Renderings of the Next-Gen Z...

HKYStormFront · 10-12-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

don't we have that already?

yes, i was saying i hope that continues instead of just being a DCT style transmission like the GTR where no 3 pedal option is offered (tho it is a great transmission)

Ron · 10-12-2011, 04:48 PM

gotcha!

Isamu · 10-12-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

making the Z forced induction would raise the price significantly, figure somewhere between the $50-60k range, especially with a big robust hunk of aluminum like the VR38 block. also keep in mind the VR block was specifically developed to be in the GTR and was never intended to be bolted to a transmission (the GTR's is in the back of the car). the Z powertrain is relatively inexpensive and easy to repair. why was the Z32 "not feasible" to go forced induction? it had an overbuilt chassis with a beefy transmission, engine and axle. it still had it's issues and owners who destroyed components.

the juke w/ the GTR motor is just a pipe dream "can we do it?" test. no way in hell it will ever see the light of day in showrooms

did you read a word I wrote?
I already stated that the Juke R was just a fun thing they were doing. and that it wasn't headed for production.. BUT, perhaps they are doing it for more then a can we... the Juke platform for the next Z? possible.. yes.. likely, probably not.. but perhaps they are seeing what is viable..

I really don't know where you get your numbers from, but adding forced induction doesn't have to raise the price to high 50's low 60's.
especially if they are using technology already in use, and adapting it to a new model. I don't get your why was the z32 not feasable to go FI.. because it was FI.. and it was full of cool stuff like HICAS(which is admittedly garbage... ) I dog my Z32 auto TT and it runs strong, aside from the weak alternator, but its an OEM alt from 91...
my Manual TT is being rebuilt, but there wasn't really anything wrong with it.. just wanted MORE out of it..

Spikuh · 10-12-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu

the next Z on the Juke platform...

That would be the new S car. :P

HKYStormFront · 10-12-2011, 04:58 PM

why would the next Z be based on a FWD SUV platform like the Juke? the price of the Z would have to raise to the 50-60k range for F/I because of the added cost of the extra components as well as the ability to give it at least the standard warranty. that's what killed them. they sold the Z32 very close to what it cost them to make it (which was very expensive for the time). when people started trashing transmissions and rear axles it cost them a lot of money to replace those parts under warranty. now they could release a TT Z again and do the GTR method of "if you break it, you fix it but we'll cover everything else" but that would only make a bad situation worse. it's much easier for them to warranty an N/A car and they are happy to let companies like Stillen and GTM develop forced induction kits to put on the cars for the owners who want them which takes the liability of the warranty off the car. that's basically what it comes down to and that's straight from the "source" i talked to

Isamu · 10-12-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

why would the next Z be based on a FWD SUV platform like the Juke? the price of the Z would have to raise to the 50-60k range for F/I because of the added cost of the extra components as well as the ability to give it at least the standard warranty. that's what killed them. they sold the Z32 very close to what it cost them to make it (which was very expensive for the time). when people started trashing transmissions and rear axles it cost them a lot of money to replace those parts under warranty. now they could release a TT Z again and do the GTR method of "if you break it, you fix it but we'll cover everything else" but that would only make a bad situation worse. it's much easier for them to warranty an N/A car and they are happy to let companies like Stillen and GTM develop forced induction kits to put on the cars for the owners who want them which takes the liability of the warranty off the car. that's basically what it comes down to and that's straight from the "source" i talked to

I have seen some cool stuff come from cross platform concepts.. im just saying.. and I agree it would be better for nissan to do an NA, but I really don't think 50-60K would be a accurate reading I would say mid to upper 40's..
BECAUSE they already have existing technology

daisuke149 · 10-12-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

why would the next Z be based on a FWD SUV platform like the Juke? the price of the Z would have to raise to the 50-60k range for F/I because of the added cost of the extra components as well as the ability to give it at least the standard warranty. that's what killed them. they sold the Z32 very close to what it cost them to make it (which was very expensive for the time). when people started trashing transmissions and rear axles it cost them a lot of money to replace those parts under warranty. now they could release a TT Z again and do the GTR method of "if you break it, you fix it but we'll cover everything else" but that would only make a bad situation worse. it's much easier for them to warranty an N/A car and they are happy to let companies like Stillen and GTM develop forced induction kits to put on the cars for the owners who want them which takes the liability of the warranty off the car. that's basically what it comes down to and that's straight from the "source" i talked to

im not gonna read the whole thread

but i honestly think that a FI version would be nice.

Part of my assumption for them so drastically raising the GTR HP each year is to create distance for when the next Z comes out.

Plus, having a transmission in the back is actually something I like and would prefer them to do, giving them more room in the engine back, better balance and dynamics.

