Pretty wild

HT Rambler · 09-01-2009, 02:02 PM

Dang bunch of responses since i was here last. I usually don't run the car while filling up but since my wife was in there i just decided to do so. Lesson learned. Also my wife suggested taking the clothes off, only problem is where to put them?? gas was only on the front side of me "as someone stated keep the gas off the balls".
Lots of interesting comments, just wanted to share to help others be more careful and use my laps of judgment to help.
I still thought the gas was supposed to shutoff, that vapor lock thing won't work if you don't have it set correct.

VCuomo · 09-01-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

so your saying by me running my car while filling up is going to blow my car up and kill innocent bystanders? yeah that comment has 0 evidence to back it up. I have been doing that for over a decade with countless vehicles on countless occasions and NOT one Instance of a problem has ever occurred!!! The only reason you see those advisory stickers is because lawyers sat down and said "hey, if we tell them they cant use cell phones they may use something else that has an electrical charge so lets reccomend no electrical devices including the cars be on while filling up." They were covering their A$$E$ its even been scientifically proven that a cell phone cannot blow you up while filling up! This whole hoopla about your going to kill yourself and innocent others is just that HOOPLA it dont mean $hit. Granted smoking is a definite NO NO! I dont smoke so I am fine. If your gonna make comments like this at least back it up! Back on to topic...

Again, you're yelling at the wrong guy. Feel free to risk splashing gas on a hot running exhaust if you wish - a friend of mine calls this "evolution in action". But please make sure your next of kin know that you do not want them to sue if something bad happens.

Oh, and BTW, those "Stop Engine/No Smoking" signs have been up in gas stations for many, many years - long before cell phones were invented and long before lawyers got as litigious as they are today. But I'm sure there is no reason for those signs, it must just be "tradition", right?

polarity · 09-01-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCuomo

Again, you're yelling at the wrong guy. Feel free to risk splashing gas on a hot running exhaust if you wish - a friend of mine calls this "evolution in action". But please make sure your next of kin know that you do not want them to sue if something bad happens.

Oh, and BTW, those "Stop Engine/No Smoking" signs have been up in gas stations for many, many years - long before cell phones were invented and long before lawyers got as litigious as they are today. But I'm sure there is no reason for those signs, it must just be "tradition", right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didnt think the exhaust cooled fast enough to really make a difference in the 2 - 3 min it takes you to fill up.

-William

bullitt5897 · 09-01-2009, 03:35 PM

polarity · 09-01-2009, 03:47 PM

"The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton"

Anyone know the temp of the exhaust pipes while the car is running, and when turned off the rate at which they cool?

For the record, I shut my car off when fueling, but honestly I'm trying to think of a reason. Aside from the static charge causing the fuel to ignite anyone else know of a realistic scenario where a running car would ignite the vapor? It seems to me that if a running car were going to ignite the vapors it would happen anyway as one of the 1000 cars that pull in/out of the gas stations daily would trigger it. If nothing else, it's at least interesting to think about.

-William

FuszNissan · 09-01-2009, 04:07 PM

I have this metal image of Chris Farley doing Maniac at the gas station. Don't know why

polarity · 09-01-2009, 04:26 PM

For what it's worth, I just posted the question to mythbusters to see if they care to tackle that question. I've been doing some searches and so far I haven't found a case where a running car caused an explosion. The #1 cause of gas station fires is static electricity, which can come from any car running or not.

Anyone out there got some facts to back up either side of the debate?

-William

Blown32 · 09-01-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarity

"The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton"

Anyone know the temp of the exhaust pipes while the car is running, and when turned off the rate at which they cool?

For the record, I shut my car off when fueling, but honestly I'm trying to think of a reason. Aside from the static charge causing the fuel to ignite anyone else know of a realistic scenario where a running car would ignite the vapor? It seems to me that if a running car were going to ignite the vapors it would happen anyway as one of the 1000 cars that pull in/out of the gas stations daily would trigger it. If nothing else, it's at least interesting to think about.

-William

It only takes one!

Hi-TecDesigns · 09-01-2009, 04:57 PM

A loose connection sparking (though that could happen with or without the engine running) might be one way. If oil dripping on a hot header can start a fire, well... the flash point of gas is certainly lower than oil, you make the call. Sure, the chances are extremely low of a running engine lighting a fire, but if costs you little to nothing to turn the engine off, you really can't blame anyone who does so. The pump warning may have been around from a time when loose spark plug wires and sparking condensor points were the norm, but I'm not 100% certain all of the dangers have disappeared.

USNA94 · 09-01-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarity

"The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton"

Anyone know the temp of the exhaust pipes while the car is running, and when turned off the rate at which they cool?

For the record, I shut my car off when fueling, but honestly I'm trying to think of a reason. Aside from the static charge causing the fuel to ignite anyone else know of a realistic scenario where a running car would ignite the vapor? It seems to me that if a running car were going to ignite the vapors it would happen anyway as one of the 1000 cars that pull in/out of the gas stations daily would trigger it. If nothing else, it's at least interesting to think about.

-William

The autoignition temperature of gasoline is ~475 degrees F
Exhaust temps can vary between 300 and 600 degrees F but are typically found to be around 500 degrees F when running.
So, it is possible that if gasoline spilled on the hot exhaust pipe it could autoignite. It is also likely that turning off your engine would allow the exhaust pipe to cool the 25-50 degrees below the autoignite temperature fairly rapidly.

