TOP Tearing issue

370z2k10 · 09-18-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_U_later

I called on Thur. and the CSR said that the top was on backorder and that since it was not a safety issue, it was low priority.

Absolutely unacceptable. Was this a dealer service advisor or a corporate Nissan CSR?

I'm subscribed.

nicknick · 09-30-2010, 11:21 PM

Sounds like Nissan needs to get on the case of Magna who allegedly make this top! I mean come on wearing out within 3 months approx, that is not good it spoils a very nice car!!

Merlin · 10-07-2010, 10:09 PM

See my post today (Oct 7, 2010). There are issues with 2010 Roadsters and the tops. Nissan isn't saying much about it for obvious reasons. They are screwing around with it. In my case, they took parts off, bent the rear hatch arm and basically devalued my car in efforts to stop the top from being rubbed every time the top is put up and down. Every time they touch it they screw it up further. And these are techs they have brought in, not dealer service people. They are going to replace the canvas top now, but I read what they did to Z_U_later’s top and that scares the crap out of me. Purchased my car in June and frankly am very disappointed. Only have 2630 miles on it. I DON'T have any patience with anyone who sells a shoddy product and knows there are problems. Nissan is doing just that. To be honest, based on Nissan North American responses thus far and what they are doing to try and fix the issue, wish I had not bought this car. I am OCD about my cars and this BS is unacceptable. Most likely I will sell this POS and cut my losses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Step'n370Z

I have been keeping an eye on this issue and have been wondering how many of us are experiencing it.

Seeing the workmanship that that place the Dealer had install the top, and of course wanting to have the whole thing paid for under warranty, if that happens to me, I will more than likely take the new top and go to the highest end place that does that kind of work and pay for the install myself. I would be more concerned about the job being done right than getting the whole thing paid for if the workmanship is sub-par.

HOWEVER, did anyone actually find the cause of the tear? If not, it will most likely tear again.

So, bought the Z in December of 2009, put it on the road in April, and so far there is no sign of trouble. (yet)

On my top, that area is smooth as can be, not even any crease's, and if I gently push in on that area, I do not feel anything underneath that is rubbing against it. However, that doesn't mean that when the top is folding up during closing that something may be rubbing against it then.

How about the rest of you Roadster owners? I'd like to see if this is a wide spread problem, or some factory installation goof up.
.
.
.

vifferman · 10-08-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

See my post today (Oct 7, 2010). There are issues with 2010 Roadsters and the tops. Nissan isn't saying much about it for obvious reasons. They are screwing around with it. In my case, they took parts off, bent the rear hatch arm and basically devalued my car in efforts to stop the top from being rubbed every time the top is put up and down. Every time they touch it they screw it up further. And these are techs they have brought in, not dealer service people. They are going to replace the canvas top now, but I read what they did to Z_U_later’s top and that scares the crap out of me. Purchased my car in June and frankly am very disappointed. Only have 2630 miles on it. I DON'T have any patience with anyone who sells a shoddy product and knows there are problems. Nissan is doing just that. To be honest, based on Nissan North American responses thus far and what they are doing to try and fix the issue, wish I had not bought this car. I am OCD about my cars and this BS is unacceptable. Most likely I will sell this POS and cut my losses.

What was your top issue, Merlin? Was it the same as Z_U's Did you have tears in the canvas; just the tell-tale indentations/creases, or what?

Merlin · 10-09-2010, 09:59 AM

The problem is the rear hatch arm on the driver’s side. Attached to that arm is a hydraulic line and a wire (for the rear window defogger I think). The wire passes thru a conduit. When the top is lowered and raised that sharp edge of that conduit digs into the canvass top and is wearing a hole in it. Rather than take the edge off the conduit, the Nissan regional tech appears to have bent the arm out and twisted it a little (and left deep, raw tool marks in the metal arm). He also wrapped black tape all around the hydraulic line and wire and remaining conduit. Can't tell what is under the tape, but suspect it ain't pretty. The arm (layered tape) still rubs the canvas when raising and lowering the top, but now in a different spot. And the arm now rubs into the rubber gasket on the edge of the area where the top drops in. He bent it out too much. It is hard to explain. They now plan to replace the canvas as the material where it was previously rubbing is now beginning to show threads and will slowly unravel. I am just shaking my head as watch them do all of this and just make it worse.

