Z price range are looking for practical or versatile performance. Most people whohave the income to buy a Proper Z with SP or Nismo. May not be able to buy tires, pads, and other types of real sports car maintenance.

A car like the vette starts at a price where you have another tier of buyer. One that drives a nice car but is practical enough to want the most performance for the best money. If a higher tier purchaser is looking at the Z and the vette. He'll choose the vette.

The Z represents a balance of car with a tiny market. The 350z was also $25,000 to start vs the 370 being 30,000. At 30,000 in a 350 you had a well appointed car for the coin.

The 2009 370z was now a $40,000 car well appointed. So the way packages were done, you were jumping into an extra $7,000 of car compared to a comparable Z 3 years earlier. That's over $100 a month payment. And as stated. It happened during a recessio.

I think the Z power is fine for what you get. I would love to see the more powerful turbo but power would be on the bottom of my complaints.
But America is mostly about horsepower wars so the Z once again narrows the customer base by being ultra niche.

The populous for our cars in this income bracket is dismal. But that's EXACTLY what makes the Z so special. Most problems are small in the solution but huge in the ideology of being a competitive sports car. And it's because Nissan ignores the small things. Irs why the Z still suffers in sales right now.

Well said :tup:

I think it will be interesting to see what happens if the Supra and the Z35 are released at the same time.

I'm a little more excited by (the idea of, at least,) the Supra, but I'd be very happy with either. However, it will most likely be far easier to tune the Z, and I'm sure I'll want to do some tuning, especially if its factory boosted.

The relevant target consumers will probably all be thinking the same thing... and if they aren't, the car magazine's will be sure to remind us :icon17:

Thread cleared of off topic posts.

I agree with unknown 370 to a point. I bought a 2014 370Z base. A really good car for the money. The problem with sales is that Nissan and the dealers make no effort to market the car! Nissan had the 0% interest promotion on my Z but you had to scour the Website to find it. They run ads for Altimas and Maximas and Jokes with 0% but they don't even put a Z in the picture!
I called some dealers around here and most didn't know if they even had a Z or
where on the lot it was. The salesman for my Z said in 7 years he had never sold one and he was the Internet sales Manager! But look at it this way, I see dozens of Mustangs and Corvettes before I see another Z! A security guard where I work saw mine one morning and asked if it cost $100,000 or more.
WOW!

the z doesn't sell, it is what it is. my friend is a manager at nissan, before he was the manager he used to do sales. he sold cars for 5 years and in 5 years he said he sold 2 z's. nissan made the mistake of not updating the car and leaving it the same year in and year out.

While I agree with you on a lot of points and the overall theme of your opinion, I disagree that it is today's poor man's sports car. Assuming with thinking about 2 seat coupes and not 2+2 (disqualifies BRZ/FRS), that pretty much puts the latest (ND) and last generation (NC) miata as the crown holder. Say what you want about it, but it's the most affordable sports car you can buy new in dedicated soft top or a hardtop/hybrid couple both countering regular and convertible Z.

You allude to it as well, but the Z is pretty pricey for the target market it is trying to appeal to, which is the affordable sports car buyer. Parts (maintenance and aftermarket), insurance, and fuel consumption do not favor it against other cars said buyer could choose instead.

Personally, I think 1-2 year old prices of these Zs are truly where the price market should have been new. I've purchased a new Z in the past (2010 sport+touring) and a 1 year old used Nismo (2016 tech). It's no surprise that I got way more car for nearly the same cash.

That's probably what hurts the Z the most. A lot of people in this segment have to make a choice rather than have multiple vehicles and lots of other choices have far more practicality, affordability, and/or power for around the same cash spent.

Keep in mind, I love my Z and I'm glad I was able to pick one up before they change from the traditional NA 6 cylinder coupe I find makes it different than my other cars (turbo hatch and a boosted miata coupe), therefore worth having to me.

Again, I agree with you on a lot of points, especially about cars having more than enough power for the street. I personally find any car below a 13Lbs/1HP ratio to be plenty fun for the street. My cars range from 7.9 to 12.8 at this point, so I have a good idea about what's probably too much to fully use around town.

I personally hope the Z evolves and continues to stay relatively attainable and a fun to drive. I find it hard to justify shelling out more than $50k for a loaded car, but I'm obviously spoiled by today's cheap speed options. :-)

i agree with your point on the hp/weight ratio idea. i personally find mashing full throttle on my beater csx more fun then the 370 because i dun have to worry about speeding. if i did that in the 370 i'd have my car tolled by the police and charged with stunt driving. however the 370 is superior in every single way to my beater.

