Roadster

Robert_Nash · 06-02-2009, 02:53 PM

A "hard top" convertible would add 1. weight; 2. cost and 3. mechanics may be too large for the Z platform.

"Convertible" tops today are not very similar (in material) to days of old (at least not what I consider "old) and take very little maintenance as compared to what us old farts had to contend with.

While the Z roadster isn't a stripped down vehicle tuned only for performance, it still is a true sports car - why add extra weight just to have a retractable "hard top" convertible? I don't know what the weight penalty is but I suspect it's fairly substantial.

Then the added costs...a hard top convertible would be more expensive to manufacture and more expensive for the consumer; the roadster will already carry a hefty price tag.

You also have to keep in mind that the top has to fit within the current dimensions of the vehicle and while I'm not sure, I suspect a retractable hard top takes up more room than it's soft-top counterpart which may make it a "no go" for the Z.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a retractable hard top as well but at least for me, I don't drive a convertible to have the top up...if the weather doesn't permit top-down driving then I don't drive my convertible.

Nissan already makes a "hard top" convertible for those who prefer that configuration; the G37 Convertible - it's a pretty nice ride...no real need to duplicate that with the Z especially considering the weight/cost penalty.

I'm really trying to decide right now between getting a 370Z roadster or a Nismo but leaning toward the roadster.

semtex · 06-02-2009, 02:57 PM

So you're planning to trade in your existing Z?

SoCal 370Z · 06-02-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

A "hard top" convertible would add 1. weight; 2. cost and 3. mechanics may be too large for the Z platform.

"Convertible" tops today are not very similar (in material) to days of old (at least not what I consider "old) and take very little maintenance as compared to what us old farts had to contend with.

While the Z roadster isn't a stripped down vehicle tuned only for performance, it still is a true sports car - why add extra weight just to have a retractable "hard top" convertible? I don't know what the weight penalty is but I suspect it's fairly substantial.

Then the added costs...a hard top convertible would be more expensive to manufacture and more expensive for the consumer; the roadster will already carry a hefty price tag.

You also have to keep in mind that the top has to fit within the current dimensions of the vehicle and while I'm not sure, I suspect a retractable hard top takes up more room than it's soft-top counterpart which may make it a "no go" for the Z.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a retractable hard top as well but at least for me, I don't drive a convertible to have the top up...if the weather doesn't permit top-down driving then I don't drive my convertible.

Nissan already makes a "hard top" convertible for those who prefer that configuration; the G37 Convertible - it's a pretty nice ride...no real need to duplicate that with the Z especially considering the weight/cost penalty.

I'm really trying to decide right now between getting a 370Z roadster or a Nismo but leaning toward the roadster.

Robert,

As always our exchanges are at the very least interesting, and typically productive, so here I go, again. Ragtops are a built-in expendable that given the length of ownership add to the bottom line in a deferred billing way. The new BMW Z4 roadster foresaw all the issues you mentioned and BMW smartly opted for a grand tourer with creature comforts at the expensive of handling and feedback (see reviews on the new Z4). The 2009 Infiniti G convertible did not translate well into a roadster—not even remotely as well as the new 370Z convertible. The G roadster reminds me too much of the Lexus SC (and forbid that its designer go into a dissertation on how he started with a glove, and squish the bloody thing about to achieve this amorphous design like the SC's designer did—rubbish).

Rans · 06-02-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

It's a bit surprising that Nissan did not get with the times and create a retracting hardtop versus a ragtop. You don't own a convertible (at least in these price point automobile strata) for performance as they are laden with additional structural requirements. And if you've ever owned a ragtop, their maintenance is a royal PITA. High marks for the transition of the coupe to the topless styling, but huge demerits for old school, old maintenance ragtop.

At the very, very least Nissan should, and hopefully will be offering a factory hardtop that can be hoisted to the roof of your garage during the summer months, but dropped into place during those off-season times.

I understand that the 2010 Roadster will only weigh about 110lbs more than the coupe. Thats amazing for a drop top. And I agree with the other poster who mentioned how much better soft tops are today than in the past. We have a 2001 VW Cabriolet bitch bucket that has never had anything more than a washing done to it over the past 9 years. I like the direction Nissan has taken, at least the soft top is stored away rather than sitting op top of the trunk edge like the VW.

Robert_Nash · 06-02-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

Robert,

As always our exchanges are at the very least interesting, and typically productive, so here I go, again. Ragtops are a built-in expendable that given the length of ownership add to the bottom line in a deferred billing way. The new BMW Z4 roadster foresaw all the issues you mentioned and BMW smartly opted for a grand tourer with creature comforts at the expensive of handling and feedback (see reviews on the new Z4). The 2009 Infiniti G convertible did not translate well into a roadster—not even remotely as well as the new 370Z convertible. The G roadster reminds me too much of the Lexus SC (and forbid that its designer go into a dissertation on how he started with a glove, and squish the bloody thing about to achieve this amorphous design like the SC's designer did—rubbish).

