I’ll always be of the opinion that value wise, headache wise, etc, modding a factory fi’d car is always the smarter move vs going fi on an na car.

At Msrp, I don’t think there’s a value issue with the new Z, the price is fair imo. Now, the markups, any markups on this car are ridiculous but the market will bear what it will bear.

Unfortunately, in our post Covid world of high inflation and permanent supply chain issues, everything is more expensive “than it should be” so it’s hard to see any value anywhere anymore, and even as inflation is moderating somewhat, prices never go back down so we’re kinda stuck.

The manual Supra is a tempting car for sure, Toyota was smart to release it. I’m personally not a fan of the looks of the Supra, but I do love it’s performance/interior and the bmw tuning potential is awesome. Even just a jb4 is killer.

It’s actually really nice that we still have these options available to us as enthusiasts still in ‘23+.

Impressions:

In comparison I don't like the electronic steering. I didn't try Sport mode so that may have helped. If I wasn't doing a direct comparo I might not mind it, but......

The new Z feels even more like a touring car and less like a spirited racer. Its smoother overall...

Add to it that the interior noise level is much quieter in back. Not sure what they put back there (new owners need to take out the panels and show us), but it's much more subdued than my car with 100% full fatmat in back. But....

The exhaust note is now clear as day and much louder inside the car. Compared to mine it almost sounds fake like its being pumped in (like on some electric cars).

The auto trans shifter knob contraption is HORRIBLE. Wow do I hate that thing. Completely stupid how it works. Having all buttons (next to the START button) would have looked and operated better.

More next.....

Anyone saying the interior is an upgrade is smoking crack in my mind. First of all, the back is the exact same. The doors are the same except the trim is now black, and the plastic thing around the window buttons is even cheaper crappy looking plastic (I had mine covered with real carbon fiber in matte finish). The seats are the exact same. Only the dash, center console, and steering wheel is different.

Steering wheel has nicer leather than my 370. But, the buttons and stuff to make things work is convoluted in my opinion. Its certainly much harder to operate while driving than the simple 370 layout.

I don't like the fancy pancy readouts. I didn't even try the radio, but I find its size and angled pushed into the cockpit design obtrusive. I like my Sport 370 much more. Mine is more pure sports car.

The driver center is a bunch of gimmicky looking lights. One of the settings is just really dumb. I didn't sit and study it all but I much prefer my old school fully analog gauges.

I wish I had gotten a chance to try the launch control. Oh well. The new manual mode shifter only has paddles. That sucks because when I'm in manual mode I much prefer pulling and pushing on the shifter itself.

They put what looks like an afterthought piece on top of the driver console, which makes the entire thing higher. They must have thought people actually like the obnoxiously tall one in the Camaro, which I hate.

The extra cup holder would be nice when the wife is riding with me, as is the tailgate latch release.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Again, as I've said before. I don't find this car a reason to swap out a 370 for it. I think its a nice car if you have never had a 370, or are just looking for a cooler car if all you have is sedans or SUVs. Trading in a 370 to get this is a waste of time in my book. I'd look to getting something totally different instead, like the Supra, a Vette, or a Cayman.

Oh wait. My 370 Sport wheels look 100 times better, but that's me maybe. The new wheels are LAME in comparison. Much like boring Ferrari wheels. No thanks. Of course I'm biased, but I think the 370 Sport wheels are among some of the best looking factory stock wheels of all time, on any make car.

Thanks for taking the time to post an in depth review.

I’m looking forward to getting a chance to sit in/drive one at some point.

Not surprised you didn’t like it though. :icon17:

Thanks for the review for sure. That is the one thing I keep hearing (still haven't had the chance to drive one yet but looking forward to it for sure) - that its more GT than sports car. I guess that is okay like you were saying - if you own a sedan or SUV and want something that is sportier etc.

Dealer told me they were already thinking of selling it back at auction (where they got it). Lowered his list to 48k for me. I said no thanks.

Well, the car is no longer out front at their lot, and I saw a yellow one in the auction lot today by where I work. Only caught a quick glimpse. If I remember tomorrow I'll take time to drive in and look. Auctions are on Thursdays so I need to look tomorrow.

If its the same car, that tells me something about a lot of things from slimy dealers to this car's real demand.

Yep, exact same car I drove.

I'm sorry, but NOBODY I know is excited about this car. Everyone thinks its a dud.

