But how is blowing what we saved, wasted because of research?
You also have to think of the economic times we are in, people are pushing their pennies farther, time spent on saving money is now weighted more than before where the first "good deal" was the final deal.

GTR-Man, I am just sharing my story with the forum. No one needs to follow the method. You are more than welcome to believe w/e you like or share your story. BTW, I do not understand how you've calculated my "days off" hours vs money because I don't get paid for relaxing on my days off. If I didn't do those things(i.e research or writing letters), I'd probably sleep or play rockband. Please feel free to pm me if you have anything against me (personally) or the way I have achieved my invoice price. Thanks

Well, I particularly like the research. I do this on my spare time anyways, so if anything, if i wasnt shopping around for a car or doing research on it, I would just be playing games or out paintballing with the guys.

To me, its just part of the fun. I like shopping around, then buying the car, then modifying it to my liking. Kind of like when you want to buy a house (I did the same thing with that too). I did give the dealer a fair profit on the car, I just spent a little more time doing my homework before I ordered my car. Yeah, I spent hours calling and visiting a few dealers in my area, but this was also my first time buying a new car.

Dreamer is right. You cant just quantify it in terms of money.

And while you might be a great dealer to work with, I ran into A LOT of salesmen who got mad at me because I 'did my homework.' I ended up going with another dealer even though it cost me a little more just because the one who offered me the best deal had an A-hole manager, and I just didnt want to deal with someone like that if I had problems with my purchase, so customer service does matter to me too.

The whole intent of this thread was a demonstration of AK's enthusiasm while trying to get others into a Z too. Obviously, he has a good relationship with the dealership as shown in his photographs since he too is helping out the dealership.

See this is the downside to having dealers troll internet forums. Especially for those of us that will be visiting these dealers. I plan on running my whole game plan by you guys before going to a dealer, and the closest/best one to me happens to be our sponsoring dealer. If he reads my thread, hes going to have me all mapped out before I come in! (hehe)

Boardwalk Nissan - Supporing Dealer - Nissan 370Z Forum
Mike from Boardwalk Nissan is a pretty good guy. Just pm him with your offer and see what he can do. You already know how to get 3.99 APR so that's one less headache.

YES! this Guy is a REAL TOOL!!!


I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading his garbage post!

He is exactly why I will never buy from a dealer! I mean honestly, who in their right mind would want to go into the dealer this "TOOL" works at and try to buy a car. Then he sarts garbling about all these useless numbers about MR. Y and MR X, deal verses deal, APR verses APR, mumbo jumbo...

I will gladly utilize my time "researching" the BEST possible deal (INVOICE -$1578.00) and the LOWEST APR available (3.99%)!

It is time well spent and time is relative and as long as it is my time i am utilizing then no one else has to be concerned...

You on the other hand can't come to terms with forums like this one because it threatens your way of life! and that pleases me, because I feel that TOOLS like you are an Abomination to the rest of this civilized world!:shakes head:
:drama:

Wow! I was going to wait till this weekend after I get ceramic tint on my 370z and post about my buying experience and post pics at the same time, but this BS from GT-R man made me post early.

What's up with GT-R man?

First, since AK370z did all this research, he may have "wasted" all this time to buy his 370z, but for the rest of us, the process is a whole lot easier and faster. So hence, AK370z's "wasted time and efforts" are actually a big gain and savings for anyone who reads his post and follows his steps.

Second, everyone knows most dealers are trying to scrape as much dinero as possible from customers, so AK370z is smart to do his negotiating on the internet from the comforts of his home instead of him having "walked in to a dealer asked to see the invoice given an offers lets say 100 over invoice." Which is really a bigger waste of time because there is no guarantee of success. I don't know about you, but I like sure things, so why not get a dealer to agree to your terms first, before you even set foot into a stealership?

Third, 3.99% offered by Penfed may go up or down, but you as a salesman and not a representative of PenFed would not know how long they are going to keep the rates as they are. By supposing that it will "only" last for 2 weeks, to a month I think is a cheap and dirty way of discouraging people from looking for better financing.

Finally, why would anyone pay over invoice? That's just stupid. I will tell everyone that any 370z can be purchased for invoice or below, way below. It just takes some research and patience. It's always an old salesman tactic to rush the customer to buy right now. It never serves the customer and only benefits the salesman.

If you ask for a 7 day option, which means that the dealer will give you 7 days to find your own financing, otherwise they will finance you at the rate that they offered. So if PenFed only takes 2 business days to approve and fedex a check to you then you have plenty of time to get your financing together, after you purchase the vehicle. you just need to ask for a finance option.

