Dealer Wont Deal???

FricFrac · 08-13-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-TecDesigns

Barely any difference? The difference is nearly $2k for the base and $2.5k for the touring. Tack on another $400 difference if you want the sport package. Decreasing the cost of a car by 8% seems worth the fight, don't you? Well, maybe not you, as you already said MSRP would have been fine.

...blah blah blah.....

It cost them a few hours of paperwork, improved their business standing, and made them a tidy profit...

OK markup on my car is about $3,400. My friend bought an '09 Mustang convertable and got $13,000 off of sticker. Both cars are around $40K. My point is where the American cars have a crazy mark up - the Z doesn't.

I'm just as eager to get the best price I can and I did my homework and negotiated. That's why I got $800 off instead of paying MSRP. Not sure if you know anything about running a business but making $2500 on a car is jack not a tidy profit. Add to it the cost of keeping a dealership open - staff, rent, utilities, insurance, etc, etc, etc.

alvinmathew88 · 08-13-2009, 03:18 PM

Wow way to thread jack guys....

I think yal should make a section in this forum, for discussing how Dealerships should/do profit or run their business. Besides that i think yal should take this discussion elsewhere... even though i find your discussion very interesting...

edeeZee · 08-13-2009, 03:19 PM

It's OK Hitech, no offense taken. But it's humorous to see the time and toil you took to write out your superfluous post. Is that you Davidyan? I didn't know vindication and having thin skin is the way you demonstrated not being able to handle another's disagreement. You think extraneous fluff is validating?

Anyhows, I don't use "hearsay" to explain my points. I was in the car biz from '99-'02. You never mentioned whether you had direct experience, or if you read a lot of "how to negotiate a new car" tactic from outside sources. 1% per month to floor could've been likely during that era. The economy wasn't in shambles like today, and interest rates (controlled by the Feds) were probably a lot higher. Thus 12% a year then was probable.

The $400K/month figure was casually given to me by my friend. It doesn't imply that it is a detailed figure EVERY MONTH, it was ballpark instead. Seriously, are you the auditor for this dealer? Then how do you know. How many VW's, Hyundai's or Lincolns did we move. The profit margins on all 3 brands vary. FYI, we moved primarily VW Jettas and Passats; Jettas had less then $1,500 profit typically, and Passats had around $1,700 on average. And you know what? We blew every unit out at invoice because VW's don't pull like crazy. This store was good, they paid the salesman $200 flats because if it was 20% after $500 pack, then they couldn't retain sales people.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with negotiating a deal. But trying to take all the meat off the bone is going to lead to dealer kicking you out. We live in a capitalistic society, if you don't like the deal, then you got the freedom to walk out, you're not under duress.

BTW, I don't tip waiters nor waitresses who cop an attitude. I literally pay the bill and don't leave no change.

Hi-TecDesigns · 08-13-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

I'm just as eager to get the best price I can and I did my homework and negotiated. That's why I got $800 off instead of paying MSRP. Not sure if you know anything about running a business but making $2500 on a car is jack not a tidy profit. Add to it the cost of keeping a dealership open - staff, rent, utilities, insurance, etc, etc, etc.

Considering I've been running my own business for over 7 years, I'd say I have a decent grasp. When you consider almost every dealer within 150 miles of me (D.C/Baltimore area) is willing to accept at (or near) invoice (and still make around $1k in profit in doing so), making an additional $2500 over invoice with MSRP is a tidy profit, IMO... but your definition of "tidy" appears to be different. If your idea of a good deal is $1,300 over invoice, cheers to you, but it's not the best deal you could have gotten with hardly any extra work on your part by a long shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

It's OK Hitech, no offense taken. But it's humorous to see the time and toil you took to write out your superfluous post. Is that you Davidyan? I didn't know vindication and having thin skin is the way you demonstrated not being able to handle another's disagreement. You think extraneous fluff is validating?

Anyhows, I don't use "hearsay" to explain my points. I was in the car biz from '99-'02. You never mentioned whether you had direct experience, or if you read a lot of "how to negotiate a new car" tactic from outside sources. 1% per month to floor could've been likely during that era. The economy wasn't in shambles like today, and interest rates (controlled by the Feds) were probably a lot higher. Thus 12% a year then was probable.

The $400K/month figure was casually given to me by my friend. It doesn't imply that it is a detailed figure EVERY MONTH, it was ballpark instead. Seriously, are you the auditor for this dealer? Then how do you know. How many VW's, Hyundai's or Lincolns did we move. The profit margins on all 3 brands vary. FYI, we moved primarily VW Jettas and Passats; Jettas had less then $1,500 profit typically, and Passats had around $1,700 on average. And you know what? We blew every unit out at invoice because VW's don't pull like crazy. This store was good, they paid the salesman $200 flats because if it was 20% after $500 pack, then they couldn't retain sales people.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with negotiating a deal. But trying to take all the meat off the bone is going to lead to dealer kicking you out. We live in a capitalistic society, if you don't like the deal, then you got the freedom to walk out, you're not under duress.

BTW, I don't tip waiters nor waitresses who cop an attitude. I literally pay the bill and don't leave no change.

EDIT: Okay, I went back and read this reply before posting and it read aloud as being very harsh... definitely not my intention, so I've tried to modify it appropriately.

<chuckle> Sorry, not DavidYan, though I do believe he posted in one of my first threads here. You have written several long posts extolling the virtue of your beliefs, but when someone disagrees with you in a similarly long post it's superfluous? How am I displaying a thin skin? How is what I said extraneous (other than trying to make my point using a comparison about the waiter)? Or were all of those comments meant towards me only if I was DavidYan in disguise?

You stated numbers, and I stated numbers. The difference between what you and I posted is mine was based upon real-world figures, not what a friend told me as an off-the-cuff figure. Take two minutes to come up with some way, any way, you think a small dealership can use $400k/month... once you're done with that, explain how you came up with those numbers. No, I'm not the auditor, but common sense tells me those numbers don't add up, and I explained my reasoning why. The simple questions is, do you know many small dealerships that sell 7+ cars a day at MSRP? If so, then I would love to invest in them (and possibly steal away some of their sales team as they're GOOD). I will certainly admit that a 1%/month figure may have been possible in years past when rates skyrocketed, but I was speaking of the here and now where anything over 6%/yr would be a bad deal... Lou has already stepped in and admitted to a 5.5%, so we were both a bit off.

I worked in a bakery for a year, doesn't make me a pastry chef (though I do make a mean Napoleon)... you worked at a dealership for a few years, doesn't mean you understand where the money comes from or goes to (though you certainly may and just have a difficult time putting it into words). The "direct" experience I have is determining what a product costs the reseller, giving me useful information on what kind of margins I have to work with in making a deal... I don't have to read anything special on the net to understand that concept, I do it every day as part of my business. Sure, it helps to read some of those articles to learn the lingo and know where the money might be hidden, but I don't base my information just on Google, I also apply a healthy dose of common sense.

I'd say we would agree to disagree and leave it at that. I'm not suggesting everyone gouge the dealer for everything they can and expect the dealer to survive, but any less-than-ideal profit they make from an invoice sale should be compensated by the MSRP sales people chuckle about on here. We're lucky in that we have the internet these days, and we have each other to provide useful information. And I intend to use everything I can to get the best deal possible.

Where's the beer icon so we can share one...

Scott@FontanaNissan · 08-13-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

I am not making fun of you DooDoo, but I see this all the time, and it kills me that people don't check what invoice is before they go negotiate. Then they come in ,you give them a hell of a deal and people throw out a stupid number. Then you ask where did you come up with this and people state, that's where I want to be at, with no logic behind the number, just a guess. Please go back, do you and the dealer a favor. It is a great price!

^^^ these are facts!