Any dealer trying to sell this car with 34k miles for $53k is nuts. Anyone who pays it either has too much money or has a screw loose. This car is not worth all that.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1578fe6a98.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9727e522cf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4fd4b0e284.jpg

Oh, and that yellow does not help. Its somewhat similar to the pail yellow on the C8 Vettes. There is a reason why you just don't see many that color. Pail yellow is just not as desirable on a sports car like a bright yellow is.

I personal think the Supra is better looking and performs better than the new Z in a similar price range.

The C8 is definitely in the different league in term of look, performance and PRICE. A nicely equipped (LT2) is around $80K+ MSRP. However, the current markup is around $10 to $15k for the ones in stock.

I'll stick with my 370Z.

Forget the price, the new Z just doesn't have the "wow" factor and just isn't appealing to me. Depending on the angle, it's to the likes of someone going to the barber and getting a very bad haircut. Nissan added/took away the wrong aspects to/of this car.

Depending on the angle, it looks like the early 2010 Mitsubishi Eclipse (before they made it a crossover), but it also reminds me of an s2k that gained alot of weight in the wrong places.

It definitely looks FAT and heavy compared to the 370.

Car looks very sad there.

guess the $35K mark-up doesn't help.... :rolleyes:

the entire car market is kinda f'ed with all these crazy mark-ups from the stealerships. saw some C8 Z06 with $50 to $60k mark-ups.

More funny news. The yellow Z is STILL sitting up at the auction house! Saw it this morning. That means nobody, not even at auction, wanted the thing for 2 auction cycles now.

I hope people who paid markup for their cars have a lot of money to burn because my gut tells me that was money better put down a toilet. My gut tells me Zs will be sitting around at dealers collecting dust very soon. Once the initial demand dies down, dealers will have a hard time selling them without big discounts. These are all just my opinions of course. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

I'm really not sure Nissan did themselves any favors with this car. I find it kind of sad really.

In a "normal" market, your comment on mark-up's would be somewhat valid. In the current market (post-COVID, Feds raising rates, Feds fighting inflation, supply chain issues, production issues, etc.), there is still limited supply and the demand is still a bit higher than the amount of inventory that is available.

One of the biggest items that is still facing a shortage is semi-conductor chips. Neon gas is needed for production of these. Guess who supplies 70% of the global supply for Neon gas? Ukraine, in which they are currently fighting a war. Guess what is not happening? Production of Neon gas. So guess what chain of events this causes? Shortage of semi-conductors and, subsequently, cars. What happens when you have more demand than supply? Pricing goes up. Dealers are NOT making as much profit as you think, esp. when you include inflation into the equation.

The other side of this equation is timing. With the Feds fighting inflation by raising rates, it's going to be alot more expensive to borrow. And with inflation eroding buying power, your money won't go as far as it used to. Companies still have to meet their bottom line, and when production costs go up, they in turn have to relay these expenses onto the consumer. Consumers now are focused (or should be) on necessities vs. wants.

I think it's a bad time to get into unnecessary debt and a bad time for companies to come out with a new product and hoping it sells.

I hear you... We're in the new normal relatively speaking. Inflation is totally insane during the last few years or since COVID first started. Fed's recent action is historic and yet, the inflation is still heading upward. The Fed's 2% target rate is totally misleading because it is based on 12 month rolling average, especially with the rate trending up for the last few years.

IMO, it need to go negative for a long duration to restore some of the price increases, and yes, it is going to happen.

My neighbor just picked up an Corolla GR for $15k over msrp, and he was jumping for joy. He said he got offer to sell it for $25K over. It is transaction like this that will keep car prices extremely high for a very long time.

There's nothing "normal" with the current market. This is actually a first to where the Feds cannot refer to a previous play or scenario to guide them through the current economic situation. Jerome Powell even admitted to not understanding inflation: "We now understand better how little we understand about inflation" - June 2022.

Barry Habib (one of the world's most respected economists) so eloquently describes inflation as "too many dollars chasing too few goods". When COVID happened, Feds drastically cut rates to prevent the economy from crashing, but the other half of the equation is supply. Due to COVID, the global supply chain was disrupted, so there was alot of money pumped into the economy, but not enough goods to support the demand. This is when inflation really became out of control and the Feds were too late on raising rates to keep inflation in check. Inflation will continue to rise as long as supply is scarce. Raising rates may help, but the biggest key is getting the supply chain back in order.

