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I have been keeping an eye on this issue and have been wondering how many of us are experiencing it.
Seeing the workmanship that that place the Dealer had install the top, and of course wanting to have the whole thing paid for under warranty, if that happens to me, I will more than likely take the new top and go to the highest end place that does that kind of work and pay for the install myself. I would be more concerned about the job being done right than getting the whole thing paid for if the workmanship is sub-par. HOWEVER, did anyone actually find the cause of the tear? If not, it will most likely tear again. So, bought the Z in December of 2009, put it on the road in April, and so far there is no sign of trouble. (yet) On my top, that area is smooth as can be, not even any crease's, and if I gently push in on that area, I do not feel anything underneath that is rubbing against it. However, that doesn't mean that when the top is folding up during closing that something may be rubbing against it then. How about the rest of you Roadster owners? I'd like to see if this is a wide spread problem, or some factory installation goof up. . . . |
I got one of the first ones back in November, so far I see no problem areas.
I'm very OCD (or so Mr. Lou says) and I would notice anything on my car.. Hopefully it stays like this, if I see a problem I will let y'all know.. Hope everyone gets theirs solved though :) |
I just wanted to give everyone an update on my issue. I got my car back and they repaired the molding on the passenger side and it looks fine now. However the center front of the top still has a 4 inch long loose area. The service rep told me that she was told buy the repair person that it should work itself out once I put the roof up and down a few time and if it doesn't to bring it back in and she will contact Nissan for another repair authorization. It has been a few weeks now and the fabric is still loose in the center after lowering and raising the roof several times. So I will have to take it back. Now this is really pissing me off, this is my first Nissan, first Z, and first convertible and I have to say I'm very disappointed. Not to say that Im not happy with everything else with the car but this top issue has soured the my experience with Nissan.
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I have been driving my '10 Z since April and I drop the top two to three times a week on average, and no sign of any wear so far. |
I drive mine maybe three times a week. Always with the top down -- so it gets opened and closed maybe 6 times a week. There is definitely a wrinkle there, but after using some top cleaner on the area it doesn't look distressed. I think the wrinkle/crease that occurs in that area might have a tendency to collect dirt and make it look worse than it is. I felt around as well as I could on the inside area there and couldn't feel any scraping or wear on the inside of the canvas there so I think I don't have the problem that Z_U had. I'll keep an eye on it still.
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I've only had mine about three and a half months. The top was down almost all the time for the first couple months, but now it's up and down a lot. There are no signs for damage at all yet. It's disgusting that people are having problems like this with their tops already. I've had four previous roadsters of various kinds, a couple for around 100,000 miles, and none wore holes through their tops. Maybe I was just lucky.
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I took delivery of my roadster on June 7, and have opened/closed the top about 5 of every 6 days since. I have a small 3/8 inch crease & some discoloration on the driver's side only, but in the same location as Z-U-Later's problem. I can feel two small nodules, about 5/8 inch apart on both sides (cable ties, perhaps?) in the suspect area. If it weren't for Z-U's nightmare experience, I wouldn't be overly concerned, but now I'm a bit paranoid.
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Creases and wrinkles I can deal with -- I expect to get wear lines and so forth that outline the frame. I think that particular spot we are seeing, because of the way it creases, is collecting dirt. Z_U's problem was definitely the result of something rubbing a hole through the fabric. It may be that you can get the crease, and not have the same problem -- at least I'm hoping that's the case. |
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Top Tearing issue revisited
You may recall my earlier posts to this thread. Haven't heard anything of late, and wondered how Z-U-Later and others who reported early signs of his issue are faring. Z-U...did they ever fully resolve your new top installation issues (i.e. the loose front)? Others with indentations/creases/discoloration in the area of Z-U-Later's perforation...any further deterioration, etc.?
