anyone getting MSRP (or below)

Hi-TecDesigns · 08-01-2009, 09:11 AM

Well, David, I went into a dealership last night with a renewed vigor, due in part to your post of people getting deals for less than invoice. I saw exactly what I wanted, in chicane yellow... the color is my favorite, but I was simply not willing to pay $500 for a color choice. In a nutshell, I told the sales manager I was willing to pay $300 of that $500 (essentially $200 below invoice), but the full $500 was out of the question as I would be happy with several other colors (none of which they had on the lot in the package I want).

It was obvious they would have accepted invoice, but they started to piss me off when they wanted to play hocus pocus with the numbers, continually asking me how much over invoice I wanted to pay (I couldn't have been more clear I was not going to pay a dime over invoice). Let's take a look at the kind of price crap they tried to pull with me, shall we? (Note: I knew exactly how much this vehicle and every option cost them for invoice, not assuming any extra dealer-specific bonuses for good customer feedback to Nissan corporate and such, which only helps them)

1) Showing me invoice price plus destination, calling that invoice, and trying to convince me that price was what I was calling invoice in my original calculations, making it appear as if I undercalculated the vehicle's value by $700+.
2) Taking my "out the door price" offer and working backwards to what they claimed I was actually offering them (any astute person knows that 6% tax on price 'X' is not the same as 6% of price 'X'+tax, a mathematical sleight of hand which makes it look like I'm offering about $120 less than what I really am). I'm an engineer that calculates pi to 50 places in my head without breaking a sweat, so don't pull that BS on me.
3) Pointing to my offer price and showing how much lower than MSRP it is. Well, duh!
4) Throwing out multiple figures while I'm trying to calculate in my head what each option is worth, even after asking for a minute to do just that in peace and quiet. You may make me lose count, but that just means I'm going to start from the beginning again, and now you've succeeded in pissing me off.
5) Trying to tell me the dealership would be losing money on the deal, especially right after I finished telling them I knew exactly how much profit they were making in holdback and "processing" fees (about $550).
6) Telling me how "hot" this car is and how selling it at that price would be crazy for such a great-selling car, leading me to shoot back with:
a) 2010s will be on your lot in a month and a half
b) This car has been on your lot for a while now (costing you, I bet, about $25/wk in lost profit)
c) upcoming models are 40th anniversary, meaning new colors (like black cherry) and custom badging
7) Other minor crap not worth mentioning, but still annoying, nonetheless.

In the end we couldn't make a deal, so I shook his hand, thanked him and the sales guy for their time, and hopped back in our new Cube and drove home. The search will continue today. Current deals end August 3rd, none of which include the 370Z, so hopefully we'll see some incentives show up after the new deal cycle kicks in.

Cjanik · 08-01-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-TecDesigns

It was obvious they would have accepted invoice, but they started to piss me off when they wanted to play hocus pocus with the numbers, continually asking me how much over invoice I wanted to pay (I couldn't have been more clear I was not going to pay a dime over invoice). Let's take a look at the kind of price crap they tried to pull with me, shall we? (Note: I knew exactly how much this vehicle and every option cost them for invoice, not assuming any extra dealer-specific bonuses for good customer feedback to Nissan corporate and such, which only helps them)

1) Showing me invoice price plus destination, calling that invoice, and trying to convince me that price was what I was calling invoice in my original calculations, making it appear as if I undercalculated the vehicle's value by $700+.
2) Taking my "out the door price" offer and working backwards to what they claimed I was actually offering them (any astute person knows that 6% tax on price 'X' is not the same as 6% of price 'X'+tax, a mathematical sleight of hand which makes it look like I'm offering about $120 less than what I really am). I'm an engineer that calculates pi to 50 places in my head without breaking a sweat, so don't pull that BS on me.
3) Pointing to my offer price and showing how much lower than MSRP it is. Well, duh!
4) Throwing out multiple figures while I'm trying to calculate in my head what each option is worth, even after asking for a minute to do just that in peace and quiet. You may make me lose count, but that just means I'm going to start from the beginning again, and now you've succeeded in pissing me off.
5) Trying to tell me the dealership would be losing money on the deal, especially right after I finished telling them I knew exactly how much profit they were making in holdback and "processing" fees (about $550).
6) Telling me how "hot" this car is and how selling it at that price would be crazy for such a great-selling car, leading me to shoot back with:
a) 2010s will be on your lot in a month and a half
b) This car has been on your lot for a while now (costing you, I bet, about $25/wk in lost profit)
c) upcoming models are 40th anniversary, meaning new colors (like black cherry) and custom badging
7) Other minor crap not worth mentioning, but still annoying, nonetheless.

