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Originally Posted by JARblue What they need to do is stop half-a$$ing the implementation of technology. Either you are in full control of the vehicle or something else is in

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Old 09-17-2016, 12:48 PM   #2701 (permalink)
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What they need to do is stop half-a$$ing the implementation of technology. Either you are in full control of the vehicle or something else is in full control. None of this "well you don't have to do anything but you still have to pay attention" bull$hit like the current iterations. Of course, giving over full control to AI is extremely problematic in itself, like Jordo! points out. Although, I'm not convinced that an incompetent driver not paying attention has any chance of making a "better" decision in an emergency than a well-developed AI.

Frankly, the way I see it, the main problem is way too many people have drivers licenses to begin with, which makes everyone feel fuckin entitled to drive. If we made the driving test so that only competent people could get a license, the roads would be much safer.
Well said.
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Old 09-17-2016, 05:42 PM   #2702 (permalink)
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What they need to do is stop half-a$$ing the implementation of technology. Either you are in full control of the vehicle or something else is in full control. None of this "well you don't have to do anything but you still have to pay attention" bull$hit like the current iterations. Of course, giving over full control to AI is extremely problematic in itself, like Jordo! points out. Although, I'm not convinced that an incompetent driver not paying attention has any chance of making a "better" decision in an emergency than a well-developed AI.

Frankly, the way I see it, the main problem is way too many people have drivers licenses to begin with, which makes everyone feel fuckin entitled to drive. If we made the driving test so that only competent people could get a license, the roads would be much safer.
Yes Sir.... New York City they make it hard to pass a road test. And it should be that way. They should require an IQ of at least 108 as well
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Old 09-17-2016, 06:22 PM   #2703 (permalink)
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It's not just testing people better. Heavier repercussions for delinquent insurance. Repeated testing throughout your life.

Of course with that you'll probably end up with more government nannies. Tradeoff?
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:09 AM   #2704 (permalink)
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A lot of places here, like Los Angeles, don't have adequate public transportation for drivers licenses to be limited. A lot of people wouldn't be able to get to work or do a lot of other daily things.
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Old 09-18-2016, 08:27 AM   #2705 (permalink)
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Well, that's another sore point in the US. Our public transit outside of major cities kinda sucks. Dirty, unreliable, unuseful. On top of that, everyone wants their own vehicle anyway.
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:08 PM   #2706 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 View Post
Yes Sir.... New York City they make it hard to pass a road test. And it should be that way. They should require an IQ of at least 108 as well
If they did that, they'd disqualify a lot of cops from driving.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News

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The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.
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Old 09-18-2016, 08:05 PM   #2707 (permalink)
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If they did that, they'd disqualify a lot of cops from driving.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News
Is that for real?

If so, that is bizarre. And yes, it's discrimination.

Whatever that test measures, it's unlikely to reflect more than a fraction of what we consider "intelligence" anyway.

In any case, the more intelligent applicants will deliberately score low to avoid that problem, at least if they are informed of it.

Also, what does that say about those eventually being promoted to a detective? Why try and limit your key problem-solvers on intellect?

I won't even get into the weaknesses of their theory in regard to intellect and boredom... or law enforcement, or anything for that matter...
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:36 AM   #2708 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jordo! View Post
Is that for real?

If so, that is bizarre. And yes, it's discrimination.
Yeah, it's for real.

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Whatever that test measures, it's unlikely to reflect more than a fraction of what we consider "intelligence" anyway.
Maybe so, but the department thinks it measures something they don't want. Critical thinking? I saw in another article they also screen out people who have (too much?) compassion. So they want dispassionate and average intellect police officers, apparently.

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In any case, the more intelligent applicants will deliberately score low to avoid that problem, at least if they are informed of it.

Also, what does that say about those eventually being promoted to a detective? Why try and limit your key problem-solvers on intellect?
I agree - but maybe they recruit college grads in a different way for detective track? Not sure.

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Old 09-19-2016, 12:29 PM   #2709 (permalink)
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Getting a little to close to talking politics here guys


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Old 09-19-2016, 01:21 PM   #2710 (permalink)
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Lol it is not politics at all...it is psychology and it is backed up by research. It is not about ruling out smart people as IQ is not everything you want people that will not get burned out, know how to think independently but follow orders. Being a patrol cop takes unique person and in most cities and counties in America agencies spend a ton of money vetting potential candidates befor they go to an Academy for formal training and after that the person is put through rigorous field training with the agency of hire. It is about a 9 to 12 month process so you don't want to spend a lot of money on a person that will quit or wash out because they want to be Chief or question everything before they finish training.

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Old 09-19-2016, 05:44 PM   #2711 (permalink)
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Y
Maybe so, but the department thinks it measures something they don't want. Critical thinking? I saw in another article they also screen out people who have (too much?) compassion. So they want dispassionate and average intellect police officers, apparently.
Yeesh. No comment, but I can't say I'm surprised.

