Originally Posted by Majorwoody (Post 3158159)

I know the 1990 + Supra Turbos had MSRPs of $65,000 back then. i don't recall the price for the 300ZX TT but the NAs were priced at $40,000 MSRP which caused their downfall. Now fast forward 20 plus years later, Is $65K too much for a turbo'd Z?

Originally Posted by 6spd (Post 3158636)

OMG when was the last time anyone saw a dealer sticker with $0.00 for ANY optional or dealer installed items? Lol

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 3158653)

Put it like this bruh. The Z name isn't ready for pricing over $50k. People thought the Z was borderline expensive with a base price of $29,990 in 09'. When the Z hit $32,000 MSRP people went crazy and sales plummeted by 50%. The Z just wont appeal in the Porsche/Vette segment, even if it's just as good. That's like if next year, the genisis coupe is the same price as an infiniti or if the infiniti is the same price as the bimmer. They will lose sales. Even if they completely go upmarket by every sense of the word. It will alienate the current Z market and CONVERTING Porsche, BMW buyers will prove difficult in DOWNGRADING to the NISSAN name.
The Z needs to do 2 things

1. Attract younger buyers... Hence a lower base MSRP in the 2.0
2. Bring back its orignal buyers to the brand... Hence the need for 3.0TT

The 350z enjoyed an average of 22,000 car sales annually vs our current 5,000. Where did the other 17,000 Z enthusiasts go? Into mustangs and other comparably priced sports cars with more power. the Z has to be at V8 muscle car entry price to succeed. Look at the ford mustangs pricing and I show you the future in Z35 pricing... End of story.

The Z is the muscle car alternative. A budget porsche... It just needs more power, 21st century features and standards with a true global design to compete. Going upscale will cause a second death for the Z. Uness the top range price is $60k with exaggerated performance. It wont be a sart sale at$60k.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 3158653)

Put it like this bruh. The Z name isn't ready for pricing over $50k. People thought the Z was borderline expensive with a base price of $29,990 in 09'. When the Z hit $32,000 MSRP people went crazy and sales plummeted by 50%. The Z just wont appeal in the Porsche/Vette segment, even if it's just as good. That's like if next year, the genisis coupe is the same price as an infiniti or if the infiniti is the same price as the bimmer. They will lose sales. Even if they completely go upmarket by every sense of the word. It will alienate the current Z market and CONVERTING Porsche, BMW buyers will prove difficult in DOWNGRADING to the NISSAN name.
The Z needs to do 2 things

1. Attract younger buyers... Hence a lower base MSRP in the 2.0
2. Bring back its orignal buyers to the brand... Hence the need for 3.0TT

The 350z enjoyed an average of 22,000 car sales annually vs our current 5,000. Where did the other 17,000 Z enthusiasts go? Into mustangs and other comparably priced sports cars with more power. the Z has to be at V8 muscle car entry price to succeed. Look at the ford mustangs pricing and I show you the future in Z35 pricing... End of story.

The Z is the muscle car alternative. A budget porsche... It just needs more power, 21st century features and standards with a true global design to compete. Going upscale will cause a second death for the Z. Unless the top range price is $60k with exaggerated performance specs and features. It wont be a start sale at$60k.

Originally Posted by 6spd (Post 3158661)

Well said

Originally Posted by Z_ealot (Post 3158660)

Just for comparison sake i found the window sticker for a 1990 300zx turbo

http://www.300zx.cl/ga/300zx/images/sticker.jpg

Originally Posted by 6spd (Post 3158882)

What was the price of one the last year it was made. If the price stayed the same and didn't increase with inflation, then this subject is moot. I'm interested in this.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3158863)

It's perception and the Z can't seem to stray from the $30k range of buyers. Nothing wrong with that but it will forever limit how nice the Z can be. $30k is nothing nowadays. If Nissan put out a Z that was a nice step up from the Z34 in the $60k range loaded, I'd buy it as an alternative to the Cayman. Then have a stripped down entry version in the mid $30k for those who want a cheap car. This is the Mustang formula and it works. Sadly though this will never happen because the Z doesn't sell in volumes like the domestics, so I doubt well see multiple iterations. I'd be shocked if we see two engine options like the z32 days

Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3146502)

No way anyone is going to buy a Z35 for $60K as wonderful as these cars are and like everyone has already mentioned, your getting into another class of car for that amount.

Just some food for thought though...I've noticed some of these Z35 articles coming out of Australia, where the price for cars is about double then what is is here in the US. There may be some confusion with this $60K price tag floating around.

Originally Posted by Z_ealot (Post 3158657)

A little odd yes, but all the other window stickers i found were no where near the 65k that was claimed as the selling price of a supra turbo back in the 90's...most expensive i saw which had a leather package on it was i believe around 52k

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3155178)

A Corvette Stingray is 500 hp and starts in the $50k range. If you push the Z into the $50k range without matching or exceeding the Corvette pound for pound, dollar for dollar, and hp for hp, it will last maybe as long as the Z32. If the Z ends up there, it's truly in the Corvette class, whether you want it to be or not - the cars are both two seat sports cars at that point, and you're not going to convert very many, if any, Corvette buyers. The demographic is too "BY MURICA FOR MURICA" to buy a Japanese two seat alternative.