sounds like the dealer tried to get you, maybe called your bluff. You should wait a couple days then go back to the same guy, he will now know your willing to walk away again and might just "want to get it over with".

Also wanted to mention, there is a factory charge called destination charge which the dealer must pay. it is not really negotiable - because thats the price it cost to ship it from japan.

Dont take their BS about how 370z's are selling like hotcakes, thats total BS, my dealer has only sold 1 370z in the last 2 months and they have 8 370z's

I gotta say it sounded like you did a good job negotiating. Dont give up yet!

Hi-TecDesigns · 08-01-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjanik

sounds like the dealer tried to get you, maybe called your bluff. You should wait a couple days then go back to the same guy, he will now know your willing to walk away again and might just "want to get it over with".

I intend to wait until after the 3rd (Monday) has passed... the current incentives (unfortunately on just about every car but the 370Z) are good until then, so hopefully starting with the 4th a whole new batch of incentives will be in place. It's their last chance to get older cars off of the lot before the new ones start rolling on.

Quote:

Also wanted to mention, there is a factory charge called destination charge which the dealer must pay. it is not really negotiable - because thats the price it cost to ship it from japan.

If you notice in the first numbered item I mention the destination charge. I know it exists, that it's non-negotiable, and its exact amount. I'm sure to include it in my calculations.

Quote:

Dont take their BS about how 370z's are selling like hotcakes, thats total BS, my dealer has only sold 1 370z in the last 2 months and they have 8 370z's

I gotta say it sounded like you did a good job negotiating. Dont give up yet!

I made a reasonable attempt given my level of patience and energy level that day. I'll keep this particular car in mind if I don't find another one I like, but I'm not holding it out as the only one left.

As far as negotiations went, this was the breakdown:
1) With available options and destination, invoice on vehicle was $33,179
2) Add tax, we're up to $35,170
3) I initially offered $34,900 out the door, which started the lesson in mathematics
4) I came up to $200 below invoice, adding another $70, mainly to keep the math simple and prevent any more mind games (it's easier to say "I'll pay $200 below invoice" than "My final offer is $xx, xxxx")
5) No deal.

Modshack · 08-04-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-TecDesigns

As far as negotiations went, this was the breakdown:
1) With available options and destination, invoice on vehicle was $33,179
2) Add tax, we're up to $35,170
3) I initially offered $34,900 out the door, which started the lesson in mathematics
4) I came up to $200 below invoice, adding another $70, mainly to keep the math simple and prevent any more mind games (it's easier to say "I'll pay $200 below invoice" than "My final offer is $xx, xxxx")
5) No deal.

Leave the OTD stuff out of your negotiations unless thay have a crazy doc fee. Taxes and tags are a given. You're not negotiating them, but the car. If you know the price (on the car) you're willing to pay, there is no negotiations. You just let them play their games and wait them out. I bought mine with a VPP number which is essentially $100 under invoice so we didn't have to negotiate the car. The negotiation was for the trade. I got them up $3000 just sitting there and holding on the number I wanted. We did the deal eventually.

