[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

FPenvy

one was at cars and coffee last week all blacked out. sexy in person....sadly still an outdated manual gearbox.

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324whp/258wtq AAM Tuned |F.I. NonRes CF CBE/NonRes TestPipes #373|UpRev Tuner|Akuma Motorsports Intakes|Z1 34 Row Oil Cooler

triso07

I refuse to accept that with all the engineering prowess behind Nissan they can't produce a V6 that has 375hp and drop 1-200lbs of weight. It's not unrealistic. It might be unrealistic with the current VQ motor, but this is a complete overhaul of a car.

As for fuel savings, Nissan already has a ton of cars that are economical. They can make the Z as efficient as it can be for a sports car and call it a day.

Also, if you are concerned about price there is a very easy solution:

4 banger entry model with no frills for cheap
NA 6 sport model for more money
Nismo Turbo model for even more money

It's not rocket science. America has done this for years with the Mustang and Camaro.

RicerX

You are all over the place.

You're not considering the business aspect of it at all. They can't (or won't) afford to make an engine specifically for this car, much less three of them. They've already committed to a V6 twin turbo motor that will likely get dropped into the Q50 and is confirmed in the Q60. That motor will not be lighter than the VQ37, but if it is, it will not be by much. Think about it - should Nissan use THREE different engines, you have a platform design challenge already. That means the lowest common denominator for design has to accommodate the largest engine. How are you going to downsize the chassis? You're not. Go look at the engine bay of an Infiniti M56 and compare it to an Infiniti M37. That car is almost a foot longer in the nose so it can accommodate a 5.6L V8.

Your master plan of three engine models to take care of pricing is totally hosed. A turbo 4 Z (which will be needed to move the weight of the platform that will have to hold an NA 6 and turbo 6) will be no less than $25k. Which means a regular V6 will be at the same price as the current 370, and a twin turbo nismo model will be in the $50k range, guaranteed. Guess what's going to happen with that? The top model will hardly sell and be discontinued. The midrange model won't be terribly competitive. The bottom model will depend solely on the health of the market at the BRZ and Miata level, which isn't looking good for anything except the Miata.

Fuel efficiency and emissions is a completely different argument. You can't draw a straight line between the two.

Finally - when in the blue **** have the Camaro or Mustang ever lost weight while gaining power?

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wanderer1234

It's never gonna happen because it's not cost effective from Nissan's view, but, if they did make a Nismo Turbo that cost even more money, how many of those are going to sell? That turbo version will probably be in the 50k+ range and that is getting close to the Corvette.

Nissan's been in that price range before with the Z32 and don't wanna go back, besides they already said they wanna take the Z back to its root which is more affordable.

triso07

The bottom line is Nissan was charging too much for a car that was being outperformed in its segment (yes I know it technically isn't a muscle car competitor, but we both agree casual buyers and performance on a budget buyers are cross shopping the two).

People were clamoring for Nissan to add more performance to the 370z but it stayed out of the game and as a result got stale. I still love that car, but I'm a sports car lover, and probably in the minority. They kept coming out with Nismo models that had marginal HP and handling increases, but charged a lot more money for them.

RicerX

So which segment does the Z compete in? Furthermore, how is Nissan charging too much for it versus its alternatives?

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GZ3

it needs to say in the segment its getting raped in. You can stroll into a ford dealer and pick up a 5.0 for the price of a Z, get a base model gt350 once mark up is over for cheaper than a NISMO, go to a chevy dealer and get an SS or 1LE for the price of a Z, A dodge dealer get a scat pack challenger or charger for less than a NISMO, Challenger for the same as a Z, ...all cars that will easily beat a Z. NISSAN needs to wake up, put a turbo 6 good for about 400/400, or just do the Heritage a favor and retire it. Maybe come back a few years from now when they are ready to get their heads out of their ***'

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09 GT-R
12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN
12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

Z_ealot

A base model gt350 has an msrp of just a hair below $48k so you're a bit off on the nismo comparison, but yeah a base 5.0 isn't off by much compared to the price of a base Z

GZ3

nismo Z's are going for 48-49k here in texas. I can snap a pic later...its ridicules

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09 GT-R
12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN
12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

FPenvy

at the auctions the nismo w/ tech is only 35-38k

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GZ3

thats about what i would pay No more...and even 38 is a bit high lol

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09 GT-R
12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN
12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

triso07

No you're right Ricer we should just accept our new crossover overlords ... because business case.