Buying/selling cars at higher inflated prices will NOT keep car prices high. It is the lack of supply/inventory that will keep prices elevated. If more supply become available, this should stabilize car prices.

of course, it is the very basic concept of supply and demand. The price in general is a result of that equation. I know someone who bought an 911 GTS in the middle of 2020 for $20K off msrp because nobody was buying cars. You can't even touch the same car for at least $20K over msrp now.

IMO, Powell is failing in fighting inflation. He sat on his behind for way too long... "transitory" my a$$. All these crazy rate hikes and QT's haven't done much. Perhaps a recession is needed.

Historically, each time the Feds have previously tried to fight inflation, it always resulted in a recession.

The current economic state is a different scenario and COVID19 had a significant influence on this. It all comes down to supply. IMO, rate hikes, QT's/QE's, a recession will not resolve the current economy. The goal of the rate hikes is to discourage borrowed spending and subsequently lower demand, which also in turn lowers employment. Why do you think employment hasn't gone down even with the significant frequency of rate hikes? Why you do you think inflation hasn't cooled? The demand is still very much there, but the supply is severely lacking, so employers/companies are still in production mode with what materials they have available (hence why the employment rate isn't being lowered).

My biggest concern is that we could be headed for a stagflation at this rate.

We're definitely living in an extraordinary time. Powell has obviously lost the battle against inflation. He has probably another 25 to 50 basis point hike, but that isn't going to fix anything near term. Inflation is still red hot and everything has gone up so much in the last few years.

I personally don't know how and when this is going the end, but I have a bad feeling that it won't end well. Perhaps something like 2008/2009 when one can pick up an 360 for $65K.

Sorry for the off topic discussion...

The 25 to 50 bps increases are typical. The 4 75 bps bumps in 2022 were not normal.

One of the biggest differences from late 2000's to now is regulation, esp. in the mortgage lending/housing industry, which is why I don't understand why people think there will be another housing crash (completely different market then vs now and with alot more regulation).

Going back on topic, I still stand with what I said:

The new Z is ugly. The "upgrades" are not worth it IMO. I'll take the Q60 Red Sport instead.

Nissan really missed the opportunity to make this a better looking car. I am ok with the mechanics, but a better front end and more muscular rear would be nice.

The "mechanics" are nothing new and from previous models. The engine is from the Q60 Red Sport. The doors are identical to the 370Z. The car looks ugly in pictures, and uglier in person. I sat in one at a dealership and was not in the least impressed with it.

The car feels like Nissan scrambled at the 11th hour to produce something just to protect their market share.

When Nissan took a hiatus after the 300ZX, the 350Z was a success due to the time they took to really come out with an innovative product, while building anticipation. IMO, Nissan should have taken some time off after the 370Z and go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Their timing is also bad, when inflation/borrowing costs are going up.

Definitely agree that the timing was WAY off - the beginning of the pandemic, the shortages that we were all seeing and knew it would affect the overall delivery of the product. Once the product has been received - now we are dealing with markups - which is kinda insane when you think about it - bc this is supposed to be a car that will help rejuvenate interest in NISSAN vs turn people off - like it has (if you ask me). Not only that - but if you can offer this car without the markups - then you can compete against Toyota Supra bc personally it feels like this car can't compete with it on performance; but probably could on price.

The thing is though - I feel if they would have waited - it would have never happened. Part of me feels like - maybe they should have done a 'small refresh' like take the 370z and drop a VR30 in it with all the supporting mods and look to add a larger screen with Apple Car Play. Speaking for myself - that is ALL I was looking for. The new design I don't hate but I keep hearing that its more like a cruiser and less like a sports car - if that is the case - then yeah, I'm out. The Nismo definitely isn't helping things by being AUTO only SMH.

Oh well - you get the point - /rant.

Wife picked up her 2023 Macan S. Porsche dealer told her this is last year for Gas powered Macan. I can't see them NOT offering at least a Hybrid/pug-in. For argument sake lets stick to their plan of EV Macan only.

There is the conversation that this may be the last Z or at least Gas powered Z. In which case, why would Nissan do any major update to please the "crowd" in the ICE? Fully knowing that their focus will be on the new generation of EV.

I like the Aria. Is this the ultimate replacement for the murano? It may be.

I don't like this EV revolution. Too many sheeple have been fed the Kool-aid. They are buying EV's for wrong reasons. The part I hate is the forced mandates. Even more, the comparison of an EV to ICE car and how much faster it is.