I think if Nissan wants to follow the original fairlady concept then it would be too niche to be a big seller. It probably needs to upsize to become a 2+2 to compete in america, and increase the hp to compete with the camaros and mustangs. Then it will stray far away from the concept of a fairlady and lose the identity totally.




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The 300Zx was offered in a 2+2 trim. I'm not overly concerned about a vestigial backseat if it will help Nissan keep these available. They can always be removed :p

I still got about a year until my Z is fully paid off, so I guess I'll just continue to sit back and wait...

Just curious- is the dealership your friend works at in the middle of nowhere? Like, the South Pole, or the Galápagos Islands?

The dealer that sold me my car only sells around 1 Z per year. The lot is full of Jukes, Rouges, Muranos, Versas, Sentras, Altimas, And Frontiers.

Maybe 1-5 of the following, Titan, Titan XD, 370Z, Maxima, GT-R, Pathfinder, and Armada.

My 2014 Z actually sat on the lot for a year and a half before I bought it.

No 2+2! One of the things that makes the Z special is being a 2 seater. Those backseats would be completely useless anyway and would do nothing but add size and weight.

The salesperson sells one per year, or the whole dealership sells one per year? Either way, I think your numbers are way off. The Titan is selling a ton around the country. No, not like the F150, but still more than what you're insinuating. I also see a bunch of Maximas and Pathfinders, so I dunno...

I said dealer as in dealership, and my numbers are not way off for around here anyway. You are also in Canada. And I'm referring to 2015 and up. Four dealers around here, would you like to see their inventory lists? Lastly I'm talking around my area, I'm not insinuating anything.

Also, wanted to mention that I said what was on the lot, not what has been sold. I will admit that going back after and confirming, the dealers around here carry a few more Pathfinders than expected.

But the 370Z though, my numbers are NOT way off. They dealer told me this and a different dealer still has a roadster that has been there for over a year now.

the z just doesn't sell that well.

For the 2016 year 5,913 Z's sold in US and 932 for Canada. Prior year 7,391 & 688 respectively. Definitely not a big seller.

You're also basically in Canada :p

:rolleyes::iagree:

Wish I lived in Canada at this point.....

Those aren't bad numbers for a fairly expensive and a completely limited (in terms of use) car. The Z is a fun car and little more than that. You can't carry anything in it, it's not practical for really anything, and as we all know, it's even a bit lacking in terms of the fun department, when it comes to the competition. On top of that, it's a 6 or 7 year model.

Honda/Acura would kill to move 7-8000 units of some of their cars, no joke.

Granted, the 350z sold much better, but part of that is due to the Z hiatus after the 300zx. People were excited for the car when it returned.

I really wouldnt mind if the Z went on a hiatus similar to the 300ZX. That would give Nissan a few years to work on a platform that is its own and doesnt share anything with other platforms besides maybe an engine. The 370z is already a great car if you look at it on its own and ignore the competition. Does the new muscle cars have more power and seem more appealing than a 370z? Yes but honestly those cars are still very heavy compared to the Z and IMO you cant substitute the lighter feeling by adding power. The Z is a STEAL on the used market(you can find pretty low mileage Z's for under 25k but you all knew that already), what car on the used market that give the combo of power, handling, realiability and great drivability for under 25k? There really isnt much in its price point that I can think of and the cars you can find C5 Z06, S2k, Cayman and BRZ have their pros and cons. I think the 370z has the best combo of a DD, cheap to maintain, power, modability and something that is fun to drive at a bargain price. They are already a gem for what you get used, I can only imagine what it would be like if they discontinued them and didnt announce plans for a new Z(especially with the new G and its DAS
system :thumbsdown: ). The Z WILL be missed if its discontinued, you know what they say.. "you dont know what you have until its gone".

So what do you call a mild refresh of the Nismo model only in the year that we were supposed to get a new Z???? These Z'S have been the same car going on 9 years this year. Just cuz there's Z's on a lot doesn't mean that Nissan is doing anything with our Z's right now. I think for 2.5 years. We been on a hiatus.

Changing a body style and upping gear ratios isn't my idea of Nissan doing anything but putting lipstick on a pig. The Z is the same old pig. So it's on hiatus.

I agree that Z the is a great car on its own. You're completely right about that. Like I stated before. Nissan should at least have the decency to want to compete against itself and make itself better, if it's not going to compete in the market?

Give us that FVCKIN VR engine already for fvck sakes. Damn Nissan!!! Leave in the hydraulic steering. Leave in the e brake. Tune the 7 speed n give it higher power tolerances and quicker shifts Redesign the interior and make the exterior evolutionary. That's all they gotta do. N fvck EV's.... shyt!!!!