I still have a 3/8-inch crease and a small (1/8") indentation (pinch?) on the driver's side. More wrinkles, but no crease or indentation on the passenger side. The driver's side canvas is a bit more taut which may explain both the crease/indentation and the fewer wrinkles. I will likely visit my dealer for the "free" first service (biting my nails), audio system recall/upgrade, and to discuss the top issue sometime in late September or early October. Because I drive my ZR only recreationally (just 1100 miles in less than 3 months), I fear that the top issue may progress slowly only to leave me with the cost of replacement after expiration of the warranty. Anone know...is the top covered under the general 3-year warranty, or is it subject to the 1-year "exterior trim" exclusion? I've read that warranty twice, and it's still not clear to me. Sorry for the long-winded post, but it's my new love we're talking about here. Hee! |
I've had the car for three weeks and I am seeing some fabric fatigue exactly where described by the OP. I will post some pics. I am very worried.
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Continuing top issues
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Is it wearing from the inside or outside?
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Z_U_Later - please keep us fully posted re: the Nissan rep's findings, et al. Hope your nightmare ends well, and soon.
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The first good news is that your problem will be taken care of under warranty. Glad to hear it Man. The second good news is that now Nissan clearly knows about the problem and will correct that error in future production, and will cover the repair under warranty for the rest of the Roadster owners. The $13,000.00 price tag seems high, that's 1/3 the total cost of the whole car! IF a tear happens after warranty, there is a chance Nissan will still cover the repair because they know of the "two sharp edges," or, if we have to repair it at our expense, those edges could possibly be filed down/otherwise rendered harmless, leaving only the cost of the fabric and installation. Too bad you didn't get the chance to take some pic's of those edges, maybe when they do the repair, you can take some pic's of those edges and post them here on the Forum so we all can see just what the heck is going on under the canvas. I know I'd appreciate it. Thanks for posting the final diagnosis, and I am glad that your problem will soon be over with. I don't think that once the top is fixed you'll have any further tears because the reason for the tear will have been corrected. You should be able to operate the top worry free from now on. Besides, this IS a warranty repair, and if it happens again, they should still cover the next fix. |
I'm suspect here. If this issue applied only to an early production run, I might accept the "sharp edges" diagnosis; but in fact, both early and late editions of the roadster seem to exihibit the problem equally; and some report no problem at all. My example (just 4 months old, with moderate top down/up usage) shows a noticable "pinch/indentation" but no sign of tearing. I will visit my dealer soon for the iPhone update, and inspection of the top issue. Will advise.
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Yes, I agree, this whole issue is very weird to say the least, and frankly I feel it's useless to guess and speculate, which I am plenty guilty of doing. It would be great if we could get an accurate number regarding who has the tears, and when their Z was made and the average times the top was operated over how many months. If there's a manufacturing glitch that caused this, I wouldn't think that we have to operate the top a thousand times to find out whether or not we will have this tearing issue. Seems like operating the top a couple of times a week for at least three months would either create the tear, indicate that it's starting, or indicate that it is probably not going to happen at all. My Z was made in July of 2009, took delivery December 2009. Began driving it April 2010. Top operated around two times a week over the last 5 months. At present time: No tear, creasing or indication of any problem at all. The top looks just like brand new. |
I definitely have a crease there -- and to a lesser extent on the passenger side in the same area. I did reach between the frame and the top in the area as best as I could and couldn't feel any evidence that it was wearing from the inside -- but it was a tight fit with my fingers and I couldn't be 100% sure. I think that, for some of us, that area is just a crease that tends to collect dust and dirt and make it appear that it is wearing, but if there is no wear on the inside, I doubt it will become a problem.
I'd like to know for sure. Is there a particular position between top up and down with access to that spot so I could verify there is no wear on the inside? |
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I'm subscribed. |
Sounds like Nissan needs to get on the case of Magna who allegedly make this top! I mean come on wearing out within 3 months approx, that is not good it spoils a very nice car!!
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See my post today (Oct 7, 2010). There are issues with 2010 Roadsters and the tops. Nissan isn't saying much about it for obvious reasons. They are screwing around with it. In my case, they took parts off, bent the rear hatch arm and basically devalued my car in efforts to stop the top from being rubbed every time the top is put up and down. Every time they touch it they screw it up further. And these are techs they have brought in, not dealer service people. They are going to replace the canvas top now, but I read what they did to Z_U_later’s top and that scares the crap out of me. Purchased my car in June and frankly am very disappointed. Only have 2630 miles on it. I DON'T have any patience with anyone who sells a shoddy product and knows there are problems. Nissan is doing just that. To be honest, based on Nissan North American responses thus far and what they are doing to try and fix the issue, wish I had not bought this car. I am OCD about my cars and this BS is unacceptable. Most likely I will sell this POS and cut my losses.
