I'am afraid you are confused.Race gas and oxgeanated gas are two different things.I stated that a stock 370z will not in any way make 14 hp more with race gas.I said nothing about oxgeanated fuel.Apparently you don't know the difference.I believe the original post was questioning different octane ratings
of race gas.Not oxgeanated fuel.
As for me speaking my mind on this forum I thought that was it is all about on here.Sponsor or administrator it shouldn't make any difference.We are all equals on here as far as our opinions!

Also my friend you used the words "liar and a fraud" not me.So they were your words.Have a nice day!

dun worry it's does surprise ppl girls need a car like this lol

The XXX racing fuel is oxygenated. In fact, it is one of the most oxygenated fuels available on the market. Typical race gas on an otherwise stock car is, like the rest of this thread states over and over again, not going to do much at all. I know I wasn't being called out, but I just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page :)

Here is the original blog post and video, just for reference: XXX Racing Fuel Gains 14whp on Stock 370Z : Injected Performance Blog

The video basically speaks for itself. Baseline dyno pull, adding five gallons of the XXX gas, then running it again. We don't carry the fuel, we don't sell it, and we have absolutely no bias towards or against them. The company was touring near the area and decided to stop by to advertise their product. Being curious like everyone else would likely be, we took them up on their offer and did a dyno test then and there.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3385/...e178c4d934.jpg

The power gains are almost entirely from the oxygen content rather than the octane level. The XXX fuel used has almost twice the oxygen as other products on the market, like VP's Q16. Was it an interesting experiment? Of course! Is it a fuel that we would recommend for everyday use? Not really. It is being marketed as an alternative to race gas, and I wish them luck in getting the product out there.

hahahah GO RYAN GO!

Thanks for the info, Ryan.

Blown32, don't get your panties in a wad. Listen, I think this is important. A forum member -- a sponsor no less -- has produced a video showing that XXX oxygenated race fuel produces a 14whp gain in a stock Z. Now, if it turns out that the dyno results were somehow falsified, I think that needs to be exposed. Indeed, if it turns out that the claim of a 14whp gain is BS, as you put it, we'll all owe you a debt of gratitude. On the other hand, if it turns out that the results are valid, then it's important to know that too. We're all after the same thing here -- we all want the truth. For the good of the community, we all want to vet out misinformation, do we not? So ease up, this isn't about you, and I wasn't trying to suggest that you shouldn't express opinions if they contradict those of a sponsor. Rather, I emphasize that IP is a sponsor because if a sponsor is putting out misleading or false info, it's all the more important for it to be vetted out.

As for the original post being about octane ratings, that's certainly true. But I am not the one who opened the door on this race fuel tangent. The OP is actually the first person who alluded to race fuel when he posted a link to gas stations that sell race gas in SoCal (post #5), and then Bullitt mentions it in post #22.

Again, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this for the sake of getting at the truth. I presume that's what you're interested in as well, so we're really on the same side.

No problem and your info is real interesting.Just that some people relate oxygenated fuel as ordinary race fuel and it is in a class all by it self.So was trying to get that message across to some on here that were confusing the two.
Very impressive results and thanks again for sharing the test results.

Back on the topic of octane ratings, have you guys noticed the slight difference between US-spec Zs and Australian-spec? According to Rudi (post #18), "In the manual for the Australian version, it states: Use UNLEADED PREMIUM gasoline with an octane rating of 98 (RON)." That works out to 93.1 AKI octane, according to this: US Octane VS Other countries Octane Ratings

In the US manual, it says to use 91 octane, and even says 96 RON in brackets. It's only a 2 point difference, but I wonder if we should infer anything from it. Like maybe the engine is in fact optimized for 93 octane? *shrug*

Hmm so this XXX fuel thing is interesting. So the basic idea here, if I'm understanding correctly, is that it's a higher octane fuel which also has added oxygen - and this means the extra oxygen in the fuel is effectively leaning out the mix for more power, and the extra octane is preventing the knock that would otherwise occur if you leaned out the mix that much on pump gas?

That's how I'm interpreting it (not that I'm an expert on fuel by any stretch of the imagination lol). I mean, that's why I find this so intriguing. The idea that you can just pour some of this stuff into your tank and get an immediate 14whp gain -- how can that not catch one's attention? And if I'm understanding the video correctly, they poured it into a tank that already had some regular fuel it, so it was like a 50/50 mix. I'd like to see what would happen if you poured this stuff into an empty tank! :excited:

To answer the earlier question about the ECU advancing timing...

Using a semi-closed loop system, The ECU will retard timing as knock appears, and it will advance timing back as knock disappears, slowly but surely until either knock appears or it is back to the default timing. The key here is once the ECU has advanced back to the default value, it will not advance any farther. If there is zero knock on 93 on a sunny day, you are getting the best performance out of the engine possible, and placing a higher octane will not increase power (not getting into the oxygenated argument here). Don't make the mistake that the ECU will continue to advance timing beyond the default until it starts to knock, always giving you the most power possible for each tank of gas... it doesn't work that way.