I think the Z is very useable. I've packed an incredible amount of gear in the hatch and gone on vacation in it with my wife.

2 seat only (hatch retained)
3000-3100lbs
350-400hp (turbo 6) (even though I would prefer NA TBH)
Brembo brakes (option)
Recaro Seats (option)
7 speed manual
7 speed DCT (option)
Better handling and braking
Slightly better materials for the interior
Slightly better sound proofing
NO vmotion grill

That will pull people aspiring to a Z from BRZ and FRS, people who want a Cayman but see the Z as a cheaper faster alternative, and if priced competitively people buying muscle cars who really just want a quick sporty coupe.

The engine options are already their. So it wouldn't be 350hp. You'd have a 300hp and a 400hp. You might see an entry level 4 banger between 211 and 241 hp depending on what tune they go with.

n/a we won't see for a while. Better to upgrade to a current Nismo n call it a day if NA is your thing

No Z yet but Nissan brought the 141 whopping horses in the new Rogue Sport....

Cuz when we think sport? We think 141hp SUV'S!!

https://youtu.be/js68aJbuujs

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...1d4ff562e5.jpg



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Sorry, but this is one of the dumbest lists I've ever seen :rofl2:

What you're asking for is a 80-90k car.

3000-3100 pounds? Keep dreaming.

Better sound proofing? It's a sports car, not a luxury car. You also want it lightweight. Which is it?

Better handling? What's so bad about the handling? How do you make it "better"? ("I dunno, just do something!")

2 transmission options? Sorry, Nissan doesn't sell enough of these to offer that, nor do they make enough money on these to offer that. Yes, I know there's the AT and MT now, but something tells me what you're asking for is cost prohibitive yet again.

Brembo brakes? Why? Are the Akebonos bad? Yeah, Brembos are better because they're smaller and lighter and I believe dissipate heat better, but they don't magically make you stop better in normal daily or even "fun" street driving. You have to hauling *** through a track for them to make a difference.

Why 7MT? Because Porsche is doing it? How many are they selling? I'd be happy if the new Z even had a manual.

Nissan isnt building and selling a track purpose car. They never really did with the Z. Even the Nismo is just a slightly better version that isn't made to handle the track very well. The market for that is WAY too small for such a car. The Z is built for the street and it's brakes and suspension are more than adequate for that (assuming you get a higher trim).

What you're asking for is called an M3 or M4. Now compare the price tags and ask if you really want all that stuff again.

Nissan actually did offer a 370Z Racecar model. It had beefed up parts ready for track use and a roll cage. It also cost $150K :eekdance:

Yeah.... that was about $50,000 overpriced.

Z1 sells it :icon17:

https://www.z1motorsports.com/nismo/...ar-p-5449.html

i wonder if anyone bought one and if it still has a csc failure :stirthepot: lol

plus for 150,000 couldn't they at least add a little bit more power :/

Very isolated perspective you have.

I'm making my final diatribe in this thread. Stamping it done for me. I have pretty much moved on from the idea of a new Z and here's why:

When looking at this from a feasible business case perspective, the Z is a very usable car for an extremely small subset of the American car market. To that subset, yes you can pack for the beach for a week with your wife and rock out. I have done the same thing. I also had a Mazdaspeed3 hatchback at home for when I needed to haul drums, hockey gear, or a decent run at costco. I did those things far more frequently than I went to the beach (sadly, but realistically.) For the overwhelming majority of Americans, a two seater for $35k cannot do "life" like a $35k full sized truck or crossover can. Also, for that majority, their budgets only allow them to pick one.

That makes the Z a niche car even before you get to the sports car part (I mean, a Fiat 500 is basically a 2 seater and we won't dare call that rolling piece of Dots candy a sports car, do we?). In order for Nissan to have a case to produce one (skipping the whole "needing a market of buyers" part), it needs to engineer as few new parts as possible to keep the costs down. This is why even the 350Z (This is a car that sold abundantly well in comparison to the 370, by the way) still shared many components with other cars to maintain potential profitability (the G35 being the biggest share, which was Infiniti's best selling model throughout its entire lifecycle). So we share it with the new Q60 platform as an option (which is a rinse and repeat move, but the most likely one if they do it). However, while this is the most likely option, it is not without its fair share of problems.

