Racing your Roadster?
 

Does anybody race your Roadster, or am I the only ******* crazy enough to try it? :rofl2:

I have been trying to get a definitive answer on whether or not I will be able to race my damn car but nobody's gotten back to me yet. Are any of you guys racing yous and does the OEM roll bar pass tech?
If not does anybody make one that I can add or would it need to be something custom?

I've never seen a roadster in a race, in any car for that matter. People buy it strictly for the amusing drive with the top down. I've seen a roadster with a Nismo spoiler and it looked slick!

That doesn't surprise me, I don't really expect the average Z Roadster owner to be taking it to the track but that doesn't mean it can't. If they can track miatas why not a Z, there is no question which of the two is better.

But looking at some pics I see the roll bars on the Z appear to stick up further then the viper so hopefully they will be good enough, and it seems the miata didn't even come with them originally (I thought that was a federal regulation?)

I too am looking at tracking the roadster. Have not been able to get any info out of Nissan North America on whether or not the roll bars are considered roll over protection or not...

Have already done my coilovers and am looking to get sways soon.

Post up if you get an answer...

I'm trying, and let me know what you find

If your talking about racing, it'd depend on the series...I've seen a boxter spyder in a proper race but he had a full cage welded in.

If you're just taking about track days the though I don't have any official answer from nissan, I'd say absolutely those bars are functional. All you have to do is pop the top's tonneau lid and look at the substantial steel bars going into the plastic to know that they're not a joke.

The factory service manual also shows the structure when describing how to disassemble the interior.

And yes I am tracking my roadster across california this year. The only surprise that I've encountered is that some clubs require arm restraints if you plan on tracking the car with the top down

Good call looking in the roof area, mines frozen so I hadn't thought of that. I was hoping to find something in the service manual but I had just thought of it and haven't gotten home yet.

I did call Nissan though and talked to a lady who put me on hold for awhilethen came back and confidently told me "Absolutly, they are a functioning safety device" but when I asked her to send me the documentation showing that she said her supervisor told her :D

But I think I should be able to gather plenty of evidence though now if I need it

I just talked to the regional director at NASA who has apparently been working on Z's since the 70's and is very familiar with them. He says he's pretty sure he'll get me on the track one way or another but is waiting to hear back from the regional office. He didn't have any question about the roll bars or anything, said their about as strong as you could ever want... so I just pried my roof open in the snow for nothing :rofl2:

Many track day groups only allow a handful of roadsters (miatas, S2ks). You'll have to ask around on a case by case basis, but I'm sure there will be a good number that turn you away.

Well I guess I'll know next week but he seems pretty sure I'll be racing this summer

Well, it's not looking good. Apparently Nissan says the roll bar is only for side or rear impact protection :facepalm: what the **** is is a roll bar going to do in a side impact, or even a rear end collision. I guess I won't need to worry about finding a helmet then.

Isn't it a federal regulation now that convertibles have to have functional roll bars to protect the occupants encase of a rollover? Or should I just be expecting them to fold up and crush my head, at least I wouldn't have to deal with insurance then :ughdance:

If that's true someone better tell nearly every Nissan dealership out there... do a google search for

370z roadster occupant rollover protection

and see how many dealership websites list

Convertible rollover protection: fixed hoop
or
Integrated roll-over protection

Ask whoever you talked to about that... see what they say =p

I don't see any mention of the hoops in the owners manual however which is somewhat disconcerning. =/

You're right, and that is the hand I intend to play when I talk to Nissan. I don't know where the other guy got his information from but he says the car has no roll over protection and so it is not allowed on the track.
The only thing I could find on the internet was oddly worded but it said car has "Zero Lift Aerodynamics" rather then roll bars. Supposedly that is supposed to be good enough, of course we know that's BS. Besides the car has roll bars and they wouldn't have put them on if they didn't need them. That same site also made it sound like the roll bars were functional though in different parts of the article.
I've also seen pop up roll bars mentioned, but I don't know why.