Hi-TecDesigns · 08-04-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Leave the OTD stuff out of your negotiations unless thay have a crazy doc fee. Taxes and tags are a given. You're not negotiating them, but the car. If you know the price (on the car) you're willing to pay, there is no negotiations. You just let them play their games and wait them out. I bought mine with a VPP number which is essentially $100 under invoice so we didn't have to negotiate the car. The negotiation was for the trade. I got them up $3000 just sitting there and holding on the number I wanted. We did the deal eventually.

The "paperwork" fee is $100, and I specifically stated my OTD cost of $200 under invoice did not include it. I didn't expect a yellow when I got there, nor did I expect the car not to have floor/trunk mats. Because of this, I had to do some head calcs of the new tax, minus mats, plus yellow, etc. the salesman asked me what I wanted to offer, so I quickly threw out $34,900 without finishing my head calcs, knowing it would be in the ballpark. He stepped out, the sales manager stepped in, and the amusement began. As I was finishing the head cals, I realized I was approaching $300 under invoice with that initial offer, so instead of throwing out an adjusted $35,000 even, I simply said $200 under invoice is my price. There was no "negotiation" on my part, I just had to get my asking price closer after making a mistake.

08-01-2009, 09:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
Hi-TecDesigns Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Glenelg, MD Posts: 146 Drives: 370 Rdstr AT7 BkChry Rep Power: 16	Well, David, I went into a dealership last night with a renewed vigor, due in part to your post of people getting deals for less than invoice. I saw exactly what I wanted, in chicane yellow... the color is my favorite, but I was simply not willing to pay $500 for a color choice. In a nutshell, I told the sales manager I was willing to pay $300 of that $500 (essentially $200 below invoice), but the full $500 was out of the question as I would be happy with several other colors (none of which they had on the lot in the package I want). It was obvious they would have accepted invoice, but they started to piss me off when they wanted to play hocus pocus with the numbers, continually asking me how much over invoice I wanted to pay (I couldn't have been more clear I was not going to pay a dime over invoice). Let's take a look at the kind of price crap they tried to pull with me, shall we? (Note: I knew exactly how much this vehicle and every option cost them for invoice, not assuming any extra dealer-specific bonuses for good customer feedback to Nissan corporate and such, which only helps them) 1) Showing me invoice price plus destination, calling that invoice, and trying to convince me that price was what I was calling invoice in my original calculations, making it appear as if I undercalculated the vehicle's value by $700+. 2) Taking my "out the door price" offer and working backwards to what they claimed I was actually offering them (any astute person knows that 6% tax on price 'X' is not the same as 6% of price 'X'+tax, a mathematical sleight of hand which makes it look like I'm offering about $120 less than what I really am). I'm an engineer that calculates pi to 50 places in my head without breaking a sweat, so don't pull that BS on me. 3) Pointing to my offer price and showing how much lower than MSRP it is. Well, duh! 4) Throwing out multiple figures while I'm trying to calculate in my head what each option is worth, even after asking for a minute to do just that in peace and quiet. You may make me lose count, but that just means I'm going to start from the beginning again, and now you've succeeded in pissing me off. 5) Trying to tell me the dealership would be losing money on the deal, especially right after I finished telling them I knew exactly how much profit they were making in holdback and "processing" fees (about $550). 6) Telling me how "hot" this car is and how selling it at that price would be crazy for such a great-selling car, leading me to shoot back with: a) 2010s will be on your lot in a month and a half b) This car has been on your lot for a while now (costing you, I bet, about $25/wk in lost profit) c) upcoming models are 40th anniversary, meaning new colors (like black cherry) and custom badging 7) Other minor crap not worth mentioning, but still annoying, nonetheless. In the end we couldn't make a deal, so I shook his hand, thanked him and the sales guy for their time, and hopped back in our new Cube and drove home. The search will continue today. Current deals end August 3rd, none of which include the 370Z, so hopefully we'll see some incentives show up after the new deal cycle kicks in. __________________ http://hi-tecdesigns.com/images/pict...on%20Small.gif 2000 S2000 Brickyard Red Metallic w/ Romanesque Crimson Kandy, custom everything else

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