A bit off topic, but my opinion why the Z is what it is and where it's headed.

We were looking to buy an Q60, but ended up with an Lexus. The VR30 motor has major problems with the turbos, and the engine block where it required the replacement of the short block.

Furthermore, one has to be an idiot to pay $30K+ mark up on the new Z regardless.

I checked out a $62k sticker price Aria just last week. Its alright but certainly far from great. A lot of really cheap fake looking plastic inside. And the inside design is just okay, not great. They tried to think outside the box and failed IMO. This thing is no where near as good as a Murano. The best Murano overall was Gen 1 in 2003. This Aria, being 20 years in the future, doesn't hold a candle to what a stunner the Murano was in 2003.

Absolutely. I love my GEN2 Murano. I was just commenting on which direction the ICE car is going. Used the Murano as a reference.

Yeah, the sticker price is stupid and having not really investigated the interior quality. I'll take your word for it and therefore price becomes even more ridiculous.

I don't want an EV anyway. Some are just nice looking.

yeah not to be an echo and derail this, but yeah, even if it's an EV...the Aria asking price sounds insane when you lay it over Infiniti/Lexus/Acura offerings. I've seen Leaf listings get to near $40k. Sure maybe some rebates put both cars in a more digestible price range, but like just a decade ago the Leaf was going dirt cheap compared to most everything else.

That's basically what they did though. RZ34 is really just a refresh on the Z34 chassis, as the chassis code gives away. VR30 is added and finally some current-gen tech. Behind the dashboard, from the center console back, the cabin is mostly the same as the 370Z. Of course the exterior is significantly refreshed, but the roof lines of the 370Z are still visible.

I was unhappy with Nissan for not doing a full-fledged redesign to show what they're capable of, like with the 350Z's introduction and something that would really go after the GR Supra. Though I guess with production challenges in mind, maybe this chassis refresh was the right move at this time.

I sat in an Aria a few months back at Nissan's GHQ in Japan and it was pretty sweet. I was very impressed to find an interior that was completely designed from the ground up. Not sure if the USDM version is way different. Here's a little video review I did on the interior https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVY-PWUetTk. I last checked out a 2019 Murano at a dealership and that and the many Rogues I've sat in all had (by now) very outdated interiors. This is finally something new from Nissan and I call it a win, purely from a design standpoint.

It's a new design from the ground up for sure. But IMO its 90% glam and nothing to shout about. Why? It looks kinda cool inside, but nothing special compared to other electric offerings. But the features and how it works just aren't great. Like the air vents that look great but just aren't that well made. A tiny little glove box in what is a big car. The center console slides front to rear, but what the frack for? One of those things that's initially "cool", but after thinking about it, when will it ever be used or needed? Neither the dealer nor I could figure out how to get the large center console to open to allow storage. The top section has a top area with a phone charger inside that simply won't be very practical (it's angled backwards for some reason). My poor opinion was exasperated by the fact that the center console was in the slid back position, so placement was odd. There is a new material that is supposed to resemble wood with wood grain. Well I'm here to tell you my PVC vinyl fence in my back yard in dark gray and tan with fake wood grain looks just as good or better. In the Aria all the plastic squeaks, badly. Door panels, console, air vents .... everything I touched moved and squeaked to some extent or another (like a GM car). The only really nice upgrade thing about the Aria interior is the suede alacantra (sp?) leather on the dash. But the leather and leather seats in my old 2004 Murano were made from higher quality finished material. One new thing it appears many new cars are doing (like a big ugly BMW I saw at a car show) because they can, are making the window and door buttons electronic, like a smart phone. Well that may certainly look cool, but in actual use they will completely suck. Who wants to have to look down every time they want to open the window just to see where the button is? In direct comparison to my old 2004 Gen 1 Murano, the Aria is even more modern, and perhaps more plush. But its poorer made with lower quality leather and features that don't really work. There was a magazine review of the Gen 1 Murano many years ago that said something along the lines of "the interior of the Murano belongs in the museum of modern art --- it's simply stunning and a joy to use." The Aria is not that IMO. Its a glam mobile that lacks substance.

I don't think the Aria is a Nissan flop. I think it's a current generation of cars flop. It's simply too much money for what you get.

But then again, I'm not used to this modern new car era either, where even a small Chevy Bolt can cost you $45k. It's a shitty time to have to buy a car, that's for sure.