ZCarMan · 08-13-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooBrown

Ok, so I drive over 50 miles to a Nissan Dealership that has several Z's in their inventory. Start looking at a Blue Touring w/ sport package, and lists for $38,750. I have to fight for a test drive, however, finally get it, and love the car. They have an online discount, which bumps the price of the car down to $35,150. I also bank with USAA, so they gave me another 150 off the car (online, however, it says I can get the thing delivered the same way for 34,750). We then start talking numbers, and they give me 18,500 for the Honda Accord EX-L, fair enough in my book. This brings the grand total to my 08 Honda Accord and $16,500. I told them I was looking more in the neighborhood of 12,000 (a long shot, but might as well go with the lowest first). They don't even try to counter, and I leave. Go to a bar, have a couple of drinks, and really think about it. Give the salesman a call, and tell him I can give him my car, and 14,000 tonight, cash money. He sounds excited, and states he will give me a call in 5 minutes. 15 minutes later, he says his manager wont budge, and if I want the car, the price is 16,500. I don't know how the car sales industry works, however, if a guy comes to me willing to make a deal (the place was nearly empty today), I would atleast talk numbers with him. Criswell Nissan in Germantown, Maryland, could have had a sale today, however, because they were not willing to talk anything below the price quoted, I walked. Additionally, by stroke of sheer fate, my friend and his wife went to the same dealership today, and reported much of the same. They were completely unwilling to budge in price. Are my numbers too far fetched? I figured if we met half way, it would be a done deal, seeing as how they really weren't selling much of anything. Any help you guys may have is greatly appreciated!

The numbers you had through USAA were great. I got a similar deal on mine through USAA. I worked through the internet dealers and was able to get mine for 36120.00 included the TTL out the door. Hopefully you'll be able to go back and make the good deal that it is. Good Luck!

DooDooBrown · 08-14-2009, 07:42 PM

Ok, so here is the update..... I called the dealer back up, and asked if they had any in a different color, and he told me they had one at another dealership, and they wouldn't give it up. So I go over to the other dealership (both cars are identical) (another 55 miles), and go through the whole test drive, etc... I then pull out the papers from USAA, and the written quote that the other dealership gave me. The sales manager wasn't too happy. As it stood with the other car, it was 16,984 out the door, in addition to my trade in. They responded back saying that they wanted 18250 and my trade in. I then explained I would take to car off the lot today for 17,500 , and kindly explained (as they saw), that an identical car was sitting 50 miles away for $1216.00 less, and that car additionaly had illumanated kick plates. I explained that I was willing to pay the extra 500 to them because I would prefer to have my first choice color, however, anything over that price, and it was just not worth it. They came back with 17989, and that was "their final offer". I spoke personally to the sales manager, and explained to him my reservation, and which point he stated to me that he could go down to 17750, and after that, he would have to explain to the owner why he let a car go for so cheap. I told him 17500 was my budget, and if he chose to accept it, I would have the cash in his hand by the end of the day. He was stuck on 17750, and I told him if he wasn't willing to come down $250.00, there would be no sale. I kindly excused myself, and left the dealership. I have no idea if they will call me back, probably not, but it kinda erks me that they wouldnt go down 250 to make a sale. That to me shows that a dealer would not want to work with you down the road if something where to occur. Am I just being stupid? Another night, without a Z!

mspeasl · 08-14-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooBrown

Ok, so here is the update..... I called the dealer back up, and asked if they had any in a different color, and he told me they had one at another dealership, and they wouldn't give it up. So I go over to the other dealership (both cars are identical) (another 55 miles), and go through the whole test drive, etc... I then pull out the papers from USAA, and the written quote that the other dealership gave me. The sales manager wasn't too happy. As it stood with the other car, it was 16,984 out the door, in addition to my trade in. They responded back saying that they wanted 18250 and my trade in. I then explained I would take to car off the lot today for 17,500 , and kindly explained (as they saw), that an identical car was sitting 50 miles away for $1216.00 less, and that car additionaly had illumanated kick plates. I explained that I was willing to pay the extra 500 to them because I would prefer to have my first choice color, however, anything over that price, and it was just not worth it. They came back with 17989, and that was "their final offer". I spoke personally to the sales manager, and explained to him my reservation, and which point he stated to me that he could go down to 17750, and after that, he would have to explain to the owner why he let a car go for so cheap. I told him 17500 was my budget, and if he chose to accept it, I would have the cash in his hand by the end of the day. He was stuck on 17750, and I told him if he wasn't willing to come down $250.00, there would be no sale. I kindly excused myself, and left the dealership. I have no idea if they will call me back, probably not, but it kinda erks me that they wouldnt go down 250 to make a sale. That to me shows that a dealer would not want to work with you down the road if something where to occur. Am I just being stupid? Another night, without a Z!

Now you are willing to pay $17,500?? What happened to $16,500 at the other dealer?? You are not making much sense to me.

Scott@FontanaNissan · 08-15-2009, 02:14 AM

And this is why I don't sell cars

Its a tough business...There is so little on the table sometimes that it just doesn't make sense for the dealer to let it go a certain amount. The last thing they want to see is you walk out the door without your new car, but it has to make sense from a business standpoint as well!