Just as an example (from a 2008 Corvette) there are High octane and low octane timing tables that are selected based on knock sensor output. Without tuner intervention, the high octane table is going to give you the most timing advance adjusted for commonly available gas octane, but no more. Tuners can and will build Very high octane tables to take advantage of 100 octane race gas. Usually the only differences with these tunes are the timing adjustments. More octane + more timing = more HP

High:
http://images33.fotki.com/v1185/phot...anehigh-vi.jpg

Low:
http://images34.fotki.com/v1195/phot...tanelow-vi.jpg

From what I have heard, 100 octane in Japan is like the 91 octane here and 91 octane there is like the 87 octane here. And since the z is a "world car" the ecu should compensate and performance should improve with the highest octane the car was designed to run on which is 100 octane.

Not sure how true that is

The US doesn't use Octane, we use AKI, average knock index. You cannot compare it to the rest of the world

We do refer to octane, but it's rated a bit differently -- RON+MON/2 = AKI, whereas most of the rest of the world uses RON.

You can get a close approximation on RON vs AKI tho'; typically .95*RON = approximately equivalent AKI.

Example: The Z recommended octane is 91 AKI and 96 RON

96 RON*.95 = 91.2, very close to the AKI value.

Yeah, that's close.

If the RON is 100 in Japan, 95~ AKI

My money would be something like 94 on America's AKI system because that's probably the highest you CAN find at a normal pump in the US (I think I've seen 94 at the pump in Ohio, or Illinois, or Michigan)

All this had to do with octane wars years ago (1970's ??). This ended once they settled on the RON+MON/2 = AKI formula.

I'm sure Nissan considered all this when they put parameters on the ecu so that it could be a world car.

So can a z34 run "100 octane" or whatever it's called from the local 76 station pump here in So Cal and will it improve performance?

When I had my 240sx with an sr swap it ran ok on 91 but felt much livelier when I put in 100 but the vq is a different motor. Sorry for the noob question just trying to learn. It's funny google actually pulls up better results than the forum but I haven't found a thread that confirmed anything

I doubt it. And you'd probably "gain" only if you reset your ECU too

Basically, if it wasn't running full advance, it would be more likely to do so on higher octane fuel.

And I say "more likely" rather than definitely because other sensor data affects how much advance it runs (e.g., oil temp).

Of course, you could always fill it up with a full tank of >100 AKI, and with Uprev try and dial in more advance, then save it as a "track day/High Octane" tune...

Yes, for sure, that is a different story. You can of course do that.

full tank of 100 octane is definitely overkill unless you have a tune for it. but i throw in a few gallons to hit about 93-95 octane whenever i go to the track or do some spirited driving :)

When I track my S14 I advance timing and throw a bit of 100octane in the tank. It seems to pull harder and doesn't knock.

You can buy 100 octane at the pump at certain 76 stations

F = M * A only when the mass of the system is constant. In general it is F = dP/dt, the time rate of change of the momentum. The rocket equation is a good example of a variable mass system, something you should be familiar with from your engineering dynamics class. Jim Nesta - B.S., M.S. in physics and retired college physics instructor.

Performance Difference Between 91 and 93 Octane Fuel
 

I do notice a small difference in engine performance between the 91 octane that I normally put in my 2019 370Z with 12,000 miles and a 93 octane mixture from Sunoco SS 100 race gas and 91 octane pump gas. When I run the 93 octane blended mixture I notice that the engine idles a little more smoothly and more quietly and pulls a little more strongly from a start. With the 91 octane I sometimes get a little pinging and hesitation from a start if I don't feather the clutch correctly, none of that with the 93 octane. The most objective difference that I notice is in my longer term gas mileage indicator, where I get about a 2 mpg increase in mileage with the higher octane. The Sunoco race gas is hard to get here in Northern California and it is expensive, so I normally don't use it. My car's engine and exhaust system are still stock;)

I get Sunoco 93 right out of the pump here in Pa. :tup:

Remember when Sunoco had custom blending at the pump ? You could go from 190 economy to 260 which was two notches above their 240 which was premium . You could select anything in between in increments of 10

Yup, I also remember static timing, points and condensers! :eek:

Octane is not that big of a deal since the ECU made its way into cars.

Oh yeah; the good ol days when GTOs, Roadrunners, Z28s and 442s roamed the streets.

Noop, I remember fuel for under 50ct. a gallon. Self serve pumps just started being installed. Most of them were still full service. Getting the oil checked, added, etc. Front window washed.

That was my first paying job ( except for paper boy ) pumping gas at a full service Sunoco station. The economy grade 190 was going for 19.9ct. a gallon in 1972

My first job was for Boron Oil at a gas station. I remember standing guard at the pumps with a shotgun during the 1973 gas crisis. Had cars lined up around 2 blocks. :rofl2: My gas tank was always full. :tup: