370Z Sport Package vs Mazdaspeed 3 GT vs S2000 vs Cayman S vs Mazda Rx-8

mook

THE QUEST FOR THE PERFECT CAR.
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WARNING - may be offensive to Z fans, but may be worth a read.

So here it goes for those who care, a review from another racer wanna-be who spent a lot of time researching and test driving in the quest for the perfect car:

After my S2000 got stolen (I miss this car a lot and still think it to be the best all arounder for the money), I was forced to think quick and ended up with 07' Mazdaspeed 3 GT. I was very skeptical because of the front wheel drive, but the car is magically neutral and rotates beautifully. Not to mention the amazing torque and the whistle pop whoosh hiss growl sounds that eggs you on to do something wild all the time.
But the front wheel setup just bothers me because of lack of power play tail happy options, so I have decided to move on. As a result, I went through a few cars lately and thought people would be interested.

The two I actually owned:

07' Mazdaspeed 3 GT - "feels" far faster than any other car of the bunch.
Wheel feel a bit sloppy. But turn in is great and lean is minimal.
Aggressive driving on both straights and corners is encouraged by the car's feel and sounds - wicked smiles a-plenty.
Engine sounds awesome, but the power drops off at the top. Still there is so much torque everywhere in every gear with minimal turbo lag that the whole thing feels like a moderately fast motorcycle.
Brakes feel sloppy and are the worst of the group in terms of pure stomping stopping fun.
Sloppy shifting action is the worst in the group.
Still you forget about all that when you actually drive it - it is that much fun. Relatively light but the weight feels just a tad bit high due to sitting position. Still no affect on stellar handling - just great suspension and probably on of the best rides.
Very fun and feels fastest by far in the group due to plenty torque available almost anywhere. Mazdaspeed outfit delivered a magic pill this time!

S2000 - forget the numbers and listen to this thing at the redline - that's a baby Ferrari. Feels like a soft suspended go-cart due to the lightest weight in the group.
Wheel feel is perfect, but the best was in before 04 models which were much more direct and uncivilized.
Aggressive driving on both straights and corners is encouraged by the car's feel and sounds - wicked smiles a-plenty.
As the speed picks up feels a lot faster than it actually is but can feel a bit sluggish if you are unwilling to rev it up enough, still you always are!
Engine revs very fast and in general just the best in the group in terms of sounds, compression (highest in any production car, same as F1 car), exotic feel and high rev sport motorcycle-like top-end screaming performance.
Breaks are perfect.
The lowest weight of the bunch and it shows. Makes you understand how important the weight is for the fun factor.
Did I mention, I miss this car the most?

The others that I test drove once or more times:

Mazda RX-8
One of the best handling cars in the bunch (and I mean subjective fun factor street feel). The suspension feel is very stiff over bumps but fun wise it is up there with Cayman S (absolute best), S2000 - ( sophisticated, and near perfect but a bit just a bit too soft for my taste which you can mainly feel when you have elevation changes in corners) and Mazdaspeed 3 (I can't believe it's FWD!)
Breaks - one of the best
Composure is Cayman-like like.
Engine .... yawn. Overrated, "who cares", "is this all you got?", "oh that's cute..." stuff.
Driven aggressively it grows on you, but don't lose those revs and don't lose the speed.
Feels slowest of the bunch. S2000 may not be much faster numbers wise but it feels like a rocket in comparison.
Still, I might chose it over 370Z. Well, maybe.... Hold the flames - read on..


370Z - for me was the biggest disappointment of the year. All that hype... and then pfffffffffffft....
Numbers aside, does not feel anywhere as fast as it should be. Since the red line feels like it should be at 6,000 (anything above that makes you feel that you accidentally pushed the self-destruct button), you just don't feel like pushing it. The sound just does not encourage you to rev the living daylights out of it, like in S2000. The engine feels remote and reserved compared to Mazdaspeed 3 swooshing, hissing fire dragon.
It's weird but I did not feel like I want to go fast in this thing.
Handling is respectable but the whole thing feels a little agricultural. You are conscious of the extra weight. The whole thing has the flavor of being a little ponderous and brute forced.
Every other car in the group you can merge with and forget you are driving it, you become part of the machine and start having more and more fun.(Mazdaspeed less so, S2000 the most followed closely by the Cayman). In 370Z you are always conscious of having to drive it. However, I am sure that the Z will grow on you within a year as the engine breaks in and the confidence grows.
Still out of the box, this toy was just the least fun for me, especially jumping into it after getting out of the much livelier Mazdaspeed 3, which is probably the most bang for the buck, FWD aside and having the experience of having owned two S2000 pre and after 04 trim.
Keep in mind that putting go-fast parts into 370Z may not work out because of the whimpy LSD. I believe that the last no BS great sports car Nissan built was 300ZX. Pitty.