On the other hand, if they do match or exceed it, then you provide a Nissan alternative to the GT-R for less money (500 hp range), and you'll find out how many people bought the GT-R because the Z didn't reach high enough for them. (I'll be willing to bet there are at least a few GT-R owners that would have a Z instead if it had 500 hp).

It's a dangerous place to be in and they have to be meticulously strategic with it.

The smartest thing you could possibly do with this car is find a way to make it a Camaro SS/Mustang GT/Challenger RT alternative (biggest chunk of the market) while retaining the Z formula. This means that 400-450hp at the same price point given all other things equal (weight from the Z34 for example) would be a larger hit than the Z34 on the market, especially if you gave it some sort of a backseat a la Z32.

They have to go where the market is for this car while still being unique.

That's why half of these reports are so freakin illogical. A Z with a turbo 4 by itself makes ZERO sense - why move the car to a smaller market (BRZ)? It only makes sense if it's one piece of the puzzle where a higher performance version is offered (turbo 6) because then the market coverage expands to a Camaro/Mustang alternative (multiple powertrains, lower cost of entry, high performance bargain). Those things only work if they meet competitors in the market. Sure a $25k turbo 4 Z makes a ton of sense only if the turbo 6 Z offered with it is in the $40k range (TOPS), not $60k.

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3155178)

A Corvette Stingray is 500 hp and starts in the $50k range. If you push the Z into the $50k range without matching or exceeding the Corvette pound for pound, dollar for dollar, and hp for hp, it will last maybe as long as the Z32. If the Z ends up there, it's truly in the Corvette class, whether you want it to be or not - the cars are both two seat sports cars at that point, and you're not going to convert very many, if any, Corvette buyers. The demographic is too "BY MURICA FOR MURICA" to buy a Japanese two seat alternative.

On the other hand, if they do match or exceed it, then you provide a Nissan alternative to the GT-R for less money (500 hp range), and you'll find out how many people bought the GT-R because the Z didn't reach high enough for them. (I'll be willing to bet there are at least a few GT-R owners that would have a Z instead if it had 500 hp).

It's a dangerous place to be in and they have to be meticulously strategic with it.

The smartest thing you could possibly do with this car is find a way to make it a Camaro SS/Mustang GT/Challenger RT alternative (biggest chunk of the market) while retaining the Z formula. This means that 400-450hp at the same price point given all other things equal (weight from the Z34 for example) would be a larger hit than the Z34 on the market, especially if you gave it some sort of a backseat a la Z32.

They have to go where the market is for this car while still being unique.

That's why half of these reports are so freakin illogical. A Z with a turbo 4 by itself makes ZERO sense - why move the car to a smaller market (BRZ)? It only makes sense if it's one piece of the puzzle where a higher performance version is offered (turbo 6) because then the market coverage expands to a Camaro/Mustang alternative (multiple powertrains, lower cost of entry, high performance bargain). Those things only work if they meet competitors in the market. Sure a $25k turbo 4 Z makes a ton of sense only if the turbo 6 Z offered with it is in the $40k range (TOPS), not $60k.

Originally Posted by ZKraken22 (Post 3157426)

Well one i wouldnt want a base Z. Fully loaded please. and two your missing alot of things on that list. like Transmission work, built motor.

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 3159945)

Very well said :tiphat:

As to the turbo 4, notwithstanding the lack of sales for the Gen coupe, the latest iteration of the Mustang has a turbo 4 as its midlevel option priced and making power greater than their 6 cyl (funnily enough, also a 3.7 ltr motor), but well below the V8.

I could see Nissan doing that: NA 6, turbo 4, turbo 6. That would be a nice range of options. If they did that, it could go $35K, $40K, $45K ballpark, and the hp could be, say, 350, 375, 400-425ish, respectively.

I think if they offered something like that -- kept the weight down, and the fit and finish looking sharp -- it would be a real hit with current Z fans and really give the pony car crowd something to seriously mull over.

I don't know what the hell Toyota is thinking regarding the FR-S. Its doomed to be an afterthought for someone considering a MX-5 if they don't give it a significant bump in power. A factory roots blower making another 60- 80 hp and tq right off idle would make that car PERFECT.

Originally Posted by Houston Z33 (Post 3160501)

To touch back on the interior subject, Frankly the Z34 is just as "Luxurious" as a sports car needs to be - Only thing I can think of to add is A/C seats to the Coupe (why is this Roadster only?!)

Tech wise we're pretty damned outdated as well - Case in point....To this day we still need the Nav Package to stream BT Audio while the current Altima can stream it with no problem, without nav....My Wife's '15 Sonata Limited is mind blowing. The car damned near drives itself and it starts at 20k is about 30k fully dolled up like hers is.

Also, Hyundai BlueLink is BAD. ***. I really hope Nissan steps it's game up and adds something like this to it's lineup.

Power wise if we don't have 400+ HP, We're a failure - No questions asked....the V8s are kissing 450hp out the box nowadays.