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The problem is the rear hatch arm on the driver’s side. Attached to that arm is a hydraulic line and a wire (for the rear window defogger I think). The wire passes thru a conduit. When the top is lowered and raised that sharp edge of that conduit digs into the canvass top and is wearing a hole in it. Rather than take the edge off the conduit, the Nissan regional tech appears to have bent the arm out and twisted it a little (and left deep, raw tool marks in the metal arm). He also wrapped black tape all around the hydraulic line and wire and remaining conduit. Can't tell what is under the tape, but suspect it ain't pretty. The arm (layered tape) still rubs the canvas when raising and lowering the top, but now in a different spot. And the arm now rubs into the rubber gasket on the edge of the area where the top drops in. He bent it out too much. It is hard to explain. They now plan to replace the canvas as the material where it was previously rubbing is now beginning to show threads and will slowly unravel. I am just shaking my head as watch them do all of this and just make it worse. :shakes head: I do have slight indentations and creases on the left and right side of the top, but they are minor.
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Well, Merlin - first, the tech's clumsy effort (deep tool marks, et al) is outrageous. I know exactly how you feel; it's like your beautiful new car has been violated and it will never be "new" again. I'm the poster boy for OCD, and I've been in a couple of similar positions with new cars. My ZR is just four months old and the odometer shows just 1,700 miles (I drive the Z only for pleasure/sport); yet the tell-tale driver's side wear spot is already quite evident, and I abhor the prospect of a top replacement and the nightmares that will likely accompany such an ordeal. That said, it appears that the diagnosis re: your "top-tearing issue" differs from that of the OP (Z_U_Later), as his diagnosis referrred to sharp edges on the 'folding assembly' and they had to cut the top fabric to see it. Frankly, your diagnosis makes far more sense to me, as my indentation, crease & discoloration clearly has to come from something rubbing on the outside of the canvas. Tomorrow, I will open the top part-way to reveal the hatch arm, and attempt to confirm the diagnosis. I'll post my findings.
Thank you for the update, Merlin and best wishes for a successful resolution. Please keep us fully posted. BTW, I too have feelings of buyer's regret, but other than the top issues, my Z is nearly flawless, and I love it, so... |
Sounds like you and I use our cars for the same purpose -- pleasure and sport. Yes, it is the driver's side that gets the wear spot. Hope your problem is easily resolved. Please do keep us posted.
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I am trying to see if there's a commonality regarding how long it takes to rip through the canvas. For example, one driver may only operate the top once in a while, and another driver operates it every day, but both tops showed signs of the top being torn after the " 20th time" their tops were operated. |
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So, the wear mark appeared within the first month. To me, that is a very important factor, and suggests that in the Z's with the confirmed tear issue, there was something done during the assembly to those Z's that was not done to the Z's that haven't torn. (yet) Vifferman and Merlin have operated their tops about the same number of times, but Vifferman explained that the problem actually began to show as soon as the first month of operation, which averages out to be around 16 operations per month, so the last 45 or so operations were done after the problem actually began. It was that first month, or first 16 operations that told the tale of what was to come. Because of these two time frame breakdown's, it seems that IF one is going to have a problem, it should show up sooner rather than later. Vifferman's showed up within one month, or within 16-is operations. Merlin, does this time frame apply to your tear also? If so, then maybe we can narrow down the average Roadster's expectancy of having a top tear issue. Meaning that IF the top has been operated over 16 times or as much as say 40 times, and there's no sign of a tear, then there is the possibility that the top may escape being one of those that will eventually have the tear. This may be like the engine oil burning issue, some had it, but most did not. . . |
I have a crease/indentation on the driver's side in the place people have described. And to a lesser extent on the passenger side. It's kinda noticeable because it tends to attract dust and dirt. Now I've had my Z about 10 months now and probably open and close the top around 4 times a week. So let's say I've opened/closed it between 150 and 175 times since I've owned the car. I really didn't notice anything until around 4 months of ownership and at that time I thought ...simply a crease that attracts dirt. I've not convinced it is still not just that, but I haven't been able to confirm that since I can't fit my hand inside the area between the top and the frame in that area ... I've tried various intermediate positions of top up and down.
