trade 37k, 2010 base for 2013 Scion FR-s with 17k

Chuck33079 · 03-14-2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

Edit: Heres a quote from one of their members...tell me whats wrong.

"Isn't an E92 M3 more of a muscle car? The BRZ should be closer in characteristics to an E30 (a chassis experience)."

Again, it's faster, so it obviously doesn't handle as well. What the FRS/BRZ guys are failing to realize is the fact that any car feels like it handles well when it's moving slowly.

Isn't this thread kind of doing the same thing as the one over there? I've got no problems with the FRS/BRZ. It's pushing automakers to make more lightwieght rwd cars. How is that a bad thing? Would I buy one? Sure, in a few years when you can get a solid used one for under $15k. It would be a fun little daily driver that gets good gas mileage and is fun to drive within the speed limit. Would I buy one new for $27k? Hell no.

Firebase99 · 03-14-2014, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Again, it's faster, so it obviously doesn't handle as well. What the FRS/BRZ guys are failing to realize is the fact that any car feels like it handles well when it's moving slowly.

Isn't this thread kind of doing the same thing as the one over there? I've got no problems with the FRS/BRZ. It's pushing automakers to make more lightwieght rwd cars. How is that a bad thing? Would I buy one? Sure, in a few years when you can get a solid used one for under $15k. It would be a fun little daily driver that gets good gas mileage and is fun to drive within the speed limit. Would I buy one new for $27k? Hell no.

And thats my whole point of contention, the price point is so damn far off for what you get. Its a slower, RWD Civic, nothing more.

Chuck33079 · 03-14-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

And thats my whole point of contention, the price point is so damn far off for what you get. Its a slower, RWD Civic, nothing more.

Things just cost more these days. A Civic SI starts at $23k. So you're paying a $4k premium for rwd and the fact that, while not as nice as the Z the $27k BRZ is a hell of a lot nicer inside than a Civic. It also has a touch more power.

A Miata with similar equipment comes in around the same price, and it's down 30+hp.

In hindsight, the 1994 240sx (a car I think the BRZ is very close to in terms of features and driving dynamics, although it only had 155hp) cost $21,789 MSRP not adjusted for inflation and currency. I don't think the BRZ is as egregiously mispriced as most. I can see why someone would pay $27k for one, I just wouldn't do it.

Firebase99 · 03-14-2014, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Things just cost more these days. A Civic SI starts at $23k. So you're paying a $4k premium for rwd and the fact that, while not as nice as the Z the $27k BRZ is a hell of a lot nicer inside than a Civic. It also has a touch more power.

A Miata with similar equipment comes in around the same price, and it's down 30+hp.

In hindsight, the 1994 240sx (a car I think the BRZ is very close to in terms of features and driving dynamics, although it only had 155hp) cost $21,789 MSRP not adjusted for inflation and currency. I don't think the BRZ is as egregiously mispriced as most. I can see why someone would pay $27k for one, I just wouldn't do it.

Im busy at work and on a call and will google but doesnt the civic si have 200hp and the FRS like 197?

Chuck33079 · 03-14-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

Im busy at work and on a call and will google but doesnt the civic si have 200hp and the FRS like 197?

200 for the FRS/BRZ, 201 for the civic. My mistake thinking it had less. So basically a $4k upcharge for RWD and slightly better amenities. Honestly, $4k would be worth it to me to get the proper drivetrain layout.

Embarassingly enough, the Honda has more torque at a lower rpm. A Honda has more torque.

I still think the FRS would be a bit faster off the line just because of weight transfer.

And $27k is for the better equipped BRZ, right? The Scion is $2k or so cheaper?

kenchan · 03-14-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

And thats my whole point of contention, the price point is so damn far off for what you get. Its a slower, RWD Civic, nothing more.

yah, i hear toyota even dropped subaru due to the mis-calculated drivetrain cost on the brz/frs. was suppose to be like a max $25K otd car. some sort of nasty divorse going on in the background.

jaedub · 03-14-2014, 09:57 AM

Can someone post this thread to the FR-S forum?

Firebase99 · 03-14-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

200 for the FRS/BRZ, 201 for the civic. My mistake thinking it had less. So basically a $4k upcharge for RWD and slightly better amenities. Honestly, $4k would be worth it to me to get the proper drivetrain layout.

Embarassingly enough, the Honda has more torque at a lower rpm. A Honda has more torque.

I still think the FRS would be a bit faster off the line just because of weight transfer.