08' Cayman S - faster, more practical S2000 for twice the cash that is actually as fast, as it feels. Feels a bit slow in the low end actually, after Mazdaspeed experience. Like S2000 and RX-8 has to be driven quite aggressively to be fully appreciated, although less so since the engine is not exactly weak. Money aside, easily the best car of the bunch overall.
I much prefer the S2000 transmission (Caymans feels a little remote although it has this infaulible perfection feel about it. S2000's gear box is prone to crashing gears once in a while, but it is still more direct and fun if you know how to double clutch and heel-and-toe) and maybe (big maybe actually because I did not spend enough time testing this) the S2000 breaks feel.
Definitely prefer S2000 clutch.
I might also prefer the Mazdaspeed engine (even with no top end and turbo lag). An intercooled and blown S2000 engine with S2000 tranny in a Cayman - now that's perfection!
The handling is just perfect. I did not abuse the car but I felt like I can rotate it any way I want to. Stays so flat and composed - just a wonder.
Weight is not a problem here although much heavier than the s2000.
And hey - with the engine hidden behind the seats there is actually space above it and behind it in the trunk, too - close to 370Z layout.
I confess, I fell in love with Cayman S and will be buying a used one without a doubt!

Bottom line:
if you are tight on cash - I would suggest buying Mazdaspeed 3 GT. Most practical, fastest feeling and going, and one of the most fun. Or consider RX-8 (some great bargains out there, you can pick up a new one for 20k these days at some more desperate dealerships.
) if the FWD just does not do it for you (I considered RX-8 seriously before I drove Cayman S).

if you can spend a bit and don't care about trunk space, I would go for S2000 (if you can get one as they are being discontinued, too expensive to build and priced too low). Most fun value for the money.

if money is available - go for the Cayman S. it's worth every penny.

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How objective is the drivel above? Somewhat. I drive my cars on the street only. I keep it as legal, as I can but am guilty of being less cautious at times.

Skill-wise, by now I taught myself the difference between e-brake tagging, stomping on the go-fast pedal and "proper" drifting. I double clutch (up and down the gears) and heel and toe is second nature to me, I ride crotch rockets and know a few things about using weight transfer.
Still track days are not my thing yet, so numbers don't impress me, as much as the seat of the pants feel and the fun factor.

travisjb

I think you're about to get some pretty negative reactions...

all good cars, but

the s2000 is long in the tooth...
the mazda is a step beneath the rx-8... make that two steps... i'm sure it is fun and does okay on track etc, but not even in the same class... kind of like claiming the chevy cobolt is the one to buy... performance is admirable for the $, but they both look like crap
cayman is a great car... and is more expensive... and is no fun to mod - aftermarket prices are 2-3 times as expensive... and it is really no fun when it breaks, with the engine in the middle replacing an alternator or steering pump is 4-5 hours labor!!!

buy the base sport z, spend $1,400 on a carbonetic diff and be happy

__________________
2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

Pushing_Tin

FWD FTL

/discussion

cab83_750

Mook has 1 post...... hmmmmm!

I am not touching this. Same old stuff, different day!

g96818

all these haters suck balls

__________________
CZP are lying thieves!

Sibze

Like why would you even join a club with a bunch of people that love the car...

Damn man... I am going to join your "I love Barnie" club and talk some sh*t too

joeyz10

mook what are you talking about on how fast the mazdaspeed gt and s2000 are? I owned both of those cars and the s2000 did not impressed me at all! I don't think it was really that fast! Besides Mazdaspeed GT are for kids...cheap car!!! I don't drive cheap cars...

armensti

so what really is going on here is someone thats trying to make themselfs feel better about having a crappy car compared to the 370z and thats about it

M.J.

Wow, I don't know what to say to that.
A Mazda 3?

__________________
Aloha!
Honolulu, Hawaii. '09 370Z White, 6spd Stillen Gen-III Intake/CBE, Alpine Entertainment
Volk G2's 19x9.5F 19x10.5R, Nitto Invo 285x30F & 305x30R

rudi

Zoom zoom

JonGrace959

First of all, from a former mazdaspeed3 owner the MS3 outperforms the rx8 on every level. yes even on the track so i would put it as a step ahead even tho the interior on the rx8 is more refined. second of all the ms3 is a great car. its engine is lively the turbo doesn't have the worst lag but once it gets going it pulls, and pulls hard. and torque is everywhere from low to high (6000-6500) RPM. oh and did i mention it pulls hard and butt dyno feels like it has more power then most cars on road.

