Nismo or boss ?

DCNISMO · 05-29-2013, 10:20 AM

Grand Am plays LOTS of games with weight, weight positions, throttle bodies, brakes, and other things to make the cars be fairly equal on the track. Soon as one team gets a clear advantage they make them add weight, restrict airflow, limit tire size...yadayada....Thats why the Continental series race is a crash fest...they get all bunched up and the only way to get position is to barge your way in or bump the next guy off the line. Its pretty fun to watch in person actually.

Tazicon · 05-29-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

That last picture is pretty telling. You can see the porsches and 370z are about to lap all of the Mustangs.

Isn't there only one Z in that series and they are new to it? lol

Red__Zed · 05-29-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazicon

Isn't there only one Z in that series and they are new to it? lol

pls don't interrupt my joking

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

Did you miss the point where I said with ALL things being equal? Equal means the same doesn't it? So why bring a 240SX and a 5.0 Mustang? Are they the same?

OMG you are choosing to be really dumb... This is just baffling... READ SON!!!! READ!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF YOUR MOTHER AND I, L2READ!!!!! Both what you wrote and what I wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with IRS will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car with a solid rear axle.

You want all things equal, EXCEPT THE SUSPENSION. Look at your sentence structure son. You stop the series when you used and. In all honesty, there should probably be a semi-colon where you start saying "a car....herp derp". On top of that, SRA and IRS and NOT equal. Not in any sense of the word so why are you trying to make them equal? If they WERE equal, and everything else is equal then guess what.....

THEY WILL PERFORM THE SAME BECAUSE ITS ALL EQUAL!!!!!

IRS would NOT outperform SRA in the scenario you think you are saying because by being equal, they inherently are equally capable.

So anyway, back to what I was saying and the point I made which is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

How effectively a vehicle puts power down depends entirely on the setup and what that setup is designed to do.

You can't really boil this down much more. However, since you don't understand this sentence then read that quote over and over and over until something finally clicks....or, just look at the pictures and the handful of words I typed. They tell a story...kind of like a picture book. The same story that is boiled down into the quote above.

Please..... take a look, it's in a book,

(That last part is to sung like Oprah)

EDIT: Had fun, I'm out. Need food and to do a bit of work.

Tazicon · 05-29-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

pls don't interrupt my joking

Sorry..................

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 10:27 AM

Grand Am is a horrible example of which platform is faster.

As mentioned before, they play huge games with weight, restrictors, RPM limits, tires, so on and so on. I mean ****, you have the exact same cars in more than one class... that should tell you something.

Fact is, there has only ever been one Z at a time in Grand Am (Don't think AM and Doran overlapped anyway) and partly because of that, a Z has never won. I don't think one has even podiumed.

All it takes is one turn of bad luck and an entire platform is out of the running for the race (or entire weekend). Add to that Nissan being fickle about sponsoring races for the teams and, well... yeah.

Anyway point is, Grand Am is an awful example of which platform is faster, no matter what you're comparing.

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Grand Am is a horrible example of which platform is faster.

As mentioned before, they play huge games with weight, restrictors, RPM limits, tires, so on and so on. I mean ****, you have the exact same cars in more than one class... that should tell you something.

Fact is, there has only ever been one Z at a time in Grand Am (Don't think AM and Doran overlapped anyway) and partly because of that, a Z has never won. I don't think one has even podiumed.

All it takes is one turn of bad luck and an entire platform is out of the running for the race (or entire weekend). Add to that Nissan being fickle about sponsoring races for the teams and, well... yeah.

Anyway point is, Grand Am is an awful example of which platform is faster, no matter what you're comparing.

But but....equal....things....equal and....IRSSRAIRSSRAUSAUSAUSA

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Grand Am is a horrible example of which platform is faster.

As mentioned before, they play huge games with weight, restrictors, RPM limits, tires, so on and so on. I mean ****, you have the exact same cars in more than one class... that should tell you something.

Fact is, there has only ever been one Z at a time in Grand Am (Don't think AM and Doran overlapped anyway) and partly because of that, a Z has never won. I don't think one has even podiumed.

All it takes is one turn of bad luck and an entire platform is out of the running for the race (or entire weekend). Add to that Nissan being fickle about sponsoring races for the teams and, well... yeah.

Anyway point is, Grand Am is an awful example of which platform is faster, no matter what you're comparing.

But when all things are equal...

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:36 AM

This thread...

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

But but....equal....things....equal and....IRSSRAIRSSRAUSAUSAUSA

Only racing series that are really "equalish" without being literally spec chassis are things like V8 Supercars, Trans Am, DTM and maybe a handful of others around the world.

Everything else, someone's gettin the short end of the stick for one reason or another.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 10:36 AM

Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really?

Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels.

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is equally as good as an independently controlled...

Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

... some stuff ...

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really?

Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels.

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is better than independently controlled...

Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.

Who the hell are you even arguing with? No one ever said IRS wasn't a better system. The whole point of the discussion was to dispel the notion that just because the Mustang uses a solid axle doesn't mean it CAN'T handle, which many assume.

Meanwhile, you're over here thinking we're trying to say it's a great system that everyone should use.

C'mon, man!

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

So many people in this thread have missed the mark. It was only ever about ONE thing and it has been blown into an epic mess thanks to a few that can't quite get what the discussion is about.

Oh well, it's all good for a lark.

Chuck33079 · 05-29-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint.

I was under the impression that a live axle was preferable for drag racing.

05-29-2013, 10:27 AM	#186 (permalink)
Sh0velMan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth Posts: 3,349 Drives: Noisily. Rep Power: 20	Grand Am is a horrible example of which platform is faster. As mentioned before, they play huge games with weight, restrictors, RPM limits, tires, so on and so on. I mean **, you have the exact same cars in more than one class... that should tell you something. Fact is, there has only ever been one Z at a time in Grand Am (Don't think AM and Doran overlapped anyway) and partly because of that, a Z has never won. I don't think one has even podiumed. All it takes is one turn of bad luck and an entire platform is out of the running for the race (or entire weekend). Add to that Nissan being fickle about sponsoring races for the teams and, well... yeah. Anyway point is, Grand Am is an awful example of which platform is faster, no matter what you're comparing. __________________ Buy My Car!** \| Build Thread

05-29-2013, 10:36 AM	#189 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	This thread... __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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05-29-2013, 10:20 AM	#181 (permalink)
DCNISMO Track Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: washington dc Posts: 995 Drives: Nismo Z Rep Power: 178	Grand Am plays LOTS of games with weight, weight positions, throttle bodies, brakes, and other things to make the cars be fairly equal on the track. Soon as one team gets a clear advantage they make them add weight, restrict airflow, limit tire size...yadayada....Thats why the Continental series race is a crash fest...they get all bunched up and the only way to get position is to barge your way in or bump the next guy off the line. Its pretty fun to watch in person actually.

05-29-2013, 10:36 AM	#191 (permalink)
Caustic Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 243 Drives: '02 Acura NSX Rep Power: 13	Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really? Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels. The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact. The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is equally as good as an independently controlled... Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.