Folks do not stress out about buying a Z. It is actually really easy. Just be patient and do your research before you pull the trigger. Remember, actual dealer net cost on the Z is 4% below invoice, so for example on mine, the dealer net cost is $34,193 and change. So even with my so called "great" deal they still made $426, which is plenty.

We are not talking about purchasing a GT-R, which from what I have read, a lot of dealers are now selling for sticker, which is considered a good price. For prospective buyers, hang in there. There are deals to be had. It is very much a buyers market. Don't let the dealership smoke and mirrors fool you.

GT-R man, you need to work on your manners, your grammar and your math because you suck at all three.

I know, lets make up a story about how I spent 80 hours driving all over the bloody place working SO HARD to get invoice pricing on a car. You make it seem like we're taking precious work time and losing money to do this, champ.

Sorry, I do all this in my spare time. Im salary, so no matter what Im getting paid the same. Being military, overtime isn't a word in my vocabulary. So this 80 hours I apparently wasted (somehow losing about $1600) that you ever-so-masterfully fabricated, is meaningless.

You'd be a god damn pro at fudging government spending amounts. You're the stereotypical butt-hurt car salesman who hates the internet because people find out how to get a good deal.

This is exactly the mentality that a lot of car salespeople have, and it's exactly what makes us hate them. People are just fed up with being told lies, misinformation, and screwy math when they go to a dealer. We all have been through this before, whether it is at Porsche, BMW, or Nissan. So doing the research on pricing, features, options, owner experiences, etc. is for our own protection and our own knowledge, because we cannot count on people like you. And as someone said before, it is almost enjoyable to work hard on something and get good results.

Loan Period
 

To quote my loan reply message from Pen Fed;

Your loan approval is good for 90 days from date of approval.

Please note: The rate on the loan will be the rate that is effective at the time the loan is disbursed and this may be different from the rate in effect at the time of application submission.

Thank you for choosing Pentagon Federal. We hope that we can help you with all your financial needs.

Hope this helps.;)

wow so much hate in so little time...
 

If you feel like I have wasted your time reading my posts i m sorry. Like I stated at the begining of my post " this will sound like an angry salesman talking" Excuse my spelling and the math is not incorrect. pull out ur pocket calculator and give your +- 3% which is totally accepatable margin of error. You guys that bashed my post got me totally mixed up... If you feel like you can't call a dealership bc you are fed up with sales people maybe you are looking at this the wrong way... the old A**hole sales person is always going to be there no matter what... but the problem is when you call 8 different dealers and 5 of them have A** salesman and the other 3 that agree on price and work with you to help you get into the car you want you guys come bashing on us and calling us retards... you stereo type car salesman just as salesman stereotype internet shoppers as penny pinching butt plugs that cant budge on $100 bucks... yes it is our job to make as much as we can on car sale... $500 dollars over true invoice doesnt even pay the sales person... Do as much research as you want.. my job is to get the car you want at a price we can agree on. would i rather take that slim deal or no sale at all? this is what i chose to do... I am here because most of the people on this forum wouldnt last 1 day as a car salesperson, its not always about the money its about offering something no one else has.

All for all of you from S.Cal complaining about my spelling maybe you should write me a reply in french or spanish or portuguese... if you can do so without errors then I'LL ware that donkey hat... :tiphat:

I find it funny that my "mumbo jumbo" uses less math than a 5th grader and u cant understand it... which by the looks of it you wouldnt qualify for the 3.99% regardeless... :gtfo2:

Because your math is completely flawed. That's why nobody "understands" it.

You throw out a random hourly wage, random "time spent" doing random tasks to purchase a vehicle. And then made it seem like he took 2 full weeks of work off to BUY A CAR (80 hours worth) and "lost" that money, so in the end the money he saved was offset by the "$1600" he wasted in time.

Read: your odd tale of wasting money to buy a car with fudged wages and fudged time-spent is all a fabrication in your mind, exacerbated by the fact that you're frustrated you cant sell a car at MSRP to someone who's educated enough to know how a dealerships financial system works.

I dont know what you're complaining about anyway, its not like there wont be some Joe Dumbass waltzing in willing to pay sticker or more because he thinks it'll be SO exclusive.

Ha...

Qualify I did my little thorn...

AND 1578 bucks below invoice!:owned:

GT-R man Care to tell us where and at what dealership you work at? That would be truly useful information. As from your post I am sure all on here will recomend you. People like you are why sales men get a bad name. You either need to post where you work or STFU. Your rantings have no logic. You assume that I am taking time from work to buy a car. I do it on my FREE time. So there for my time is free. Just like I cut my grass on my FREE time. I don't work 24/7 so in my FREE time I do what I enjoy and it costs me nothing. To most people on this form we like researching about the car, its costs and reasonable prices so that is FREE time to us. Now for me I also do this barganing while at work where I get paid 1500 a day. So if I spend half my day while I am at work doing this, accourding to your logic, every dollar i save on the car from you is like 2 more dollars in my pocket. See how messed up that sounds. you either need to put up or shut up.