Are you saying that Nissan should have made the new Z roadster a retractable hard top even if they had to sacrifice handling and performance of the Z? If so, then I'm very glad they didn't go that direction. It is true, of course, that soft tops deteriorate (as will anything) over time but my boss has an '04 roadster and the top looks as good now as the day he got it...while it may need replacing some day, I doubt it will be anytime soon.

Overall, I very much prefer the weight gain and cost be kept to a minimum and the handling/agility of the coupe be retained as much as possible in the roadster. There is also the issue, even could a retractable hard top be made to "fit" in the current platform, it would likely mean even more or the already limited luggage space would be lost.

I admit, I may have a different opinion on the matter if I had a roadster that had to be parked outside all the time but as I don't have that problem I have no issues with a soft top.

SoCal 370Z · 06-02-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rans

I understand that the 2010 Roadster will only weigh about 110lbs more than the coupe. Thats amazing for a drop top. And I agree with the other poster who mentioned how much better soft tops are today than in the past. We have a 2001 VW Cabriolet bitch bucket that has never had anything more than a washing done to it over the past 9 years. I like the direction Nissan has taken, at least the soft top is stored away rather than sitting op top of the trunk edge like the VW.

I've found that there are people who prefer ragtops, hardtops, or have gone through their ragtop phase (I am the latter). No matter as people who want to purchase a ragtop—will purchase a ragtop. About the only ragtop I would remotely consider these days is the Spyker C8 Spyder.

SoCal 370Z · 06-02-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Overall, I very much prefer the weight gain and cost be kept to a minimum and the handling/agility of the coupe be retained as much as possible in the roadster. There is also the issue, even could a retractable hard top be made to "fit" in the current platform, it would likely mean even more or the already limited luggage space would be lost.

I admit, I may have a different opinion on the matter if I had a roadster that had to be parked outside all the time but as I don't have that problem I have no issues with a soft top.

I will give Nissan a big A+ for the translation of the coupe to the convertible. This translation is exceeding hard to achieve (as witnessed by so many convertibles that look awful when derived from their coupe counterpart). In true roadster theme it would be interesting if Nissan were able develop a contemporary trunk lid luggage rack accessory. I say this as those who have actually toured with a roadster know that a luggage rack is a valuable asset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Are you saying that Nissan should have made the new Z roadster a retractable hard top even if they had to sacrifice handling and performance of the Z?

It all comes down what chassis rigidity Nissan has been able to achieve on the new roadster as that's the name of the game in handling. If Nissan has pulled it off then I will have to agree with you; if not, then Nissan may as well have gone the comfort route.

semtex · 06-02-2009, 04:20 PM

According to this R&T article, the 370Z was actually designed to be a convertible from the onset:

Road & Track Magazine - New & Future Cars: 2010 Nissan 370Z Roadster (7/2009)

Of particular note:

The 370Z Roadster comes with a standard black cloth top that features a fabric inner liner. Shinjiro "John" Yukawa, the chief project specialist of the 370Z Roadster, opted to stay away from a folding hardtop because he wanted the open-top Z to retain its sports-car spirit.

"A folding hardtop would have turned the 370Z into a boutique car. It would have added more weight and increased its price. I wanted to keep its intent pure, as an affordable sports car," he said.

Also worth noting:

But because of structural reinforcements to the chassis, not to mention the hydraulic system that operates the top, the 370Z Roadster weighs nearly 200 lb. more than the coupe. Therefore, expect the car to be a step slower to 60 mph; we're predicting a time of 5.5 sec.

Lug · 06-02-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

According to this R&T article, the 370Z was actually designed to be a convertible from the onset:

Road & Track Magazine - New & Future Cars: 2010 Nissan 370Z Roadster (7/2009)

Of particular note:

The 370Z Roadster comes with a standard black cloth top that features a fabric inner liner. Shinjiro "John" Yukawa, the chief project specialist of the 370Z Roadster, opted to stay away from a folding hardtop because he wanted the open-top Z to retain its sports-car spirit.

"A folding hardtop would have turned the 370Z into a boutique car. It would have added more weight and increased its price. I wanted to keep its intent pure, as an affordable sports car," he said.

Also worth noting:

But because of structural reinforcements to the chassis, not to mention the hydraulic system that operates the top, the 370Z Roadster weighs nearly 200 lb. more than the coupe. Therefore, expect the car to be a step slower to 60 mph; we're predicting a time of 5.5 sec.

Kinda a misnomer. Cars like the Vette are designed with the roof not providing any major structural support. He means designed from an aesthetic point of view on the 370Z. The Vette convertible only weighs about 30 lbs more than the coupe. The 200lbs is mostly extra bracing under the chassis.

Robert_Nash · 06-02-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

...The Vette convertible only weighs about 30 lbs more than the coupe. The 200lbs is mostly extra bracing under the chassis.

Where do you get the "30 lbs" from and is that the 'Vette with the power convertible top or the manual one?

The Corvette website lists the exact same curb weight for all four versions of the convertible and apparently makes no allowance for the fact that as you "move up the line" in model; various equipment/options are added that also must be adding weight.