As much as we also want to think that staying NA and letting other companies is the easy way out, its not when they want to reach some of the new strict Emissions and MPG standards. FI is the way to go to achieve those. Of course could not do it in the Z and let the other cars bring their averages up.

I would prefer a non FI option around 28k starting, an FI option around 40k starting. the 12 diff is more than enough for them to still make it worth while.

They could use the same block, structure and transmission housings, etc

Maybe just tweak the internals and head work for the FI and then of course all the other necessary components. And it would still make them a profit.

All in all if the next Z isnt in the 450 range its not my next car.

Isamu · 10-12-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

im not gonna read the whole thread

but i honestly think that a FI version would be nice.

Part of my assumption for them so drastically raising the GTR HP each year is to create distance for when the next Z comes out.

Plus, having a transmission in the back is actually something I like and would prefer them to do, giving them more room in the engine back, better balance and dynamics.

As much as we also want to think that staying NA and letting other companies is the easy way out, its not when they want to reach some of the new strict Emissions and MPG standards. FI is the way to go to achieve those. Of course could not do it in the Z and let the other cars bring their averages up.

I would prefer a non FI option around 28k starting, an FI option around 40k starting. the 12 diff is more than enough for them to still make it worth while.

They could use the same block, structure and transmission housings, etc

Maybe just tweak the internals and head work for the FI and then of course all the other necessary components. And it would still make them a profit.

All in all if the next Z isnt in the 450 range its not my next car.

HKYStormFront · 10-12-2011, 05:14 PM

i'm not saying this is what I want in the next Z car. i'm just saying this is what i heard from an industry insider... this is how it will be, not what it should be

HKYStormFront · 10-12-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

im not gonna read the whole thread

but i honestly think that a FI version would be nice.

Part of my assumption for them so drastically raising the GTR HP each year is to create distance for when the next Z comes out.

Plus, having a transmission in the back is actually something I like and would prefer them to do, giving them more room in the engine back, better balance and dynamics.

As much as we also want to think that staying NA and letting other companies is the easy way out, its not when they want to reach some of the new strict Emissions and MPG standards. FI is the way to go to achieve those. Of course could not do it in the Z and let the other cars bring their averages up.

I would prefer a non FI option around 28k starting, an FI option around 40k starting. the 12 diff is more than enough for them to still make it worth while.

They could use the same block, structure and transmission housings, etc

Maybe just tweak the internals and head work for the FI and then of course all the other necessary components. And it would still make them a profit.

All in all if the next Z isnt in the 450 range its not my next car.

450hp? that would surprise me. the Z is a RWD car. would that be cool? absolutely. there aren't many cars that can put that kind of power down in two wheel drive adequately. perhaps the new camaro and mustang (though they are a bit heavier). 450hp (assuming the 7500rpm redline remains) would mean a torque peak between 375 and 400 ft lbs at the crank. while i'm sure it's possible, it may not be A) reliable or B) feasible from a both production and ownership standpoint. having 450hp would mean the car would need larger brakes. larger brakes usually means larger wheels. the wheels would need to be wider and tires would also need to get even wider too. the cost of all of those things would not only drive the cost to purchase up but also make ownership more expensive (ie the GTR). a track focused performance model (like the Boss 302 and ZL1) can justify that extra cost so maybe the next nismo will get that kind of performance. but for the bog standard car, i doubt anything close to 450hp will be there.

Isamu · 10-12-2011, 05:24 PM

I take what you say with a grain of salt, as I am in good with an insider as well.
Im not saying what you are saying is wrong, but that nothing is set in stone, and FI is ALWAYS an option

daisuke149 · 10-12-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

450hp? that would surprise me. the Z is a RWD car. would that be cool? absolutely. there aren't many cars that can put that kind of power down in two wheel drive adequately. perhaps the new camaro and mustang (though they are a bit heavier). 450hp (assuming the 7500rpm redline remains) would mean a torque peak between 375 and 400 ft lbs at the crank. while i'm sure it's possible, it may not be A) reliable or B) feasible from a both production and ownership standpoint. having 450hp would mean the car would need larger brakes. larger brakes usually means larger wheels. the wheels would need to be wider and tires would also need to get even wider too. the cost of all of those things would not only drive the cost to purchase up but also make ownership more expensive (ie the GTR). a track focused performance model (like the Boss 302 and ZL1) can justify that extra cost so maybe the next nismo will get that kind of performance. but for the bog standard car, i doubt anything close to 450hp will be there.

in the old days that would be true. But technology is advancing.

Suspension systems/design. Rubber compounds for tires. Traction / laucnh controls.