Wow you must truly beleive that I would actually put out the name of my company so you guys can bash it... please dont waste your time... The reason why I have this account is to keep up with what customers expect and do when they come to our showroom floor... In one way I am actually doing my customers a favor for not having to put them through the crapy experience you guys had. If i m not wrong when you are a platinum level consultant I m sure that what a blog says won't change my income... So as far as I care.. or dont :rolleyes: yall are the only tools I have used

cut the crap unless you work at a bank or at a dealership and does this for a living you don't know squat about this business... its my job to educate people that come through the door and make my living its not my job to put up with ignorant people because there are 2 things that you cant change... ignorance and poverty.. those are the 2 main things that stop american buyers from buying their dream car.

Even if i give customers what they want they still do not buy.. why because do not know how they need people like me to give them the extra push... thats why my job is crutial to the auto industry... we might be A$$ess sometimes but we are the ones that make it happen not mr. "I m gonna buy from another dealer 3 hrs away bc I dont have the balls to sit and negotiate."

Now Negotiating the price for a new vehicle is a waste of time:icon18:

you should practice what you preach brotha:rofl2:

so when you go to a dealer and you have an idea of what your trade is worth lets say $15000 and he offers you $13500? Do you just look at it and leave? and go to another dealer? bc thats when negotiating comes in... reguardless of how automated car buying gets negotiation is never gonna go away..

Well by your rules, you've just wasted a lot of money writing your posts on this forum. Those are a lot of opportunity costs, and you could have used that time to sell at least 8 cars at 13.99 percent for 72 months, for at least 4k over MSRP. Or are you "investing" these posts for the sake of your career, hoping it will pay off with mobs of people coming to buy a car on your terms?

The OP spent his time wisely, and came out on top because of it. It's what a well-educated person does before making a large purchase....

If you read my entire post, you've just lost more time that could have been devoted to selling cars, so I suggest that you :gtfo2:

point made!

myself on the other hand, I will never buy from a dealer as long as im in the military. I just wait till the tail end of a deployment and go online to omsc and build my dream car, and wait as i am currently....oh and no trade ins required:tup:

GT-R man come on really you sell used ford tempos out of your moms front yard don't you? It is alright you can tell us. Because if not you are the worst sales man I have ever "met". Again you are the reason sales men get a bad name. My sales man is polite and gives me a level of service that I will take into consideration when i settle on the price I want. But I go into the showroom with a price and I walk out with the price everytime. He tries to get it higher but no I alway reasearch and make a far offer. Your attidude makes it sound like you think you are better then every customer that comes into your showroom and you know everything. Let me tell you you don't. I don't no one knoews everything. You are just coming off as a dink and i hope you are only this way on a form where you cowardly hide who you are. Other formes have meny sales men as members and they actually participate in education learning what we the customer want and also sharing helpfuul insite into the sales process. You my friend have done neither. Hope the economy dose not let the door hit oyu on the way out cuz if you treat your customers like you are saying here your not going to last too much longer.

This is probably a stupid question. What is the necessary information that I should put on the word document? Car package, asking price, monthly payment, down payment, fico score. Anything else?

This thread is very interesting.

I am a salesman also, working for Toyota. There has been many times, actually i would say about 3-6 times a day when i want to tell a customer to F**** off! but i dont. i give every customer i speak to the red carpet treatment and within the week they usually make a purchase with me and many times at full list or MSRP. There are customers who dont give a f**** who you are, how much training you have or how long you been selling cars for they just want the lowest absolute price possible, take delivery of the car, and never wanna see you again. And then there are customers who just want to be treated with respect and want to feel like they've been taken care of and when they see that.. they'll let you stick your hand in their pocket.

And on the flip side of that coin, when I was younger my mom had a salesmen she ALWAYS went to. Trusted him with everything she bought, and always went back to him.

As I grew older and realized how buying a car works, it was then I realized he was royally screwing her over every single time she went to buy a car. We got 6 cars through him before I told her this, too.

Just got my check in the mail. 2 weeks 4 days till the car arrives! Thanks to the OP for bringing this opportunity to our attention.

What information about the car, if any, do you need to enter when applying online? I haven't found the car I want yet. Thanks.

One of the first question on the loan app. "Do you know know the exact car you want"? When you say NO (that's what I did since I didn't have the VIN), it omits all the car info. You can proceed through the whole application process and have the check FEDEXed the next day. When you receive the check, you'll see empty boxes for Dealer to fill out (VIN no, amount etc). Just take the check to the dealer and they'll fill it out for you. They are aware of this kind of check. PenFed also includes a very easy to follow instructions.