The VR motor is there for the picking SHOULD NISSAN DECIDE that it's ok to potentially dilute/endanger Infiniti sales. Infiniti is finally on the upswing (a brand that was in dire jeopardy of being killed off by CEO Ghosn in 2011), and sharing engines that have been dubbed "brand exclusive" (see: Red Sport press release) jeopardizes that growth in a way that the Infiniti brand cannot afford. The only VR that can be brought over without encroaching upon the whole exclusivity thing is the 300hp version. This brings many problems, not least of which includes the marketing problem you create by bringing an "ALL NEW IMPROVED Z" with "less power" than the outgoing model. Less power is ok if you go less weight though, right?

The Q60 Red Sport is 3800-4000 pounds depending on equipment. You pull a "Rogue Sport/Qashqai vs Rogue" approach, and shorten the length without shortening the wheelbase and get a Z package from the Q60. That gets you to 3500 pounds at best, given the required safety features and such in order to sell the things in America. It checks a lot of required boxes for the car, except one glaring problem - there's no manual transmission built for it yet. So you have to make one, or alienate 55% of potential legacy Z buyers that you're looking to capture (the take rate on manuals over automatics varied between 50-60% throughout the 370Zs lifecycle to date). With the torque output of the VR motor, can the current 370Z transmission, CSC and all, hold up to that? That remains to be seen. But even though a manual transmission can be had in a Q50 (european diesel model only), was the Q60 built in such a way that a manual transmission simply cannot be equipped without extensive retooling? Given Infiniti's direction of being techy and futuristic in their packaging approach, this is more likely than not. Remember, this is a company whose engineers are working on engineering out the steering columns from their models.

Finally - to your desired set of features in the next gen Z, we come to the final problem. The most likely scenario is to take as much from a $55k Infiniti Coupe, and find a way to update the feature set of the car not even exhaustively found in the current $45k 370Z NISMO, and find a way to make all of that happen without getting to the $55k number of the Infiniti.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The current 370Z NISMO is the best you are going to get.

Taking all of these accounting challenges into... *ahem*... account (they aren't engineering challenges - we have seen what Nissan is capable of pulling off in the GT-R without holding money to the highest priority) and coupling them with the direction Nissan is taking as a brand, it just isn't going to happen. Nissan won't do it. There are two recently executed pure living sheetmetal examples of the end result of Nissan's ability to "push the envelope" in a sporty car, and thy names are "Maxima" and "Sentra NISMO".

These cars are the result of capitulating to the nagging desires of an enthusiast working on a project while "playing it safe" and keeping the bottom line in the black instead of taking a chance (from a monetary and design standpoint) and building something exciting. The Maxima was supposed to be different than an Altima, and it's not. The Sentra NISMO was supposed to be the answer to a Focus ST or Subaru WRX, and instead it's a baseline Nissan Juke powertrain in a Sentra with red stripes on the outside. (The only reason why a manual is in that car is because they have already built it - plug and play - platform to platform).

When Andy Palmer left Nissan for Aston Martin, I truly knew it was over... I just didn't want to admit it. He was the last ranking car guy left in that company. Before he left, there were insiders I was talking that spoke of a 450hp version of what eventually came to be the VR Red Sport motor in the Infinitis for the next gen Z. There was the iDX concept.

Now look at what's happened to Nissan since he has left - more flavors of CVT-driven crossovers, a new light-heavyweight full size truck, a non-revolutionary "revolutionary" flagship sedan, a six-year-old SUV from Infiniti, and two 10-year-old sports cars.

What's Andy Palmer doing? He's busy giving the middle finger to the "reduce displacement and add boost for efficiency" mantra that even Porsche is now adopting, and stuffing giant N/A V12s into flagship GT Sports Cars (see: V12 Vanquish S) with THREE PEDALS available. Yeah, Aston is also building a crossover (I get it, you need a "volume" seller to make the R&D easier to absorb, but at least they're building exciting cool ****), but you can see a guy at the top is able to influence what is built, and that influence is executed from his vision for his company. Palmer's vision is exciting, elegant performance cars. Ghosn's vision is one of pure utility and economy for transportation itself (autonomy and energy independent), and perhaps it's the right one for a volume carmaker.

Ghosn was hired with the task of making Nissan profitable again. He's done that in spades. Nissan is a money-making machine. The man propped up Nissan, used Nissan to prop up Renault, and is about to prop up Mitsubishi. How they've done it and continue to do that is with a portfolio of products that exude a philosophy that doesn't mesh with cars like 370Zs and GT-Rs.

I would rather see the Z die quietly than become a part of that philosophy.

Even Kia has a better idea of what a sport sedan should be these days, if that puts things into better perspective for you. Go look at the new Stinger and tell me if the Maxima holds even a dim candle to it.

Not the next Z but we're getting there Nissan.....

Vmotion 2.0 concept:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EMNZv9dqz...n2-Concept.jpg