How Dumb I Was Again. Wasting Money on NA Parts
 

I got to thinking as I did before with my 350Z and now my 370Z.Why do I and we waste money on our NA platforms that only net HP levels that are really not felt (IMO). To spend all this money to only be half way to a real HP gain in the world of FI.

NA Setup

Headers-$700-1200
CAI $400-500
TP's/ HFC's $300-600
Exhaust $800-1800
Tune $600
Installation $0-1600+

Total $2800-6300

This is what is could cost depending on actual products and experience of installing such products. Now things like the tune and maybe the exhaust are a wash (can run stock on FI kit) for you would have to have this for a FI kit anyways. Not to play favorites, but GTM's new MHI TT kit (turn key) is only $5600. So if you eliminate the headers, CAI, TP's/ HFC's, and maybe exhaust (cause not a must have at first) you come out to 50 to 75% the cost of a FI kit. That's not including the install obviously. But the tune is included in a turn key kit.

Just some food for thought. I know I have wasted plenty on NA setup's just to go FI twice. Never again in the future.

Seems to me that if your primary reason for what your doing is HP then you have a valid point.

I think there are a couple reasons.

One is that adding FI to a car is not something that everyone is willing (or even able) to complete/deal with. You've got mechanical inclination and a place to work on your car, which is not something everyone has.

Second is the daily livability of a car with added FI.

Third is the amount of time over which NA mods are often applied. Somebody may dump $10K into their car, but do it over a year. It's a bigger psychological jump to do it all at once.

Finally, there are a lot of "other" costs that come with FI that push the price tag higher (nevermind the fact that FI just whets your appetite for more power and you're looking for more ways to make enough money to do whatever comes next).

Yes. There are many ways to look at.

My thoughts exactly

I don't know how to answer your question because I wasted a lot of money on cars in general

i only did very minor things on my car especially for engine performance as it's fast enough for street and i didn't want extra drone.

i dont feel my car is slow at all for how i drive my car...spirited weekend fun, and QD afterwards. :p

If you really need all that hp why not buy a GT500 or a Vette? You get 650hp right out of the box. You can pick up a used 2013 Shelby for the price of a $45,000 NISMO plus the $10K FI kit. And the Shelby is designed to handle all that HP. You wouldn't be pushing the engine to near or beyond it's design limits since it's already designed from the ground up to run built-in FI.

2013 Ford Shelby GT500 For Sale - CarGurus

You're correct on NA mods being a waste if you go FI, but your math leaves out a lot of supporting mods that you should be buying if you're going FI.

This thread is more about myself and little food
for thought for others to think wisely. Learn from others.

Oh please.. NA on this car where people want dyno for each exhaust to compare with other for +/- 1-2 WHP? Lol

I wasted money too bro. lesson learned HAha!

Even if you go FI, aren't you still going to get a different CBE and maybe HFC, headers as well? As for not feeling the difference with NA mods, you can sure see the difference on the 1/4 mile times posted on this forum.

Once I started to think about NA parts I knew I wasn't going to be happy with +/- 50hp. I would have spent a lot of money because I can't do any installation much less a tune. I've had an 11 second street car before so I'm desensitized when it comes to quick cars. I knew going in that the Z was not going to impress in a straight line and after a little bit of thought and the OK with the wife I now have GTM's MHI paid for and hopefully on the way soon. I'm just not going to be happy unless the car does at least 115-120mph and the only way to do that is with FI.

The GT500 is just like the GT but with more power and the GT was unimpressive. Once the MHI goes on I'll put some suspension goodies on and the car should be a sexy well-rounded rocket. My wife might be getting a job soon and could be making as much as I am or more and if so I'll be looking at the 2014 Stingray about this time next year.

Ew Mustang...make it go away. :p

I wasted money for the beautiful sound it (VQ) makes with the parts you listed...going fast is all relative...

:bowrofl:

I still take naturally aspirated over turbo for daily driving purposes anyday. If you are seriosuly tracking then turbo if not dont waste your time. :driving:

And that is why I envy a V8 platform like the C6 Z06. Install an aggressive cam, headers, cbe, and a tune and you're easily making an extra 100+whp.

Yeah, NA mods for our cars are pretty worthless. Our engines are about maxed out peformance wise from the factory. And with really no selection of aftermarket cams we are pretty much limited to about 40whp with full bolt ons and tune.

Also if it has supporting mods the extra 40 is like night and day!

I couldn't feel any difference after I did full bolt ons and tune compared to stock. Really didn't feel any faster(louder yes!).... Now what made a huge difference was when I shed about 300lbs off the car. Then it was like night and day.

Weight helps a lot. To get the best feel per say is to reduce weight and add power all at the same time. But if done gradually you will never know.

And please don't bring this thread to where were comparing other cars. Z talk only.

^^^
your butt dyno was broke at the time lol...+1 300lbs less is a big deal, my best mod was removing 353lbs.