BTW, I just paid my 1st payment. From the next payment, the amount will be deducted straight from my checking account so I don't have to worry about paying the bill on time. I also saw this on my bill:

PrePayments: If you pay off early, you will not have to pay a penalty.

There are many financial institution that charges extra fee if you want to pay off your loan early :rolleyes:. But NOT PenFed! I will try to pay off as soon as possible without worrying about any penalty fee. :tup::excited:

Great, thanks for the info (again)! I assume you do not have to use a Pen Fed checking/savings account to use the auto-debit feature?

Yup, you do not. But you can if you want. I just set the payment up with my own bank checking account.

Seriously, where is the flaw in wanting or expecting "the lowest absolute price possible, take(ing) delivery of the car, and never wanna(ting) see you again." You dealers simply provide a service, which thanks to the internet, is now simply a more transparent transaction to the customer.

Although I appreciate good customer service, and will usually pay a little extra for the privilege, I am not going to bend over and take it up the a** because I failed to do a minimal amount of due diligence and research when making a major purchase and leave it up to your kind to give me a "fair" price.

Bottom line is, none of us are here to make friends with the car dealers. I couldn't give a sh*t who you are. Your selling f***ing cars champ. That's it. All we require is professional and competent service, and a good product at a fair price. Considering the current economic reality, some of the sh*t you guys are trying to pull with the dealer mark-ups and an expectation of making MSRP on every deal is seriously numbering your days.

Good thing I have a buying service to do all this sh*t for me, and yes, I do enjoy the "research" tremendously, as do many of the guys and gals on this forum. Its all part of being a true enthusiast.

and you, your just off your meds.

I have noticed that on this forum unless you hear something that you agree with people dont seem to take it as a learning experience, and SUBTURD is right dealers are numbering their days... and same to buyers.... because once the little dealers go broke and only the large ones are left... they will reign over their region, either new cars will become automated where you put in a price like on ebay and hope they accept the offer "best case scenario for all buyers" or they will have rediculous prices and make is so hard for customers to buy cars at reasonable prices that customer will buy mostly used cars.

but regardless of what happens the way it is now is going to change either completly eliminating my job or giving me a raise... either way customers will still not like to buy cars because customers hate to negotiate... :tiphat:

I have to disagree completely.
With the introduction of mass media, internet, etc. People have become more aware of better deals, how to negotiate, and where to look. I am still shocked at the number of people still going to a dealer and taking the first deal (good for a dealership), but those days are numbered with how quickly people have instant access. Instead of having to go to 10 dealerships and haggle, then go home and find reviews, books, or friends; now people can spend ten minutes, or more, online and access best interest rate, invoice price (fair market value for your region), etc.

The idea of haggling will soon die, and either dealerships will embrace this new customer awareness or not be around anymore.

GT-R Man: No one will ever accuse you of putting forth an intelligent counter-arguement, lol. However, your incoherent ramblings are both ammusing and blissfully free of logic. :tiphat:

Here's the point. The paradigm has shifted, the model changed. If you understood the rudimentary basics of 'supply and demand' and the economics of 'volume' you will see that the Carmax, 'no-haggle' model is indeed the future.

Cars are essentially large and expensive appliances. We are not dealing here with diamonds or some other precious commodity that requires a specific expertise to determine price and quality.

Carmax treats cars the way Best Buy treats TV's. Because of volume sales, we the consumer get an immediate bottom line with all the same warranties, options, etc, as the dealers would like to offer.

"or they will have rediculous prices and make is so hard for customers to buy cars at reasonable prices that customer will buy mostly used cars."

This will never happen. Again, were dealing with volume. The trend will be to eliminate your job. In addition, the internet has given us complete transparency to your once "secret knowledge" and now anyone with a computer can find out the true costs and 'hidden' incentives of the product.

Although I can appreciate a good "negotiation", most people really don't have time in their day to argue with some sweaty, half-wit a**hole, who generally knows alot less about the car then they do. I have found this to be a most common experience.

So in the end I suppose we are not being "man" enough in your eyes by not wanting to face the 'big, bad car dealer.' In truth, its far less dramatic. We all have better things to do rather then subjugate oursleves to some antiquated form of bartering for an expensive appliance when we can skip all that headache and infact almost always get a better price by not coming in at all and doing all the 'negotiating' right here, on the computer.

Eventually, there will be no need for the 'car salesman' and we can just deal directly with the manufacturer via an automated, internet-based system and have the car delivered, to spec, right to our front door. :driving:

:bowdown:

Very well put

Subterfuge - the only way you could have closed out your post better is by saying, "Bickety bam, beotch"

LOL . . . Indeed. Thanks guys, just trying to keep it interesting.