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Lol it is not politics at all...it is psychology and it is backed up by research. It is not about ruling out smart people as IQ is not everything you want people that will not get burned out, know how to think independently but follow orders. Being a patrol cop takes unique person and in most cities and counties in America agencies spend a ton of money vetting potential candidates befor they go to an Academy for formal training and after that the person is put through rigorous field training with the agency of hire. It is about a 9 to 12 month process so you don't want to spend a lot of money on a person that will quit or wash out because they want to be Chief or question everything before they finish training.

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Well... it depends on what one means by "intelligence" or "boredom". Both constructs are poorly defined in the classic literature.

In any case, there is evidence that IQ test scores tend to be positively correlated with detail oriented processing, so one might argue they are defining police work on the basis of tedium-tolerance or something... which could be construed as a form of boredom-resistance. But detail oriented reasoning vs. looking for "broad stroke" sensory-perceptual events is going to vary incredibly from situation to situation, so I'm just going to assume they have some tests and aren't sure what many of them might actually measure.

That's how it is in most organizations, frankly.

Anyway, it's most likely some other personality or reasoning test that may or may not predict anything related to IQ, intelligence as a concept, etc.

Actually, most of the most widely used, commercially available psychological inventories and skills tests are based on archaic theoretical views (meaning, either generally considered to be incorrect, very contained in meaningfulness, or incredibly culturally biased based on contemporary theory and research in the relevant phenomena to be assessed) and are frequently unreliable and/or invalid. And that's assuming someone can even score and interpret it.

All I want to know is if law enforcement officer-applicants are given the old "F scale" personality test... a high scoring law-enforcement officer would be worrisome...

What's wrong with questioning things? If that's the concern, they might consider administering the Need For Closure test... although it also isn't the greatest psychometric instrument out there for measuring the relevant constructs, which boil down to something like: prefers straightforward, "black & white" answers over ambiguous ones that may beg further questions to be mulled over.

There's some newer, pretty good measures out there for assessing varying degrees of ambiguity tolerance and the variety of ways you can respond to the ambiguous. Long studied concept (ambiguity tolerance vs. intolerance) and its much more complex than it sounds.
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:58 PM   #2712 (permalink)
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Let's change this topic on police. I have a lot of actual and factually why the NYPD would do something like that. Explaining that breaks forum policy. As is the topics now being discussed. We are supposed to be talking about Z's, not IQ tests and cops. Though it's my fault for saying people should have IQ tests to get licenses, which was also a derailing comment. My bad.
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:50 PM   #2713 (permalink)
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Why do people release news articles like this?
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Old 09-19-2016, 08:02 PM   #2714 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jordo! View Post
Yeesh. No comment, but I can't say I'm surprised.


Well... it depends on what one means by "intelligence" or "boredom". Both constructs are poorly defined in the classic literature.

In any case, there is evidence that IQ test scores tend to be positively correlated with detail oriented processing, so one might argue they are defining police work on the basis of tedium-tolerance or something... which could be construed as a form of boredom-resistance. But detail oriented reasoning vs. looking for "broad stroke" sensory-perceptual events is going to vary incredibly from situation to situation, so I'm just going to assume they have some tests and aren't sure what many of them might actually measure.

That's how it is in most organizations, frankly.

Anyway, it's most likely some other personality or reasoning test that may or may not predict anything related to IQ, intelligence as a concept, etc.

Actually, most of the most widely used, commercially available psychological inventories and skills tests are based on archaic theoretical views (meaning, either generally considered to be incorrect, very contained in meaningfulness, or incredibly culturally biased based on contemporary theory and research in the relevant phenomena to be assessed) and are frequently unreliable and/or invalid. And that's assuming someone can even score and interpret it.

All I want to know is if law enforcement officer-applicants are given the old "F scale" personality test... a high scoring law-enforcement officer would be worrisome...

What's wrong with questioning things? If that's the concern, they might consider administering the Need For Closure test... although it also isn't the greatest psychometric instrument out there for measuring the relevant constructs, which boil down to something like: prefers straightforward, "black & white" answers over ambiguous ones that may beg further questions to be mulled over.

There's some newer, pretty good measures out there for assessing varying degrees of ambiguity tolerance and the variety of ways you can respond to the ambiguous. Long studied concept (ambiguity tolerance vs. intolerance) and its much more complex than it sounds.
Talk about psychobabble ...I'm with getting back to the subject at hand lol!

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Old 09-19-2016, 09:48 PM   #2715 (permalink)
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Why do people release news articles like this?
2017 Nissan 350Z, 240SX, Silvia might be the future sportscars
Boredom? Lack of pu$$y?
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