Also SPOHN with how irrational modding is, can't fault yourself. The average Z guy doesn't have the initial investment for a kit off the back nor the patience to wait....lol

I don't know about all of that. I really enjoy daily driving my FI Z. I don't think I'd ever refer to it as a waste of time.

You mean 300lbs after the decreases you likely saw with the bolt-on.

And I'm curious why you have to 'feel' the difference. 40hp (if we're talking to the wheels) is 15% (if I use 250hp to the wheels as stock) increase. You also shed some weight in the process.

I find it hard to believe that the combination didn't have some kind of effect. I've always heard that racing, be it drag or track, is about shaving tenths off a time...that would do it.

SPOHN I'm curious what's behind your question. Are you happy with your car with FI? I'm trying to understand why after going FI with one you didn't go right to it with the next. ...great thread by the way.

My current car is waiting to be FI. My old Z even though it was boosted (360whp single turbo) it wasn't great being those motors were not strong and you couldn't push them like now. I didn't go right into it at first cause I didn't know what direction I was headed. Then I went the track car route and was tied up with that. Then the push for power came.

I just read my Autoweek about this one . Good choice.

I spent a good $5k on NA mods, got butt hurt, and went a bit overboard on my counterattack. I decided to try and reuse as much as my NA mods already installed, hence my choice of supercharger(s) kit. I could have made money back on parts, but who likes selling parts? Could have been different if My O2 sensors were extended correctly.

I'm 50/50 on Spohn's assessment. Gain 50whp for about $5-6k on just hp and cooling mods. But as noted here earlier, supporting mods for FI, and for many, install, still looking at $10k. Math still says FI is the bang for buck choice, but I've never seen an FI budget stay within budget. Mine was blown by 50%... GTM and their MHI kits... they may get people to add $3-5k in upgrades for all those kits they sold. Reminds me of a dealer selling a car for cheap to get you in their service dept and rape u there lol.

True. You can still run a TT kit on stock exhaust. But most will not. Most also already have. With GTM's kit the big a$$ oil pan (+3qt) you might not need a oil cooler if your not tracking. A boost gauge is a good bet. But other than that not much.

Since youre using the oil to cool the turbos, i would run a cooler regardless of the extra capacity in the pan. Plus a wideband, eventually a clutch, boost controller, radiator's not a bad idea... It snowballs quickly. It's still the best $/hp route to go, but it adds up in a hurry. I never considered NA mods. Sam was getting my turbo kit together when I was driving the car home from the dealer.

I figured having a external cooler works better than all that oil being self contained all the time. Wideband pretty cheap. But you are right. It does snowballs. But you either going to have it or not. Not much middle of the road with money.

Like a boss!:tup:

I agree that NA is a waste of money IF you want a lot of power. I learned the hard way. My build with support mods was $5500. Honestly that's what most spend to go full NA and tune.

I don't think everyone's after 400+ hp, and for those who aren't, cai and exhaust can make the car sound better while they enjoy some 300ish hp thrills

i dont mind spending NA parts since my z is a daily driver, reliability is important to me

Having chased hp in other, more "hp friendly" platforms, I didn't buy my Z to throw a ton of cash at it to chase power. CBE for better sound, springs for a better stance, oil cooler for some peace of mind, and K&N for a little better breathing and I'm done. There are too many other cars out there if you just want brute power. This car isn't it.....

I am so glad some people here speak for truth. The truth that I've learned from my old g35 NA build. I saw people post here how day and night (power) different after installing a CAI or a CBE or HFC/TP. Whenever I see these I just sat back and LMAO. Coz I know it's not true. I had almost all, but nothing feel faster then my stock setup. LOL. If you can't beat a M3 stock, you still can't beat it after all the bolt-ons.

That being said, I am still investing money on NA mods. But it's more for the sound and look. Not saying NA mods are completely wasting of money. But if you are purely looking for the big/noticeable power bump and willing to sacrifice the factory reliability and the life of your motor, then I'd say save the money go for FI.

my G only sports a stillen intake. exhuast sounds perfect stock.

all i have is a fast intentions carbon fiber 12" CBE and swift springs + plus a good driver = not to shabby.

My 370 has enough power to put me in jail with the few upgrades I have done. No need to spend more money.

That's so true! The g35 stock exhaust sounds so sweet!

It is simply the normal thing to do when your young or unknowledgeable about what works and the real benefits from most aftermarket parts.

If you look at most of the high end sports cars below $100K (not exotics) you will see that most of the cars are bone stock except for the occasional tire and wheel change.

The best spent money on your new car is spent on things to protect your investment at the time of resale, clear bra, tint , good mats ,( mud flaps if they are available for sedans, trucks etc.)

Remember at trade or resale time buyers shy away from highly modded cars, and all your thousands of dollars of mods do nothing to add value to your car at the point of resale.

So in the end all you have is a lot of wasted dollars, so if your intent is to race the car or track it then go all out , but for average street use, bone stock is fine.