Anyway I am going to try and contact Nissan again and get more detailed information, and something in writing. But they told me before the bars were functional, if they tell me now that their not, or are for side/ rear protection or any other nonsense like that then I'm calling shenanigans!

If the bars are in fact really not functional then that means we are risking our lives every time we drive it and were mislead into thinking these cars were equipped with a level of protection which is apparently only cosmetic!

I wonder how Nissan will respond to the safety card. That's my story and I'm sticking to it... Until I get fed up enough to sell the car.

In related news, the Dodge Viper is of course on the list of pre-approved raceable cars. As it should be, but the roll bars on that car are tiny, don't stick up very far at all, and don't look like they would actually offer any protection. The roll bars on the Z are much beefier and stick up well above the seat, if they don't actually work I would be surprised.

I'm sure it's just Nissan's attempt at dodging liability but their gonna have to admit to either tricking me into buying an unsafe car or commit to the fact that the roll bars do in fact offer protection and provide documentation to support that.

Well I went out with Hooked on Driving last weekend at Thunderhill and had no problems at all. A roadster on the track is a beautiful thing if you have a oil cooler... I saw 220 on the gauge on a 50 degree day with a 34 row setrab hanging off the front.

Have nismo bracing in hand and gtspec bracing on the way... we'll see if it makes a difference at Laguna in April =)

Sounds nice.

Isn't 220 a little high though, especially if it was only 50 out?

That reminds me, I might as well update this. I met with one of the Tech inspectors from EMRA who checked over my car, and said he can't let it on the track. :( But having actually LOOKED and not just assuming I am satisfied with his answer. He explained also explained why he had to say no, which of course was different then everyone else who had never even seen one, and actually made sense. His only really complaint was that the roll bar has no support in the middle, so if the car were to come down on a corner or something it could just fold up. I don't think that's very likely but I guess that just means I'll have to get my *** in gear and finish the real race car.

Having contacted two different track day companies for Watkins Glen they stated the track sets qualifications, thier qualification is a roll hoop must be taller than the helmet and if a broom stick is placed from windshield top to hoop no part touches the helmet also no deploying hoops unless locked in up position.

Well that's interesting... so the real complaint was that the car had hoops instead of a roll bar? Or that there was no diagonal crossbar *within* each hoop?

Or was it that the hoops were not supported by a bar facing towards the front or rear of the car (ie only supported in a 2d space, left-right, instead of a 3d space, left-right and front-back)?

And yes I thought 220 was pretty high given the conditions which means without an oil cooler..... =p

Well all of it really. There is a strut tower brace that goes across the car right behind the seats, as you know. It's clearly visible in the hard tops, anyway in our cars they attached the roll bar right to that but it has no support in the center. Since their two separate hoops if the car were to land on the corner or something the bar could just bend in half, obviously not doing it's job then.
The height should be fine, dependning on how tall you are of course but that's not really the issue anyway.

Hope you get it on the track soon. Would love to see a roadster at full opposite lock kicking it around a turn.

Any updates on this? I was curious to track my Roadster as well...

Short version: Go to the track you want to run on and ask. The tech inspectors there will have final say and there appears to be no set answer.

Very true. I did not have a problem with any of the clubs I went with or tracks I was out on in California.

Good to hear, which tracks do you go to?

Tracking mine with SCCA.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/26/3epupeba.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/26/nu6ymudu.jpg

Sent while driving!

Does anyone know for sure that the roll hoops even come into play if the car goes upside down? I ask because my two previous cars were Honda S2000s. When it goes upside down, it rests on the hood and the windshield frame, which, it turns out, is an integrated roll bar. I know this for a fact, having flipped my first one.

It may be that with the weight distribution, the Z would land similarly, especially since it is even more front-weighted (53/47) than the S2000 (51/49).

Might want to look into this for your region...
https://www.nasaproracing.com/

They allow 350ZR/370ZR factory hoops to qualify for tech. I will be doing HPDE-1 this summer in my region in a 2006 350ZR.

I'm glad to see somebody managed to get on the track, and congratulations on your trophy.

Once they let one on they will start letting them all. Maybe I'll come back for the 400Z then (or whatever is next)

*Did* I go to... sold the Z and switched to a DD2 Kart (So very fast!).

Thunder Hill, Buttonwillow, Laguna Seca, Infineon, Willow Springs.

Always wanted to go out to Fontana, but they don't allow convertibles without roll cages with their high banked turn.

Tracking
 

On the Drivers Edge website, 350s & 370s convertibles, are listed as approved. In my opinion, Nissan does not list anything. Because of the liability. If you open your top about half way, and open up those little curtains that cover the hoops, you can see a steel large (2") horizontal tube that goes across the car, and the steel tubes that make the hoops. All welded together.
Some tracks are more lenient than others.

With over 27 years of racing experience, there are some definitive answers and reasons behind all these questions. For true wheel-to-wheel racing, you won't find ANY racing organization (SCCA, NASA, EMRA, etc.) that will allow you on track without all safety equipment in place. That includes, at a minimum, a six-point rollcage, properly mounted race seat and six point harness. Why? That good old-fashioned American invention: LIABILITY.

Racing organizations and tracks need insurance to run their events, and insurance companies won't touch that type of liability without mitigating their risk. Same for Nissan North America, they can't say their safety systems include rollover protection because they know they could get their asses sued off by PI attorneys looking for large settlements. Strange as it sounds, liability rules many actions in racing.

So what does that leave 370Z roadster owners? Either running solo events, or some club high-performance driving events if the club allows it. Many won't because of their own liability issues. Could you modify your ZR to allow you to really race? Certainly, but the cost of modifying one would be high, and there would be drawbacks. For one, the aero disadvantage would be significant and nobody wants any of that. Next, the torsional stiffness of the resulting racecar (even with a properly engineered rollcage) would be less than a coupe and now you've got a top end and a handling problem.

Finally, and let's be honest about it, there would remain some safety issues that would remain. Lacking a steel roof, a roadster would be vulnerable to cockpit intrusion(s) in the event of a rollover. In almost every way, running a Z roadster would be a disadvantage in real racing, and believe me, I've looked at it from several angles.

I can see the ZR not being the best car to get into real racing, but I'm thinking more amateur/hobby racing...Do you see any downsides to that?

The only downsides are that--even as an amateur/hobby racing effort--a ZR would require more effort to build a proper roll bar or cage and would likely not be as safe in the event of a rollover. Moreover, it would be hacking up a perfectly good ZR to even attempt it!

If by amateur/hobby racing you mean groups like SCCA and others than yes it's fine. Best thing to do is contact the various groups and ask them if the ZR is able to participate.

Sent while driving!

As a tech inspector for SCCA road racing, I can say categorically that no, a ZR will NOT be fine. Besides a full rollcage and the rest of the mandatory safety equipment, I forgot to mention open top car drivers need arm restraints on to prevent a hand or arm getting crushed during an accident.

And yes, it is an excellent idea to contact any sanctioning body or organization well in advance of going to any event. The ZR will be fine for most solo events, which must be what RoadsterST is referring to.

Roadster for the win!!! Stillen :tup:

So how many guys with Z roadsters have done HPDE/Track Day? I've read this thread and seems like some of y'all have, but I know they wouldn't pass inspection without a good 'ol cage at the clubs around here.

In the past I ran HPDEs for Nissan Sport Magazine and there was one ZR participant. I kept a sharp eye on how he was progressing and there were no problems. But that was before the tracks tightened their safety and insurance requirements. We couldn't come up with the insurance policy required and that put a quick end to our fun.

Still, those were a great seven years and I'm happy to report no serious accidents occurred at any of our events in Colorado, NM or So Cal.