The Mazdaspeed 3 is a great reliable ready to go, destroys any civic kind of car, i wish i still owned it. but it is a hot hatch 4 banger teenager turbo. i was there i owned it. im not dissing the car in anyway i love it to death and i cannot compare it to the 370z yet because i have yet to test drive it.

just backin my ms3 up

but from what i have been reading on this forum/seen on youtube/etc your test drive of the 370z was a car that was not broken in fully, i think u should come back to a used 370z possibly. Torque steer does suck on FWD therefore i am excited to hopefully get into a 370z with RWD and a more aggressive styling then a hey look at me im a bright red hatch that is prly being drivin by a teenager pull me over. That was me back when i had it btw.

just my 2 cents on MS3

mook

You guys should see this one from the legendary Japanese Best Motoring series (this is the series that had the King of Drift (the japanese guy, who started the drifting craze by winning grip road races while showing off his drifting skills):
Best Motoring: The 350 Z Shock
It's an hour and a half tape, all about the Z and how it stacks up against the other Japanese cars.
Of course it's an older Z (and 370 is much improved, although 200lb heavier and still over gimmicked), but this tape has Z vs RX-8, S2000, older GT-R, etc.
At some point the racers (and you have to see the tape to understand just how skillfull these guys are on the track and in the mountains) get to talking about which cars are sports cars for people who enjoy the pure driving experience for the fun of it and have the skill to take advantage of the go-fast bits, and which ones are "sporty"
cars for people, who want to feel like they are driving a sports car, but really only need a car to keep them out of trouble while they go fast. Only one car does not make the sports cars list although it was voted as the safest, most stable at speed (even over GT-R) and has plenty of gimmicky cyber-nanny electronics (some of which you cannot turn off) to keep you out of trouble. Guess, which one?
They were also using S2000 as the measuring stick and it gets the most votes for "pure sports car" for race nuts.

They do say that the tuners can make the Z shine, but that's besides the point. How many people actually end up installing the go-fast bits and why not put them on another car instead, why not put those on the S2000, which is by the way 500lb lighter?

As for Mazdaspeed... who cares if it's cheap? It is a VERY fun and competent sports car, light and fast. All these cars are relatively cheap and some use cheap materials and components to make them more affordable (just like the Z's LSD), but who cares? Would you rather drive an expensive Cayenne?

molamann

Damn I should go return my Z.

mook

Actually, I think Z has the most potential in the bunch to become an affordable great sports car, it's already on the way (and 300ZX was my dream car for as long as they made it). I think it helps to talk about these things for people who are in the market for one and I am sure many come to this site. I am not suggesting that Nissan actually reads anything posted here but somehow summarizing and discussing all the things that are wrong with this most promising but still raw car may influence things in the long run.

The posh "sporty" car club has plenty of heavy gimmicky but very fast bloaters floating around on the highways. Most cars are getting heavier every year (mostly due to safety regulations of course).

The drivers club needs to be clear about what they do and do not want. Competent ability (even if dangerous in inexperienced hands) over hand-holding. Light weight over gimmicks. Envolvement over automation. Fun over numbers.

It's nice when you look down at a speedo and say "wow, this car is fast!", but I would rather go half as fast thinking "damn, this is fun!". If I can have both - sure, why not, but keep your priorities straight. Bragging rights should not be more important than enjoyment of driving.
These days they have expensive luxury cars that weigh as much as a truck but will keep pace with most "sport" cars on the race track and blow the doors of them on a straight line. Once in a while they build trucks and SUV's that will come damn close to that, too. The numbers are there, but fun factor is not.

Look at the motorcycles. They perfectly and clearly have a "sport" and "super-sport" bike category and those are night and day compared to the "sport cruisers": deadly serious, dangerous, uncomfortable, uncompromising, light, adrenaline machines which are so much fun that the smile barely fits in the helmet vs safe, heavy, plenty fast (or faster) and very comfortable mile gobbling chill machines.

mook

You don't drive cheap cars for kids, but you buy them? =)
Mazdaspeed came out recently... when did you enter the expensive car adult club?

Sorry, could not resist - I am sure you meant something else.