I do have slight indentations and creases on the left and right side of the top, but they are minor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vifferman

What was your top issue, Merlin? Was it the same as Z_U's Did you have tears in the canvas; just the tell-tale indentations/creases, or what?

vifferman · 10-09-2010, 05:33 PM

Well, Merlin - first, the tech's clumsy effort (deep tool marks, et al) is outrageous. I know exactly how you feel; it's like your beautiful new car has been violated and it will never be "new" again. I'm the poster boy for OCD, and I've been in a couple of similar positions with new cars. My ZR is just four months old and the odometer shows just 1,700 miles (I drive the Z only for pleasure/sport); yet the tell-tale driver's side wear spot is already quite evident, and I abhor the prospect of a top replacement and the nightmares that will likely accompany such an ordeal. That said, it appears that the diagnosis re: your "top-tearing issue" differs from that of the OP (Z_U_Later), as his diagnosis referrred to sharp edges on the 'folding assembly' and they had to cut the top fabric to see it. Frankly, your diagnosis makes far more sense to me, as my indentation, crease & discoloration clearly has to come from something rubbing on the outside of the canvas. Tomorrow, I will open the top part-way to reveal the hatch arm, and attempt to confirm the diagnosis. I'll post my findings.

Thank you for the update, Merlin and best wishes for a successful resolution. Please keep us fully posted. BTW, I too have feelings of buyer's regret, but other than the top issues, my Z is nearly flawless, and I love it, so...

Merlin · 10-10-2010, 08:07 AM

Sounds like you and I use our cars for the same purpose -- pleasure and sport. Yes, it is the driver's side that gets the wear spot. Hope your problem is easily resolved. Please do keep us posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vifferman

Well, Merlin - first, the tech's clumsy effort (deep tool marks, et al) is outrageous. I know exactly how you feel; it's like your beautiful new car has been violated and it will never be "new" again. I'm the poster boy for OCD, and I've been in a couple of similar positions with new cars. My ZR is just four months old and the odometer shows just 1,700 miles (I drive the Z only for pleasure/sport); yet the tell-tale driver's side wear spot is already quite evident, and I abhor the prospect of a top replacement and the nightmares that will likely accompany such an ordeal. That said, it appears that the diagnosis re: your "top-tearing issue" differs from that of the OP (Z_U_Later), as his diagnosis referrred to sharp edges on the 'folding assembly' and they had to cut the top fabric to see it. Frankly, your diagnosis makes far more sense to me, as my indentation, crease & discoloration clearly has to come from something rubbing on the outside of the canvas. Tomorrow, I will open the top part-way to reveal the hatch arm, and attempt to confirm the diagnosis. I'll post my findings.

Thank you for the update, Merlin and best wishes for a successful resolution. Please keep us fully posted. BTW, I too have feelings of buyer's regret, but other than the top issues, my Z is nearly flawless, and I love it, so...

vifferman · 10-11-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

Sounds like you and I use our cars for the same purpose -- pleasure and sport. Yes, it is the driver's side that gets the wear spot. Hope your problem is easily resolved. Please do keep us posted.

Well, as promised, I opened the top half way yesterday to inspect the hatch arm assemby/conduit, etc. Frankly, I can't see how that assembly could possibly be the "top-tearing" culprit, especially since there is no such assembly on the passenger side, and Z_U_Later had tears on both sides. This whole issue gets more & more frustrating (absurd), as apparently even Nissan corporate doesn't have an official position/solution. Guess I'll have another drink and think about it again tomorrow.

Hi-Step'n370Z · 10-12-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vifferman

My ZR is just four months old and the odometer shows just 1,700 miles (I drive the Z only for pleasure/sport); yet the tell-tale driver's side wear spot is already quite evident, and I abhor the prospect of a top replacement and the nightmares that will likely accompany such an ordeal.

I am curious as to how many times you operated the top during those four months.

I am trying to see if there's a commonality regarding how long it takes to rip through the canvas.

For example, one driver may only operate the top once in a while, and another driver operates it every day, but both tops showed signs of the top being torn after the " 20th time" their tops were operated.

vifferman · 10-13-2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Step'n370Z

I am curious as to how many times you operated the top during those four months.

I am trying to see if there's a commonality regarding how long it takes to rip through the canvas.

For example, one driver may only operate the top once in a while, and another driver operates it every day, but both tops showed signs of the top being torn after the " 20th time" their tops were operated.

I would estimate that in four months, I've opened/closed the top maybe 60-65 times. The wear mark/crease/indentation appeared within the first month of ownership, and has worsened moderately, but with no real sign of actual tearing or perforation yet.

Merlin · 10-13-2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vifferman

I would estimate that in four months, I've opened/closed the top maybe 60-65 times. The wear mark/crease/indentation appeared within the first month of ownership, and has worsened moderately, but with no real sign of actual tearing or perforation yet.

I've probably open/closed my top something close to that amount (60-70 times) and the primary damage was the continued rubbing at one spot on the drivers side. If left alone, it would have eventually worn a whole in the top. The adjustment/alteration to the hatch arm on the driver's side that the Nissan regional tech made has corrected the rubbing in that spot. There is still a wear mark there that will always be there. It is yet to be seen if it has solved the problem entirely.

Hi-Step'n370Z · 10-13-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vifferman

I would estimate that in four months, I've opened/closed the top maybe 60-65 times.

The wear mark/crease/indentation appeared within the first month of ownership, and has worsened moderately, but with no real sign of actual tearing or perforation yet.

So, the wear mark appeared within the first month. To me, that is a very important factor, and suggests that in the Z's with the confirmed tear issue, there was something done during the assembly to those Z's that was not done to the Z's that haven't torn. (yet)

Vifferman and Merlin have operated their tops about the same number of times, but Vifferman explained that the problem actually began to show as soon as the first month of operation, which averages out to be around 16 operations per month, so the last 45 or so operations were done after the problem actually began. It was that first month, or first 16 operations that told the tale of what was to come.

Because of these two time frame breakdown's, it seems that IF one is going to have a problem, it should show up sooner rather than later.

Vifferman's showed up within one month, or within 16-is operations.

Merlin, does this time frame apply to your tear also?

If so, then maybe we can narrow down the average Roadster's expectancy of having a top tear issue. Meaning that IF the top has been operated over 16 times or as much as say 40 times, and there's no sign of a tear, then there is the possibility that the top may escape being one of those that will eventually have the tear.

This may be like the engine oil burning issue, some had it, but most did not.
.

.

Zaggeron · 10-14-2010, 12:29 AM

I have a crease/indentation on the driver's side in the place people have described. And to a lesser extent on the passenger side. It's kinda noticeable because it tends to attract dust and dirt. Now I've had my Z about 10 months now and probably open and close the top around 4 times a week. So let's say I've opened/closed it between 150 and 175 times since I've owned the car. I really didn't notice anything until around 4 months of ownership and at that time I thought ...simply a crease that attracts dirt. I've not convinced it is still not just that, but I haven't been able to confirm that since I can't fit my hand inside the area between the top and the frame in that area ... I've tried various intermediate positions of top up and down.

If I can confirm there is no premature wear on the inside, I'd be satisfied and chalk it up to just a crease. Can someone post a pic of the correct position of the top in a semi down position that gives best access to the area? I need to find out yea or nea whether there is wear on the inside.

Merlin · 10-14-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Step'n370Z

So, the wear mark appeared within the first month. To me, that is a very important factor, and suggests that in the Z's with the confirmed tear issue, there was something done during the assembly to those Z's that was not done to the Z's that haven't torn. (yet)

Vifferman and Merlin have operated their tops about the same number of times, but Vifferman explained that the problem actually began to show as soon as the first month of operation, which averages out to be around 16 operations per month, so the last 45 or so operations were done after the problem actually began. It was that first month, or first 16 operations that told the tale of what was to come.

Because of these two time frame breakdown's, it seems that IF one is going to have a problem, it should show up sooner rather than later.

Vifferman's showed up within one month, or within 16-is operations.

Merlin, does this time frame apply to your tear also?

If so, then maybe we can narrow down the average Roadster's expectancy of having a top tear issue. Meaning that IF the top has been operated over 16 times or as much as say 40 times, and there's no sign of a tear, then there is the possibility that the top may escape being one of those that will eventually have the tear.

This may be like the engine oil burning issue, some had it, but most did not.
.

.

I noticed the wearing on the top within the first week of owning the car. I had put the roof up and down probably 10-15 times (maybe more). The canvass was fuzzed up on the exterior of driver's side. Eventually discovered it was being caused by a piece on the hatch arm rubbing the top when it was put and put down. I removed the fuzz and saw the same fuzz again within about a week and that is when I knew there was a problem. Took it to dealer and they got a tech there in about three weeks. During that time I really limited the number of times I raised and lowered the top. My thoughts are that IF there is going to be a wearing issue because of some sort of rubbing due to mechanical issues/poor fit/poor construction, etc., it is likely to show up early. So yes, it will appear within the first dozen or so operations. This is not a tearing issue nor is it what I would consider normal wear and tear. Now that the tech re-ran wires and removed the conduit that was on that arm, the rubbing has stopped. They still want to replace the top for cosmetic issues.

vifferman · 10-17-2010, 06:25 PM

Top-wear/tear victims ~

While my issue is still relatively minor, I'm not at all happy with the cosmetics of the wear mark/indentation/crease, and I clearly want to avoid Z_U_Later's top replacement nightmare. I'm also suspicious of the varied disagnoses & fixes...is it sharp edges on the folding assembly (per Z_U) or is it the hatch arm wires/conduit (per Merlin)? Or...are these two different issues? Regardless, it's time for Nissan to fess up and give us some answers (the roadster has now been in production for a full calendar year). Accordingly, I sent this message to Nissan USA...

As you must know, there are significant "issues" with the 370Z Roadster's soft top (see owners' reports at http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-roadster-convertible/20621-top-tearing-issue.html). I had a wear mark/indentation/crease on the driver's side within the first few weeks of ownership, and based on other owners' reports of such wear resulting in perforation of the canvas, I'm quite concerned (at best, it's an unacceptable cosmetic flaw on my $48,000 roadster). My dealer knew little about the issue, and other owners report varying responses/diagnoses from NissanUSA. When can we expect an official acknowlegement/response & a proper fix from Nissan?

10-14-2010, 12:29 AM	#73 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 18	I have a crease/indentation on the driver's side in the place people have described. And to a lesser extent on the passenger side. It's kinda noticeable because it tends to attract dust and dirt. Now I've had my Z about 10 months now and probably open and close the top around 4 times a week. So let's say I've opened/closed it between 150 and 175 times since I've owned the car. I really didn't notice anything until around 4 months of ownership and at that time I thought ...simply a crease that attracts dirt. I've not convinced it is still not just that, but I haven't been able to confirm that since I can't fit my hand inside the area between the top and the frame in that area ... I've tried various intermediate positions of top up and down. If I can confirm there is no premature wear on the inside, I'd be satisfied and chalk it up to just a crease. Can someone post a pic of the correct position of the top in a semi down position that gives best access to the area? I need to find out yea or nea whether there is wear on the inside. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

10-17-2010, 06:25 PM	#75 (permalink)
vifferman Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 62 Drives: '04 TSX, '10 370ZR Rep Power: 16	Message to NissanUSA Top-wear/tear victims ~ While my issue is still relatively minor, I'm not at all happy with the cosmetics of the wear mark/indentation/crease, and I clearly want to avoid Z_U_Later's top replacement nightmare. I'm also suspicious of the varied disagnoses & fixes...is it sharp edges on the folding assembly (per Z_U) or is it the hatch arm wires/conduit (per Merlin)? Or...are these two different issues? Regardless, it's time for Nissan to fess up and give us some answers (the roadster has now been in production for a full calendar year). Accordingly, I sent this message to Nissan USA... As you must know, there are significant "issues" with the 370Z Roadster's soft top (see owners' reports at http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-roadster-convertible/20621-top-tearing-issue.html). I had a wear mark/indentation/crease on the driver's side within the first few weeks of ownership, and based on other owners' reports of such wear resulting in perforation of the canvas, I'm quite concerned (at best, it's an unacceptable cosmetic flaw on my $48,000 roadster). My dealer knew little about the issue, and other owners report varying responses/diagnoses from NissanUSA. When can we expect an official acknowlegement/response & a proper fix from Nissan?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
CD issue	37Z	Audio & Video	14	03-16-2010 05:25 PM
2nd Gear Issue... Need Help	JJ-NISMO	Engine & Drivetrain	5	03-16-2010 12:24 PM
First issue with the Z.	Snakes709	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	14	12-25-2009 10:37 PM
Anyone having an Issue with the Sat Nav?	joe370z	Australia/New Zealand	9	09-01-2009 08:55 AM
Another look at possible oil issue...	ZKindaGuy	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	11	08-18-2009 01:25 AM

09-30-2010, 11:21 PM	#62 (permalink)
nicknick Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 438 Drives: Mazda mx5 2007 6sp m Rep Power: 16	Sounds like Nissan needs to get on the case of Magna who allegedly make this top! I mean come on wearing out within 3 months approx, that is not good it spoils a very nice car!!

10-09-2010, 05:33 PM	#66 (permalink)
vifferman Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 62 Drives: '04 TSX, '10 370ZR Rep Power: 16	Well, Merlin - first, the tech's clumsy effort (deep tool marks, et al) is outrageous. I know exactly how you feel; it's like your beautiful new car has been violated and it will never be "new" again. I'm the poster boy for OCD, and I've been in a couple of similar positions with new cars. My ZR is just four months old and the odometer shows just 1,700 miles (I drive the Z only for pleasure/sport); yet the tell-tale driver's side wear spot is already quite evident, and I abhor the prospect of a top replacement and the nightmares that will likely accompany such an ordeal. That said, it appears that the diagnosis re: your "top-tearing issue" differs from that of the OP (Z_U_Later), as his diagnosis referrred to sharp edges on the 'folding assembly' and they had to cut the top fabric to see it. Frankly, your diagnosis makes far more sense to me, as my indentation, crease & discoloration clearly has to come from something rubbing on the outside of the canvas. Tomorrow, I will open the top part-way to reveal the hatch arm, and attempt to confirm the diagnosis. I'll post my findings. Thank you for the update, Merlin and best wishes for a successful resolution. Please keep us fully posted. BTW, I too have feelings of buyer's regret, but other than the top issues, my Z is nearly flawless, and I love it, so...