And $27k is for the better equipped BRZ, right? The Scion is $2k or so cheaper?

Well, you put it like that, i agree. LOL. I still wouldnt buy either let alone an 86 over a Z. Not to thumb my nose up, but the Civic crowd, FRS, Miata stuff, is at least a class level below a Z. Theres nothing WRONG with that, its necessary in fact, so cross shopping an 86 with a 370 is like cross shopping a 370 with a C7. Pointless if you dont/cant pony up.

Firebase99 · 03-14-2014, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaedub

Can someone post this thread to the FR-S forum?

OMG, theyre gonna get their panties in a bunch!!!! I would but ive been banned. Twice.

Firebase99 · 03-14-2014, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

yah, i hear toyota even dropped subaru due to the mis-calculated drivetrain cost on the brz/frs. was suppose to be like a max $25K otd car. some sort of nasty divorse going on in the background.

Ive been hearing that buzz too over the 86 forum, didnt really read too much into it though.

Chuck33079 · 03-14-2014, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

Well, you put it like that, i agree. LOL. I still wouldnt buy either let alone an 86 over a Z. Not to thumb my nose up, but the Civic crowd, FRS, Miata stuff, is at least a class level below a Z. Theres nothing WRONG with that, its necessary in fact, so cross shopping an 86 with a 370 is like cross shopping a 370 with a C7. Pointless if you dont/cant pony up.

Right, these two vehicles have little in common beyond drivetrain layout. The fact that we waste so much time here discussing them is hilarious. If I were in the market for a Civic SI, I'd probably buy a BRZ. If I were in the market for a proper sports car, it wouldn't even make the list of cars to test drive. That doesn't change the fact I'm glad it is made, and I'm glad it sells. It brought back a market segment that had all but disappeared.

A buddy of mine builds show cars for a living, and he has a BRZ he's probably dumped $25k into between the supercharger kit, wheels, tires, interior, etc. It looks fantastic for a show car. It also made 250whp.

I'll bet it's a hoot to drive, but the $/hp curve doesn't work buying one new. A $10k beater in a few years to thrash on track? Yes please.

Redglare · 03-14-2014, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Right, these two vehicles have little in common beyond drivetrain layout. The fact that we waste so much time here discussing them is hilarious. If I were in the market for a Civic SI, I'd probably buy a BRZ. If I were in the market for a proper sports car, it wouldn't even make the list of cars to test drive. That doesn't change the fact I'm glad it is made, and I'm glad it sells. It brought back a market segment that had all but disappeared.

A buddy of mine builds show cars for a living, and he has a BRZ he's probably dumped $25k into between the supercharger kit, wheels, tires, interior, etc. It looks fantastic for a show car. It also made 250whp.

I'll bet it's a hoot to drive, but the $/hp curve doesn't work buying one new. A $10k beater in a few years to thrash on track? Yes please.

I agree with it being a nice used beater or daily, but idk how well with that pan out now that it has DI and apparently a lot of issues w/ engines failing.

Chuck33079 · 03-14-2014, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redglare

I agree with it being a nice used beater or daily, but idk how well with that pan out now that it has DI and apparently a lot of issues w/ engines failing.

Nothing I've read has mentioned anything about "a lot" of motors failing. There's been a few, and the DI FA20 was an all-new motor. There were a lot of VQ37s replaced under warranty in 2009 as well, and I wouldn't shy away from a used 370.

Firebase99 · 03-14-2014, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Right, these two vehicles have little in common beyond drivetrain layout. The fact that we waste so much time here discussing them is hilarious. That doesn't change the fact I'm glad it is made, and I'm glad it sells. It brought back a market segment that had all but disappeared.

A $10k beater in a few years to thrash on track? Yes please.

Again, agreed. We discuss because, well, we like cars, and its fun

Chuck33079 · 03-14-2014, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebase99

Again, agreed. We discuss because, well, we like cars, and its fun

Of course. It's the hate some show that baffles me. I understand why they compare their BRS/FRS to a Z, but I have no idea why we compare down.

Plus, if the BRZ/FRS caused Nissan to start working on the IDX, doesn't that mean moving the Z down-market to compete with the twins is a lot less likely? Shouldn't we be rooting for the twins then?

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03-14-2014, 09:57 AM	#97 (permalink)
jaedub Track Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 906 Drives: 2010 Black 370Z MT Rep Power: 305	Can someone post this thread to the FR-S forum?