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Car and Driver now saying the 3.0 TT V6 is a Nissan design, and only the I4 is Mercedes: The Redeemer: 2017 Infiniti Q60 Dissected – Feature – Car and Driver
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I guesstimate that at least 1/3 of you guys will get this new Z35. A lot of you are acting like the sky is falling. But I think most of you will be surprised in a good way when it debuts. It sounds promising, in either 4-turbo and especially V6-twin-turbo trim.
400 horses, high 12s stock....I think it will be promising. I think it will be around $50Kish for the V6 TT version, which is reasonable. |
For 50k+ i will definitely get a Porsche or German car.
Also v6 3.0 turbo? leave the turbo/supercharged upgrade for us, we need something bigger than the current v6 3.7 |
I wouldn't expect the next Z to cost any more than the current Z. Nissan will want to actually sell a few...
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I still say they can get more power from a NA VQ for future models, BUT I do think they need a turbo option. That option will insure the car competes for the next few years against comparable cars that are putting down some serious power.... and starting to track well.
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It could very well be an amazing car, we still don't know. For it to cost that much, it definitely has to show it's money's worth. Adding 10K recaro seats isn't going to cut it for me either. |
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It's a good thing I'm happy with my Z because I have no idea what I'd replace it with right now. |
Let's not hold our breath for the new Z. This could also be the end of an era with Piss poor sales. As all you said, the new Z will need a serious refresh and definitely a monster motor to spark sales if they intend to make it competitive. If they would drop a slightly detuned gtr twin with a good interior I think the Z would set the bar like it did in 09. We shall see.
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I truly hope is NOT an end of an era.
Edit: But, this will make our 370zs last longer as current body style.:driving: |
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The body and styling of the car is absolutely beautiful though. |
The economy is good enough, I dont see the Z platform taking a hiatus like it did between the 32 and 33 platforms. The have the tooling in place, the tech, to make a bad ***, bargain sports car again. It doesnt HAVE to beat the Cayman S, it just has to come close enough to make prospective Cayman S buyers..."is it worth it?".
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When I spoke with mad mike about the new gen z he kinda didn't look very excited and did state the poor sales and such but never said yes or no. He is in Japan now so maybe just maybe he can leak a little info about it When he gets back. I will keep my ears open on the next few CZOT meets and keep you all posted.
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A Corvette Stingray is 500 hp and starts in the $50k range. If you push the Z into the $50k range without matching or exceeding the Corvette pound for pound, dollar for dollar, and hp for hp, it will last maybe as long as the Z32. If the Z ends up there, it's truly in the Corvette class, whether you want it to be or not - the cars are both two seat sports cars at that point, and you're not going to convert very many, if any, Corvette buyers. The demographic is too "BY MURICA FOR MURICA" to buy a Japanese two seat alternative.
On the other hand, if they do match or exceed it, then you provide a Nissan alternative to the GT-R for less money (500 hp range), and you'll find out how many people bought the GT-R because the Z didn't reach high enough for them. (I'll be willing to bet there are at least a few GT-R owners that would have a Z instead if it had 500 hp). It's a dangerous place to be in and they have to be meticulously strategic with it. The smartest thing you could possibly do with this car is find a way to make it a Camaro SS/Mustang GT/Challenger RT alternative (biggest chunk of the market) while retaining the Z formula. This means that 400-450hp at the same price point given all other things equal (weight from the Z34 for example) would be a larger hit than the Z34 on the market, especially if you gave it some sort of a backseat a la Z32. They have to go where the market is for this car while still being unique. That's why half of these reports are so freakin illogical. A Z with a turbo 4 by itself makes ZERO sense - why move the car to a smaller market (BRZ)? It only makes sense if it's one piece of the puzzle where a higher performance version is offered (turbo 6) because then the market coverage expands to a Camaro/Mustang alternative (multiple powertrains, lower cost of entry, high performance bargain). Those things only work if they meet competitors in the market. Sure a $25k turbo 4 Z makes a ton of sense only if the turbo 6 Z offered with it is in the $40k range (TOPS), not $60k. |
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:iagree: AMEN... I haven't disagreed with one thing you say pertaining to the Z. This car unfortunately is plagued with 50% of its buyers liking the styling but wanting it to be, everything the Z was designed NOT TO BE. Because of this, Nissan Z has the worlds stupidest rumor mill in the whole car industry...It feeds on people that want anything from a more powerful miata, to a mustang competitor to a porsche killer. This one car can't serve every single market. I just stopped looking for Z news till i see a concept or pre-production model. By offering two engines, I think the Z will appeal to a broader market from a price range perspective. Stealing some FRS, Miata buyers with a 2.0 and SOME muscle car buyers with a 3.0TT. Some of the tuner share will be stolen, if the Z is easy and cheap to mod & if it can fight a vette with a few grand in mods? I can imagine a 2900lb 2.0 turbo rated about 276-300hp and a 3100lb 3.0TT rated at 400-420hp. A 2.0 would probably start at $27k and a 3.0 at $34k... If for some crazy reason there is a $60,000 Z? It will probably be a limited production, stroked out 3.4ltr, limited edition 480hp Nismo RS type car that is a track monster RWD version of a GT-R. Otherwise? It ain't happenin'!! Nissans goal is probably to sell 20k/30k units annually in the U.S. and 60K worldwide. Im sure they're not expecting to hit the 80k mark annually like the camaro does. Making it broader in the price range should help that goal. |
i can easily see a TT Z retailing for over $50,000. Some people are delusional if you expect a TT Z to be in the mid 30,000 range.
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Maybe well see something at ZdayZ.
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I think 45K starting point would be ideal for twin turbo z35
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One feature that I would really like the Z35 to have is Launch Control. Now, that would be awesome to have.
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Higk $30k range is where a TT needs to start (with it topping out around $48k a la NISMO). It will be pricier than many of the comparable cars, but not so pricey that they've priced themselves out of the market.
It's not total delusion to think it could start out in mid-$30k range, though it's not quite as likely as the aforementioned pricing. Nissan has been quite active in the turbo game for the past several years with the GT-R and Juke, amongst other global offerings. This means more efficient with manufacturing costs while utilizing existing partnerships for parts. The GT-R serves as a halo car for many purposes other than marketing - it's also a research car. The performance teams working on that car are developing the technologies that will eventually trickle down into the rest of Nissan's lineup in some form. The price of it can be driven down if we're talking about sharing the platform with other offerings (we are - Q60 at minimum at this point). At the end of the day, it's about profit. To obtain profit, you need to limit overhead while effectively penetrating the market and properly competing. (yep - I used the word 'penetrating'). It's definitely going to be interesting, and the bottom line is this: the consumer benefits when there is good competition and plenty of options. Look at the market now versus when the 350Z was on its last model year. The difference in market options is staggering. |
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This isn't 2008, MOST the performance cars on the market are turbo or going turbo. That drives demand down making turbocharging more affordable. Worst case scenario... The Z will start at 39k as a TT. The smart year one price though would be mid 30's. |
I'd love it if they did a stripped car that was well equipped as a performance car. I'd say that should be the NISMO, but it seems Nissan is more interested in selling the NISMO with a lot of gadgets and add-ons lately.
I'd like to see similar formulas to how the 370Z used to be (I hate the 2015 packages, whoever thought of them should be fired) with the TT motor being another option, i.e... Base NA Base + Sport NA Base Turbo Base + Sport Turbo Touring + Sport Turbo Something along those lines. Do the base with the turbo, so the guys planning their own BBK setup and so on can get the car without a bunch of stuff they are going to take off. Then again, it may be cheaper to build them all with the TT, so we get something like this: Base Turbo Base + Sport Turbo Touring + Sport Turbo Do people really buy the Touring package without the Sport features? Apparently Nissan thinks they do, or want to... So maybe I'm in the minority. |
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Good point. They need to stay competitive and that includes a good price for performance. |
Straight up, They need to offer V8 pony car numbers for V8 pony car prices.
The main reason the 350Z did so well is because of the 25k starting price and your only other choice was a Miata or a Mustang in that bracket back then. Then the 30k starting 370Z had to go against 400+HP V8s for also 30k, Most folks want the rumble in a straight line and don't understand WTF handling is. N/A Z35 needs to be in the Mid 20s, TT Z35 can start in the Mid to Low 30s. |
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.....at $40K. :iagree: |
What house only costs $100k and who's going to install a TT kit and oil cooler for free? Also, please don't tell me you're not going to at least upgrade the clutch.
I think someone needs to check his math.:rolleyes: |
My house cost $100,000 new construction, but I added a patio and crap so it was more... Install for free, good luck.
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The current Z with 337 HP has plenty of get up and go. It would be retarded to go to a smaller displacement engine and add the complexity of twin turbos.
I don't know if it is possible with the basic engine block now to increase the bore & stroke (especially the stroke to give some more low end torque) but if they could get 375-380 HP out of a normally aspirated engine and increase the torque it would be a great sports car made even greater. A few minor tweaks to the interior like adding some Dynamat equivalent to deaden the road noise and restyle stupid gas and temp gauges and there would be no need for a large price increase. Oh, and stay away from DI systems too. They still need development. The 20 something motorheads who think they need 500 HP can buy a Mustang, Camaro, 'Vette or Challenger and cry when it falls apart, gets recalled, or is in the shop with problems that shouldn't be happening from manufacturers that have been building cars for a century. |
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I know the 1990 + Supra Turbos had MSRPs of $65,000 back then. i don't recall the price for the 300ZX TT but the NAs were priced at $40,000 MSRP which caused their downfall. Now fast forward 20 plus years later, Is $65K too much for a turbo'd Z?
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http://www.vipimports.com/98QS/017.jpg |
OMG when was the last time anyone saw a dealer sticker with $0.00 for ANY optional or dealer installed items? Lol
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