One more thing, about the outside. Like the new Cadillac I saw a few weeks ago, the *** end is all glam and huge, like a Kardashian ***. And like the Tesla 3 with its fugly black fan wheels, the wheels on the Aria I looked at were some of the most hideous wheels on a car I've ever seen. Just repugnant.

IMO they should have completely killed off the 370Z in 2017. 6 years in the modern era is long, but 8 to 10 years is really long in the tooth. I think sales show that with the 370.

Then they should have spent the time off getting Nissan back in order as a company. Then come out with an all new modern Z in say 2025.

As it is, the new Z (not even a proper name as 3 dealers I've been to call it the 400Z), is a filler car to help aid and bridge a gap. Except I really think it was a waste of time. That's just my opinion of course, which means nothing in reality.

Sounds like we sat in completely different cars, I didn't notice any cheap plastic squeaks. Either that or the USDM Aria production is not on par with the JDM one, though I'd expect both variants are produced in the same plant. The Aria isn't an Infiniti, so don't expect premium luxury on the interior, but the build quality, materials, and especially design language feel modern. The fake wood grain also has to house the HVAC control touch buttons, so it can't be the same type as your fence, and it's one of my favorite parts of the interior. When many newly designed interiors use full on displays to handle things like HVAC, the HVAC controls are a modern touch but they never move around like they do when controlled via digital displays. And there's a nice, large, physical volume knob right in the center of the dash.

I also can't stand when car mfg's turn car interiors into smart phones put everything in an iPad tablet style display. Drivers need fixed buttons for basic controls. Unfortunately the only alternative these days is an incredibly outdated interior where almost nothing has been updated. This one strikes a good balance.

Pricing stinks in just about all new cars these days..

As for the exterior styling, when I first saw one, I really thought I was looking at a Lexus NX. It just looks like a typical SUV these days with some fresh lines, although I'm a bit worried that copper color will not age well.

Ah don't get me started on the 370Z's long production run. I couldn't believe how antiquated the interiors were on 2020 370Z's I sat in and test drove at the dealer. Completely lacking all the "basic" new features found in other cars. No Android Auto/Carplay, no Lane Assist, no Adaptive Cruise. Just the same standard interior that was introduced in '09. The caveat to this was that in case if you wanted a "classic" 370Z in brand-new condition, well you could just buy one at the dealer. Except when you pay "new car money" for a technologically old car, it just doesn't make sense.

It seems that the CEO/political troubles in the company dragged out the introduction of a new Z way longer than was needed. I mean the Project Clubsport 23 was already prepared by Nismo back in 2018. That Nismo 370Z fully equipped with a VR30DDTT, shows where the thinking was headed, but perhaps they couldn't organize internally to make it happen; https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...lubsport-sema/

So we got the "Nissan Z"/"400Z"/"RZ34", since the GR Supra's success required some answer as the aging 370Z specs could no longer compete. I really fully wanted/expected Nissan to introduce a proper answer, but it seems they were unable to with these (internal/external) challenges. My consolation is how few sports cars are on the market today. While the GR Supra is mostly BMW, Nissan is still producing their own sports car. But when I see the C8 Corvette and it's incredible ground-up design, I just imagine what kind of sports car Nissan would answer with if they really tried.

Sounds like we sat in completely different cars, I didn't notice any cheap plastic squeaks. Either that or the USDM Aria production is not on par with the JDM one, though I'd expect both variants are produced in the same plant. The Aria isn't an Infiniti, so don't expect premium luxury on the interior, but the build quality, materials, and especially design language feel modern. The fake wood grain also has to house the HVAC control touch buttons, so it can't be the same type as your fence, and it's one of my favorite parts of the interior. When many newly designed interiors use full on displays to handle things like HVAC, the HVAC controls are a modern touch but they never move around like they do when controlled via digital displays. And there's a nice, large, physical volume knob right in the center of the dash.

I also can't stand when car mfg's turn car interiors into smart phones put everything in an iPad tablet style display. Drivers need fixed buttons for basic controls. Unfortunately the only alternative these days is an incredibly outdated interior where almost nothing has been updated. This one strikes a good balance.

Pricing stinks in just about all new cars these days..

As for the exterior styling, when I first saw one, I really thought I was looking at a Lexus NX. It just looks like a typical SUV these days with some fresh lines, although I'm a bit worried that copper color will not age well.