I'd say your best deal was at the first dealership...hopefully they haven't sold it already. I used to work in real estate and I can't tell you how many times I gave people a great deal on a new home...they decided to think about it (shop around for a bigger better deal) and by the time they came back it was sold. Then they'd get upset with me cuz it wasn't available anymore!

DooDooBrown · 08-15-2009, 08:37 AM

Yes, they do have the other car at the dealership still, and they are still trying to locate me one in graphite. I was willing to pay the extra cash because the other dealership had the Z that had everything that I wanted on the car. It does surprise me that they wouldn't budge $250.00, and that one dealership can offer me the same exact car for nearly $1,000 less. Who knows, I am waiting from a call at the dealership saying they are willing to come down $250.00!

Additionally, the first dealership I went to has 3 other cars to chose from in that price, but none are in the color I want...

Pheonix · 08-15-2009, 12:55 PM

No offense, but it doesn't make much sense...if your trying to coerce them by using the threat that the other dealership is willing to sell at almost $1k below what they're offering, but your waiting on this dealership to call you back with another $250.00 reduction, and they haven't yet? They're not going to, they will assume you went to the other place and got your vehicle nearly a thousand dollars cheaper.

It sounds to me like you've gotten two really great deals, and you've rejected them both over what amounts to a pittance. If you really wanted the Z that badly, you've had dealt by now. If you really want that car, its time to quit playing the victim, and start playing the consumer.

theART · 08-16-2009, 09:31 PM

sounds like you've already spent $250 by driving over 200 miles and wasting ur time.

mspeasl · 08-16-2009, 10:36 PM

Gang,

After re-reading this thread I am beginning to think that we may be getting played. Just my thoughts. If I am wrong I apologize. But things just don't add up in my mind.

08-15-2009, 02:14 AM	#39 (permalink)
Scott@FontanaNissan Supporting Nissan Dealer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fontucky, CA Posts: 857 Drives: 91 Sentra GTi-R Rep Power: 26	And this is why I don't sell cars Its a tough business...There is so little on the table sometimes that it just doesn't make sense for the dealer to let it go a certain amount. The last thing they want to see is you walk out the door without your new car, but it has to make sense from a business standpoint as well! I'd say your best deal was at the first dealership...hopefully they haven't sold it already. I used to work in real estate and I can't tell you how many times I gave people a great deal on a new home...they decided to think about it (shop around for a bigger better deal) and by the time they came back it was sold. Then they'd get upset with me cuz it wasn't available anymore! __________________ Scott VanderHeide - Motorsports Director - Fontana Nissan/NissanRaceShop www.nissanraceshop.com www.youtube.com/scottvanderheide

08-15-2009, 08:37 AM	#40 (permalink)
DooDooBrown Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ranson, WV Posts: 178 Drives: 09 370 Touring w/spt Rep Power: 16	Yes, they do have the other car at the dealership still, and they are still trying to locate me one in graphite. I was willing to pay the extra cash because the other dealership had the Z that had everything that I wanted on the car. It does surprise me that they wouldn't budge $250.00, and that one dealership can offer me the same exact car for nearly $1,000 less. Who knows, I am waiting from a call at the dealership saying they are willing to come down $250.00! Additionally, the first dealership I went to has 3 other cars to chose from in that price, but none are in the color I want... Last edited by DooDooBrown; 08-15-2009 at 08:43 AM.

08-15-2009, 12:55 PM	#41 (permalink)
Pheonix Track Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Memphis Posts: 626 Drives: Black 370 6MT Rep Power: 17	No offense, but it doesn't make much sense...if your trying to coerce them by using the threat that the other dealership is willing to sell at almost $1k below what they're offering, but your waiting on this dealership to call you back with another $250.00 reduction, and they haven't yet? They're not going to, they will assume you went to the other place and got your vehicle nearly a thousand dollars cheaper. It sounds to me like you've gotten two really great deals, and you've rejected them both over what amounts to a pittance. If you really wanted the Z that badly, you've had dealt by now. If you really want that car, its time to quit playing the victim, and start playing the consumer. Last edited by Pheonix; 08-15-2009 at 12:57 PM.