Just because you have 450hp doesnt mean your using it all the time. For any vehicle on the track there are always situations where you have more power than is needed thus you feather the throttle etc etc. Would be no different here.

More HP doesnt mean larger brakes. Heavier car = bigger brakes.

Braking is relative to speed/weight etc. A car with 200hp can do 100mph as can a car with 300hp or 400hp etc.

ohh i wouldnt want the standard car at 450. Im talking a 450hp ish version. my idea is that it should be via FI thus looking at the expensive model.

base model should be good around what the current Z is.

Now granted a good sports car should have larger brakes regarless. But it doesn thave to be ridiculously large.

HKYStormFront · 10-12-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu

I take what you say with a grain of salt, as I am in good with an insider as well.
Im not saying what you are saying is wrong, but that nothing is set in stone, and FI is ALWAYS an option

was this person that you are referencing saying that it will be forced induction? i will say that the person i was talking to is very high up on the totem pole for nissan and they were echoing (granted in more detail) things that i had heard previously from people who have already seen the next Z (which is already done btw, just fine tuning settings and suspension) as well as other corporate people from Nissan itself that attend the Z events that i go to

HKYStormFront · 10-12-2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

in the old days that would be true. But technology is advancing.

Suspension systems/design. Rubber compounds for tires. Traction / laucnh controls.

Just because you have 450hp doesnt mean your using it all the time. For any vehicle on the track there are always situations where you have more power than is needed thus you feather the throttle etc etc. Would be no different here.

More HP doesnt mean larger brakes. Heavier car = bigger brakes.

Braking is relative to speed/weight etc. A car with 200hp can do 100mph as can a car with 300hp or 400hp etc.

ohh i wouldnt want the standard car at 450. Im talking a 450hp ish version. my idea is that it should be via FI thus looking at the expensive model.

base model should be good around what the current Z is.

Now granted a good sports car should have larger brakes regarless. But it doesn thave to be ridiculously large.

i see what you are saying. i thought you meant the next Z should have somewhere near 450hp starting out, my mistake

also, the idea of a rear mounted trans is really cool but not really needed at this time. the Z34 is pretty close to a 50/50 weight balance. most of the weight at the front is behind the front wheels and the majority of the weight in the back of the car is focused near the rear axle so i don't think they can justify the extra cost of making a transaxle vs using the traditional transmission and differential setup that it currently has.

Isamu · 10-12-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

was this person that you are referencing saying that it will be forced induction? i will say that the person i was talking to is very high up on the totem pole for nissan and they were echoing (granted in more detail) things that i had heard previously from people who have already seen the next Z (which is already done btw, just fine tuning settings and suspension) as well as other corporate people from Nissan itself that attend the Z events that i go to

no, my friend is a regional VP for Nissan NA. He, and I will use your termonolgy... echoed what you are saying, just that FI is, and always will be an option.. ie something that they think about. alot of people in his circle are wanting to see a turbo'ed version of a Z...

10-12-2011, 04:58 PM	#80 (permalink)
HKYStormFront A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Greer, SC Posts: 14,954 Drives: 06 Frontier SE 6spd Rep Power: 52	why would the next Z be based on a FWD SUV platform like the Juke? the price of the Z would have to raise to the 50-60k range for F/I because of the added cost of the extra components as well as the ability to give it at least the standard warranty. that's what killed them. they sold the Z32 very close to what it cost them to make it (which was very expensive for the time). when people started trashing transmissions and rear axles it cost them a lot of money to replace those parts under warranty. now they could release a TT Z again and do the GTR method of "if you break it, you fix it but we'll cover everything else" but that would only make a bad situation worse. it's much easier for them to warranty an N/A car and they are happy to let companies like Stillen and GTM develop forced induction kits to put on the cars for the owners who want them which takes the liability of the warranty off the car. that's basically what it comes down to and that's straight from the "source" i talked to __________________ Patrick // 06 Frontier 6spd Nismosis // Mods: Uprev Tuned @ Z1 Motorsports: 257whp & 292 ft lbs 09 Pontiac G8 GXP // M6 // Sunroof // Tint... For now

10-12-2011, 05:14 PM	#84 (permalink)
HKYStormFront A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Greer, SC Posts: 14,954 Drives: 06 Frontier SE 6spd Rep Power: 52	i'm not saying this is what I want in the next Z car. i'm just saying this is what i heard from an industry insider... this is how it will be, not what it should be __________________ Patrick // 06 Frontier 6spd Nismosis // Mods: Uprev Tuned @ Z1 Motorsports: 257whp & 292 ft lbs 09 Pontiac G8 GXP // M6 // Sunroof // Tint... For now

10-12-2011, 04:48 PM	#77 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	gotcha!