USNA94 · 09-01-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarity

I've been doing some searches and so far I haven't found a case where a running car caused an explosion.
-William

Looks like you have proven that the guidance to turn off your engine while refueling has been effective! QED

polarity · 09-01-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNA94

Looks like you have proven that the guidance to turn off your engine while refueling has been effective! QED

Damn fine point there.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNA94

The autoignition temperature of gasoline is ~475 degrees F
Exhaust temps can vary between 300 and 600 degrees F but are typically found to be around 500 degrees F when running.
So, it is possible that if gasoline spilled on the hot exhaust pipe it could autoignite. It is also likely that turning off your engine would allow the exhaust pipe to cool the 25-50 degrees below the autoignite temperature fairly rapidly.

From what I read the reason for the varied temperature of autoignition has to do with many variables. The temp of the gas, how much gas is there (thin film vs someone pouring a bucket of it) so I'm still not sure that gas hitting the tailpipe would cause it to ignite. That being said, I'm still going to turn my car off when fueling, this just seems like a really interesting topic.

It's been my experience that typically a rule is set because of an incident. Like when you see the warning label on a hair dryer telling you not to use it in the bath tub, some idiot actually did that and now they have a label, which leads me to believe that something cause this rule to be born. I'm just curious what it was and how it holds true today. All the same thanks for the info about exhaust temps.

-William

awesomez · 09-02-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

And it's people like you over the years who have forced lawyers into designing everything from cars to children's toys.

Ummm I don't know if you can read but that's what I was stating that I was upset about. You've probably never heard of natural selection so that's what confused you? Look it up.

300ShooTTer · 09-02-2009, 01:49 PM

The "Turn Off Engines" sings have been at gas stations for decades because back in the day it was possible that a running engine could spark a fire that could travel back through the system. Nowadays it is almost impossible with newer vehicles. It's still highly advised that you don't because of freak occurances. The only exception is vehicles with diesel engines. Those can be running and NEVER cause a problem.

EDIT: It's your life though and if you think the extra 20 seconds you save are worth playing a death lotto with really, really, really bad odds of "winning", go for it.

bullitt5897 · 09-02-2009, 03:43 PM

I have been playing the death lotto for years and so far I have been kicking the grim reapers A$$!!! Woot woot!

09-01-2009, 03:35 PM	#34 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	__________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

09-01-2009, 04:07 PM	#36 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	I have this metal image of Chris Farley doing Maniac at the gas station. Don't know why __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

09-01-2009, 04:57 PM	#39 (permalink)
Hi-TecDesigns Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Glenelg, MD Posts: 146 Drives: 370 Rdstr AT7 BkChry Rep Power: 16	A loose connection sparking (though that could happen with or without the engine running) might be one way. If oil dripping on a hot header can start a fire, well... the flash point of gas is certainly lower than oil, you make the call. Sure, the chances are extremely low of a running engine lighting a fire, but if costs you little to nothing to turn the engine off, you really can't blame anyone who does so. The pump warning may have been around from a time when loose spark plug wires and sparking condensor points were the norm, but I'm not 100% certain all of the dangers have disappeared. __________________ http://hi-tecdesigns.com/images/pict...on%20Small.gif 2000 S2000 Brickyard Red Metallic w/ Romanesque Crimson Kandy, custom everything else

09-02-2009, 03:43 PM	#45 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	I have been playing the death lotto for years and so far I have been kicking the grim reapers A$$!!! Woot woot! __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

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09-01-2009, 02:02 PM	#31 (permalink)
HT Rambler Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pearland TX. Posts: 257 Drives: 2009 370z red auto Rep Power: 16	Dang bunch of responses since i was here last. I usually don't run the car while filling up but since my wife was in there i just decided to do so. Lesson learned. Also my wife suggested taking the clothes off, only problem is where to put them?? gas was only on the front side of me "as someone stated keep the gas off the balls". Lots of interesting comments, just wanted to share to help others be more careful and use my laps of judgment to help. I still thought the gas was supposed to shutoff, that vapor lock thing won't work if you don't have it set correct.

09-01-2009, 03:47 PM	#35 (permalink)
polarity Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mississippi Posts: 166 Drives: [2009 370Z] Rep Power: 16	"The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton" Anyone know the temp of the exhaust pipes while the car is running, and when turned off the rate at which they cool? For the record, I shut my car off when fueling, but honestly I'm trying to think of a reason. Aside from the static charge causing the fuel to ignite anyone else know of a realistic scenario where a running car would ignite the vapor? It seems to me that if a running car were going to ignite the vapors it would happen anyway as one of the 1000 cars that pull in/out of the gas stations daily would trigger it. If nothing else, it's at least interesting to think about. -William

09-01-2009, 04:26 PM	#37 (permalink)
polarity Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mississippi Posts: 166 Drives: [2009 370Z] Rep Power: 16	For what it's worth, I just posted the question to mythbusters to see if they care to tackle that question. I've been doing some searches and so far I haven't found a case where a running car caused an explosion. The #1 cause of gas station fires is static electricity, which can come from any car running or not. Anyone out there got some facts to back up either side of the debate? -William

09-02-2009, 01:49 PM	#44 (permalink)
300ShooTTer Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 34 Drives: 2002 M3 Coupe Rep Power: 16	The "Turn Off Engines" sings have been at gas stations for decades because back in the day it was possible that a running engine could spark a fire that could travel back through the system. Nowadays it is almost impossible with newer vehicles. It's still highly advised that you don't because of freak occurances. The only exception is vehicles with diesel engines. Those can be running and NEVER cause a problem. EDIT: It's your life though and if you think the extra 20 seconds you save are worth playing a death lotto with really, really, really bad odds of "winning", go for it.