08-16-2009, 10:36 PM	#43 (permalink)
mspeasl Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Decatur, IL Posts: 367 Drives: Red M6 Sport/Touring Rep Power: 268	Played Gang, After re-reading this thread I am beginning to think that we may be getting played. Just my thoughts. If I am wrong I apologize. But things just don't add up in my mind. __________________ Mspeasl - Central Illinois 2009 - Solid Red, M6 '370' Sport/Touring (Delivered 7 April 09)

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08-13-2009, 03:18 PM	#32 (permalink)
alvinmathew88 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Irving, TX Posts: 268 Drives: 97 Civic Ex Coupe Rep Power: 16	Wow way to thread jack guys.... I think yal should make a section in this forum, for discussing how Dealerships should/do profit or run their business. Besides that i think yal should take this discussion elsewhere... even though i find your discussion very interesting...

08-13-2009, 03:19 PM	#33 (permalink)
edeeZee Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: s. cali, los angeles Posts: 627 Drives: 09 370z plat 6 speed Rep Power: 266	It's OK Hitech, no offense taken. But it's humorous to see the time and toil you took to write out your superfluous post. Is that you Davidyan? I didn't know vindication and having thin skin is the way you demonstrated not being able to handle another's disagreement. You think extraneous fluff is validating? Anyhows, I don't use "hearsay" to explain my points. I was in the car biz from '99-'02. You never mentioned whether you had direct experience, or if you read a lot of "how to negotiate a new car" tactic from outside sources. 1% per month to floor could've been likely during that era. The economy wasn't in shambles like today, and interest rates (controlled by the Feds) were probably a lot higher. Thus 12% a year then was probable. The $400K/month figure was casually given to me by my friend. It doesn't imply that it is a detailed figure EVERY MONTH, it was ballpark instead. Seriously, are you the auditor for this dealer? Then how do you know. How many VW's, Hyundai's or Lincolns did we move. The profit margins on all 3 brands vary. FYI, we moved primarily VW Jettas and Passats; Jettas had less then $1,500 profit typically, and Passats had around $1,700 on average. And you know what? We blew every unit out at invoice because VW's don't pull like crazy. This store was good, they paid the salesman $200 flats because if it was 20% after $500 pack, then they couldn't retain sales people. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with negotiating a deal. But trying to take all the meat off the bone is going to lead to dealer kicking you out. We live in a capitalistic society, if you don't like the deal, then you got the freedom to walk out, you're not under duress. BTW, I don't tip waiters nor waitresses who cop an attitude. I literally pay the bill and don't leave no change.

08-14-2009, 07:42 PM	#37 (permalink)
DooDooBrown Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ranson, WV Posts: 178 Drives: 09 370 Touring w/spt Rep Power: 16	Ok, so here is the update..... I called the dealer back up, and asked if they had any in a different color, and he told me they had one at another dealership, and they wouldn't give it up. So I go over to the other dealership (both cars are identical) (another 55 miles), and go through the whole test drive, etc... I then pull out the papers from USAA, and the written quote that the other dealership gave me. The sales manager wasn't too happy. As it stood with the other car, it was 16,984 out the door, in addition to my trade in. They responded back saying that they wanted 18250 and my trade in. I then explained I would take to car off the lot today for 17,500 , and kindly explained (as they saw), that an identical car was sitting 50 miles away for $1216.00 less, and that car additionaly had illumanated kick plates. I explained that I was willing to pay the extra 500 to them because I would prefer to have my first choice color, however, anything over that price, and it was just not worth it. They came back with 17989, and that was "their final offer". I spoke personally to the sales manager, and explained to him my reservation, and which point he stated to me that he could go down to 17750, and after that, he would have to explain to the owner why he let a car go for so cheap. I told him 17500 was my budget, and if he chose to accept it, I would have the cash in his hand by the end of the day. He was stuck on 17750, and I told him if he wasn't willing to come down $250.00, there would be no sale. I kindly excused myself, and left the dealership. I have no idea if they will call me back, probably not, but it kinda erks me that they wouldnt go down 250 to make a sale. That to me shows that a dealer would not want to work with you down the road if something where to occur. Am I just being stupid? Another night, without a Z!

08-16-2009, 09:31 PM	#42 (permalink)
theART Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: BC Posts: 163 Drives: To Drive Rep Power: 7822	sounds like you've already spent $250 by driving over 200 miles and wasting ur time.