If I can confirm there is no premature wear on the inside, I'd be satisfied and chalk it up to just a crease. Can someone post a pic of the correct position of the top in a semi down position that gives best access to the area? I need to find out yea or nea whether there is wear on the inside. |
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Message to NissanUSA
Top-wear/tear victims ~
While my issue is still relatively minor, I'm not at all happy with the cosmetics of the wear mark/indentation/crease, and I clearly want to avoid Z_U_Later's top replacement nightmare. I'm also suspicious of the varied disagnoses & fixes...is it sharp edges on the folding assembly (per Z_U) or is it the hatch arm wires/conduit (per Merlin)? Or...are these two different issues? Regardless, it's time for Nissan to fess up and give us some answers (the roadster has now been in production for a full calendar year). Accordingly, I sent this message to Nissan USA... As you must know, there are significant "issues" with the 370Z Roadster's soft top (see owners' reports at http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-roadster-convertible/20621-top-tearing-issue.html). I had a wear mark/indentation/crease on the driver's side within the first few weeks of ownership, and based on other owners' reports of such wear resulting in perforation of the canvas, I'm quite concerned (at best, it's an unacceptable cosmetic flaw on my $48,000 roadster). My dealer knew little about the issue, and other owners report varying responses/diagnoses from NissanUSA. When can we expect an official acknowlegement/response & a proper fix from Nissan? |
It will be interesting to hear the response...
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This is something that needs to be addressed to Nissan, this is not a minimal little glitch. The top is everything regarding the appearance - and resale value of the whole car. I have had absolutely no problem with my top in any way, but I did have the thought that the issue needed to be addressed regardless. For those who have experienced this issue, it is has to be devastating. And to the rest of us, we just wait and wonder if it will happen to our Roadster. Depending on the response you receive from Nissan, perhaps more of us should follow your lead, and encourage Nissan to give the matter the level of priority it deserves. I would also like to know if this is an occasional problem, or if they all were manufactured with the same glitch that will eventually ruin the canvas on all the Z's. If so, there should be some kind of piece of mind life time warranty on the 2010's for this specific problem. I don't want anyone to forget the problems that some have experienced with the installation of their new top because, it was not installed to look like a factory install, and were told that the fit will "wear in." If my new Roadster was delivered to me, with the top looking like the one that was pictured on this Forum after it was replaced, I would not have accepted the car with it looking like that. If anyone needs to have a top replaced, their Z should not be delivered back to the owner looking any less than factory. Once again vifferman, I commend you for pursuing this with Nissan. Of course, keep us posted. . . |
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So at this point they have re-routed the wiring harness that is attached to the driver's side hatch arm and made it look like it was done this way at the factory. At least the tech tried. This has stopped the rubbing on the canvas. Now they are going to give me a new canvas top. A Nissan regional tech is going to do the replacement and I have met and talked to him. He seems very qualified and has done this before (but not on a 370Z). The canvas replacement makes me very nervous. I do NOT want to have the issues that Z_U-later had with the new canvas. I have already contacted a consumer lawyer and am in a wait-and-see mode. If the top is replaced and it looks factory installed, I will be happy and that should be the end of this issue. If it is not and this saga continues, I am going to engage on legal fronts. Like most of you, I have a job and don't have the time to keep screwing with this stuff. And we all deserve better from Nissan and the car they are selling. Stand by for more. |
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October 20, 2010 File # 6962899 Dear Andrew Bertsch: Thank you for contacting Nissan North America, Inc. and allowing us the opportunity to be of assistance. We are sorry to hear about the experience you are having with your Z Roadster and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Please contact your local Nissan dealer and schedule an appointment, as the dealer is in the best position to diagnose and repair your vehicle. Your Nissan dealer will be more than willing to assist. File #6962899 has been created to document your concern. If you have any further questions, comments or are unsatisfied with your dealer experience, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-647-7261. Your satisfaction with your vehicle and your Nissan dealer is very important to us. Thank you for allowing us to be of assistance. Sincerely, Nissan North America, Inc. Vivian Gonzalez Consumer Affairs Representative Nissan Consumer Affairs |
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