Lug · 06-02-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Where do you get the "30 lbs" from and is that the 'Vette with the power convertible top or the manual one?

The Corvette website lists the exact same curb weight for all four versions of the convertible and apparently makes no allowance for the fact that as you "move up the line" in model; various equipment/options are added that also must be adding weight.

Edmunds list the current coupe at 3217 lbs and the convertible at 3246 lbs.

Robert_Nash · 06-02-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

Edmunds list the current coupe at 3217 lbs and the convertible at 3246 lbs.

But which version of convertible and which version of coupe?

Whether it's Edmunds or some other source, without knowing exactly what equipment was on each of the two different models (that generated the two weights you mention above), there is no way to tell how exactly how much weight difference the convertible top actually makes between the two vehicles.

For example, if you had a loaded coupe (all the bells and whistles) compared to a stripped-down (manual top) convertible then you can't say that the only difference in weight between the two vehicles is that one is a coupe and one is a convertible.

I guess what I'm saying is that I suspect the real weight difference is more than just 30 lbs but hey, I could be wrong!

Modshack · 06-02-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

"A folding hardtop would have turned the 370Z into a boutique car. It would have added more weight and increased its price. I wanted to keep its intent pure, as an affordable sports car," he said. [/INDENT]
Also worth noting:

But because of structural reinforcements to the chassis, not to mention the hydraulic system that operates the top, the 370Z Roadster weighs nearly 200 lb. more than the coupe. Therefore, expect the car to be a step slower to 60 mph; we're predicting a time of 5.5 sec.

Also noteworthy is the 450+ weight penalty the New G37 Folding hardtop pays for this feature...

Personally I think the 370 Looks good. I could not stand the 350 Roadster...probably why my dealer begged me to buy one at $10K off...

370Z_Fan · 06-03-2009, 12:16 AM

MutantChicken · 06-03-2009, 02:03 AM

Look at the bright side, if you get the covertable you lose the horrible blindspots ( at least with the top down ), and here in Ca. the top would be down most of the time, I don't care if I have to wear a jacket ! It's a great looking car, and I love that Black Cherry color too. It looks just so so with the top up, but I can live with that to have the drop top down the rest of the time.

06-02-2009, 02:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 17	A "hard top" convertible would add 1. weight; 2. cost and 3. mechanics may be too large for the Z platform. "Convertible" tops today are not very similar (in material) to days of old (at least not what I consider "old) and take very little maintenance as compared to what us old farts had to contend with. While the Z roadster isn't a stripped down vehicle tuned only for performance, it still is a true sports car - why add extra weight just to have a retractable "hard top" convertible? I don't know what the weight penalty is but I suspect it's fairly substantial. Then the added costs...a hard top convertible would be more expensive to manufacture and more expensive for the consumer; the roadster will already carry a hefty price tag. You also have to keep in mind that the top has to fit within the current dimensions of the vehicle and while I'm not sure, I suspect a retractable hard top takes up more room than it's soft-top counterpart which may make it a "no go" for the Z. All things being equal, I'd prefer a retractable hard top as well but at least for me, I don't drive a convertible to have the top up...if the weather doesn't permit top-down driving then I don't drive my convertible. Nissan already makes a "hard top" convertible for those who prefer that configuration; the G37 Convertible - it's a pretty nice ride...no real need to duplicate that with the Z especially considering the weight/cost penalty. I'm really trying to decide right now between getting a 370Z roadster or a Nismo but leaning toward the roadster. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama - Last edited by Robert_Nash; 06-02-2009 at 02:55 PM.

06-02-2009, 02:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	So you're planning to trade in your existing Z? __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

06-02-2009, 04:20 PM	#23 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	According to this R&T article, the 370Z was actually designed to be a convertible from the onset: Road & Track Magazine - New & Future Cars: 2010 Nissan 370Z Roadster (7/2009) Of particular note: The 370Z Roadster comes with a standard black cloth top that features a fabric inner liner. Shinjiro "John" Yukawa, the chief project specialist of the 370Z Roadster, opted to stay away from a folding hardtop because he wanted the open-top Z to retain its sports-car spirit. "A folding hardtop would have turned the 370Z into a boutique car. It would have added more weight and increased its price. I wanted to keep its intent pure, as an affordable sports car," he said. Also worth noting: But because of structural reinforcements to the chassis, not to mention the hydraulic system that operates the top, the 370Z Roadster weighs nearly 200 lb. more than the coupe. Therefore, expect the car to be a step slower to 60 mph; we're predicting a time of 5.5 sec. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

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370Z_Fan Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 238 Drives: 2010 MB ZR sport pkg Rep Power: 16

06-03-2009, 02:03 AM	#30 (permalink)
MutantChicken Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NorCal Posts: 40 Drives: 2004 Ram-2007 Harley Rep Power: 16	Look at the bright side, if you get the covertable you lose the horrible blindspots ( at least with the top down ), and here in Ca. the top would be down most of the time, I don't care if I have to wear a jacket ! It's a great looking car, and I love that Black Cherry color too. It looks just so so with the top up, but I can live with that to have the drop top down the rest of the time.