Not really sure how I'm "all over the place". I just don't think you like that I disagree with you.

As for Camaro and Mustang, I don't believe anywhere in my post I referred to them losing weight and gaining power. I was referring to the multiple levels of trim offered by Ford and Chevy for their muscle cars. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot with this one though since the new Camaro is losing weight and adding power lol. By the way Ford and Chevy are listening to their target audience and building cars those people want to buy, which is why they are selling so successfully. Can you say the same for Nissan and the Z?

As for the motor. They won't make one specifically for this car is the appropriate wording. A turbo 6 pulled from the Q50 would be fine, even if it's heavier. However that turbo 6 will need to make some solid power. They can't throw it in with 350hp especially if there's a weight gain. If Nissan can't lose some weight on the Z then it needs to make up for that in power levels. Something has to give on one end or the other to pull some more performance out of the car.

Nissan needs to decide what the Z is.

Is it a budget Cayman sports car? If so slightly lighter weight, a little more power, and some modernizing will do it.

Is it a budget sporty performance coupe that competes with Americas big 3? If it is, then weight can stay right were it is, throw a turbo motor in, and bump power enough so that performance is on par with the muscle cars.

I certainly don't view it as a BRZ/Genesis/Miata competitor, but if they do then god help us.

RicerX

I have people respectfully disagree with me everyday, but at least they can articulate a coherent point in doing so. It's not just that we disagree, it's that the "point" you're making in your previous posts isn't rooted in reality whatsoever. However, now that you're taking more time to articulate yourself, it's getting much better.

In order to accurately speculate as to what Nissan will do with this thing, you have to understand how Nissan is going to approach this from a business case because they're currently in love with their billions in profits. They have to build the next Z to make money, or they won't build it, and how they start is how cost-effective it will be for them to design and produce.

Ok the Camaro is losing weight and adding power for the first time in its history. I overlooked that to my detriment. However, the Mustang gained weight and not much power to offset it. So perhaps you're also shooting yourself in the foot by leaving that out of your rebuttal?

Let's focus on this reality, however, which still reinforces my original point - Chevy is doing this on the Alpha platform that is shared across three vehicles with more in the pipeline (CTS, ATS, and Camaro with future vehicles being considered, and these are all volume cars!) This helps them create more profit and in turn increase flexibility. The Mustang does not yet share its platform with anyone, but it's a long established VOLUME car that Ford can afford to do more with, and it's consistently the #1 or #2 seller in its segment. What does Nissan have that they can create this type of scenario with? If they're going to downsize, they can't share a platform with the Q50. If they're going to stay the same, then it looks like they would continue using the FM platform that is currently the G/Z, but with the G/Q40 being done after this year, that's not even cost effective anymore, so that's very unlikely.

The Z isn't a volume car, and as such, it won't get volume R&D dollars to create "optimum design scenarios" unless it streamlines with some other strategy Nissan has not yet revealed.

Hey! We agree here. But what about for the other two motors you think they should have available a la pony cars? Where would those come from?

We also agree here.

Many would argue that it already is in 370Z form, including myself, but Nissan has already indicated that it won't go this direction for the next gen.

We also agree here. You are showing great improvement.

Many, including some of the longtime Nissan guys that were around when the 240Z came out, would disagree with you here. Today's definition of "affordable sports car" is different than what it was in the 70s when there was less competition, less diversity in the market, and less money to be thrown around for cars from prospective buyers.

So I proposed to you this - would a car that's 2800lbs-ish with a 250hp/250tq-ish turbo 4 on a solid platform that costs around $27k really be such a bad thing?

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Firebase99

Just like in other thread....no it wouldnt be bad, Id like to see 300/300. EASILY done with a boosted 4 banger too. Id be in one, loaded for $33k.

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'14 3.8 Genesis Coupe, '13 Volvo S60, '04 Honda Accord, '13 370Z-sold, '05 350Z Touring-sold, '92 300Z Twin Turbo-sold, '82 280ZX-gone, '79 260Z-gone

njobe89

STi is 300/300 i believe, but they're also almost 40k loaded here.

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