IMO the 370Z was damned near perfect, it just needed more power.

Originally Posted by Leroydsouza (Post 3160640)

I would pay $60k for a 3.7 TT Z. Heck i would pay more.
i dont mind the 'outdated' engine.
I have done it once and i will gladly do it again.

:worship:

Originally Posted by Leroydsouza (Post 3160680)

I said 3.7 with a twin turbo.
The tt is worth 10k alone..if we are getting all that with no downtime..it most definitely seems worth it

Originally Posted by Duc_Z09 (Post 3160746)

Only to people like you and I who want massive power and are willing to pull out their wallets for it. To make sense financially a car like the Z also has to appeal to the buyer who's just looking for a sporty coupe to bop around in:shakes head: So if it's too overpriced to compete with v6 Mustangs, Scibarus, and Miatas, they're going to lose a lot of sales.

If I were on Nissan's board I'd say screw the average consumer and let's only offer a TT 6MT hardtop with adjustable coil-overs, launch control and variable boost... but maybe that's why I'm not in business. They'd sell like 5 of them.:rofl2:

Originally Posted by Duc_Z09 (Post 3160746)

but maybe that's why I'm not in business. They'd sell like 5 of them.:rofl2:

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3160677)

You would be the only one. The Z32 died because of this. Nissan simply cannot be THAT fricking stupid again. Amirite?

They can get a nicely loaded Z35 with 400+HP, new engine, everything, for mid $40's. The tooling and platforms are already there. Thats what keeps the current Z pricing reasonable. Its not going to be a Q, itll be exactly where the Z34 is. faster, harder than the G, but fewer "things". For cheaper. And thats the way it should be.

Originally Posted by Z_ealot (Post 3160759)

The z32 died because nissan went bankrupt, end of story

Originally Posted by Duc_Z09 (Post 3160746)

Only to people like you and I who want massive power and are willing to pull out their wallets for it. To make sense financially a car like the Z also has to appeal to the buyer who's just looking for a sporty coupe to bop around in:shakes head: So if it's too overpriced to compete with v6 Mustangs, Scibarus, and Miatas, they're going to lose a lot of sales.

If I were on Nissan's board I'd say screw the average consumer and let's only offer a TT 6MT hardtop with adjustable coil-overs, launch control and variable boost... but maybe that's why I'm not in business. They'd sell like 5 of them.:rofl2:

Originally Posted by Vichtz (Post 3160129)

DEFINATELY don't need a built motor. It's not gonna hurt, but people make over 500 without touching internals. I added price of fuel pump and injectors into cost. Also, transmission not necessity but a z1 flywheel/clutch combo are always very reasonably priced. Even if you built the motor, you would get out for less than 60k. That's my point haha. Like everyone has always said I just hope there is a factory turbo option, otherwise 60k is gonna be a hard sell

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3160781)

yea, due to piss poor marketing and business strategy. The Z32 is a prime example of failure in both aspects.

Originally Posted by Firebase99 (Post 3160781)

yea, due to piss poor marketing and business strategy. The Z32 is a prime example of failure in both aspects.

Originally Posted by RicerX (Post 3161052)

The Z32 had a lot of factors in its demise.

If you notice, Nissan wasn't alone in retiring their sports car in the American market during this time. In fact, they did so within two years of their competition retiring the Supra, 3000GT, and RX-7 in the American market. The 300ZX made it all the way to 2000 in Japan, as the 3000GT made it to 2001 and the Supra and RX-7 made it to 2002 in Japan.

The rise of the SUV contributed to these cars leaving the American market. People simply weren't buying cars like this anymore, with the exception of the mainstays in the pony cars, which were much cheaper to buy, and cheaper to own and maintain than the turbocharged Japanese cars. Hell, even the Chevy Camaro died during the tail end of that period because of slow sales (and lack of attention from GM as the vehicle went virtually unchanged for 10 years).

Nissan did indeed have a lot of problems, but the Z32's demise was a result of those problems, not the cause of it. Once the Renault/Nissan alliance kicked off and Ghosn took control, the first thing to result from his work was the Z33, which was built to be a true Z car yet more relevant to the current market than its predecessor, which was a success as a result.

I still believe that Nissan "played it safe" with the Z34, but no one could have predicted the partial collapse of the automotive industry (or maybe someone did, hence playing it safe). Now the storm has been weathered, and Nissan can make the Z35 a success by playing to the strengths of the market and staying competitive. They can do it, and they did it with the Z33 - it's just a matter of whether they'll choose to do it for the Z35.

Originally Posted by ZKraken22 (Post 3160973)

So all that for 60k when you can buy a used GT-R for 55k and buy a kit like the SBD700 full bolt on kit for the GT-R for 5k and be at 600+ if on E85. Sorry I'll take the GT-R pound for pound when it comes to performance. When you buy a Z (fully loaded) and push it to 600 hp you're essentially could buy a used GT-R and add bolt on's as I stated. The only way I wouldn't touch my internals when going FI is if the Z wasn't my DD. But it is and can't risk blowing the engine. And I have a 7At so isn't so easy to just upgrade the trans.