Nismo or boss ?

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 10:36 AM

Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really?

Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels.

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is equally as good as an independently controlled...

Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

... some stuff ...

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

So many people in this thread have missed the mark. It was only ever about ONE thing and it has been blown into an epic mess thanks to a few that can't quite get what the discussion is about.

Oh well, it's all good for a lark.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really?

Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels.

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is better than independently controlled...

Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.

Who the hell are you even arguing with? No one ever said IRS wasn't a better system. The whole point of the discussion was to dispel the notion that just because the Mustang uses a solid axle doesn't mean it CAN'T handle, which many assume.

Meanwhile, you're over here thinking we're trying to say it's a great system that everyone should use.

C'mon, man!

Chuck33079 · 05-29-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint.

I was under the impression that a live axle was preferable for drag racing.

Tazicon · 05-29-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I was under the impression that a live axle was preferable for drag racing.

And rock crawling

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazicon

And rock crawling

And being cheap, compact and efficient.

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The bottom line, which everyone here seems to totally fail at understanding... is...

It. Doesn't. Matter.

Unless everyone here is a race car driver, most aren't capable skill wise to push either car to its controlable limit.

That is what most of the SRA people are saying... SRA's aren't a big deal... and if it is factoring into your forumla on what you plan on buying, you have either maximised the potiential of one in favor of using the other, or you have no idea what you are buying.

The only car that will be of of equal comparison to a 370z is if you stuff a live axle into a 370z...

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StangerGT

The bottom line, which everyone here seems to totally fail at understanding... is...

It. Doesn't. Matter.

Unless everyone here is a race car driver, most aren't capable skill wise to push either car to its controlable limit.

That is what most of the SRA people are saying... SRA's aren't a big deal... and if it is factoring into your forumla on what you plan on buying, you have either maximised the potiential of one in favor of using the other, or you have no idea what you are buying.

The only car that will be of of equal comparison to a 370z is if you stuff a live axle into a 370z...

Don't you tempt me!

haha jk.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I was under the impression that a live axle was preferable for drag racing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazicon

And rock crawling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

And being cheap, compact and efficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StangerGT

The bottom line, which everyone here seems to totally fail at understanding... is...

It. Doesn't. Matter.

Unless everyone here is a race car driver, most aren't capable skill wise to push either car to its controlable limit.

That is what most of the SRA people are saying... SRA's aren't a big deal... and if it is factoring into your forumla on what you plan on buying, you have either maximised the potiential of one in favor of using the other, or you have no idea what you are buying.

The only car that will be of of equal comparison to a 370z is if you stuff a live axle into a 370z...

I guess if it doesn't matter, every sports car in the world should have a live rear axle. And they should all rock climb.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

I guess if it doesn't matter, every sports car in the world should have a live rear axle. And they should all rock climb.

There you go again.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

There you go again.

YUP! I went and said it!

Rock climbing for all!

Chuck33079 · 05-29-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

I guess if it doesn't matter, every sports car in the world should have a live rear axle. And they should all rock climb.

I'll agree that the rock crawling comment was pushing it a bit, but drag racing is an activity many people enjoy with sports cars. In that arena, the live axle still outperforms the IRS. I don't think anyone was saying anything close to the hyperbole you just posted. I prefer an IRS, but I can admit that there's at least one form of motorsports that is dominated by live axle vehicles.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I'll agree that the rock crawling comment was pushing it a bit, but drag racing is an activity many people enjoy with sports cars. In that arena, the live axle still outperforms the IRS. I don't think anyone was saying anything close to the hyperbole you just posted. I prefer an IRS, but I can admit that there's at least one form of motorsports that is dominated by live axle vehicles.

The problem I had is the consistent insistence that a live axle is just as good as an IRS to make a car perform well at a track. And then when that couldn't be argued, the insistence it doesn't matter. Of course it matters. That is why car manufactures spend time and money to develop these systems. That's why the cars in most track racing have it. But the live axle guys have dug their feet in because they can't deal with the fact that their cars are using inferior tech. The Mustang, one of the most recognizable marques around the world, has made forays into IRS (bad or otherwise) just for this very reason. And I'm the one that should let it go? Ford sure isn't, their next gen will offer IRS.

If you start putting other factors in there like good/bad setups, other applications, of course it muddies the whole argument, and avoids the original point.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The problem I had is the consistent insistence that a live axle is just as good as an IRS to make a car perform well at a track. And then when that couldn't be argued, the insistence it doesn't matter. Of course it matters. That is why car manufactures spend time and money to develop these systems. That's why the cars in most track racing have it. But the live axle guys have dug their feet in because they can't deal with the fact that their cars are using inferior tech. The Mustang, one of the most recognizable marques around the world, has made forays into IRS (bad or otherwise) just for this very reason. And I'm the one that should let it go? Ford sure isn't, their next gen will offer IRS.

If you start putting other factors in there like good/bad setups, other applications, of course it muddies the whole argument, and avoids the original point.

You're still missing the point. All this discussion has ever been about is to dispel the notion that the Mustang CAN'T handle because it is equipped with a live axle, when time and time again it has proved it CAN.

No one is trying to argue that the live axle is just as good or better than the IRS. All we're doing is shooting down the uninformed that assume that just because a car has an SRA means it can't handle, and that just because a car has IRS it can (and doesn't need brakes, apparently.)

We have in fact AGREED with you that IRS is a superior design (when done correctly, of course), but for whatever reason you choose to ignore this.

"IRS is the superior design."

"I know."

"How dare you say SRA is better! IRS is superior!"

"I know."

"WHAT?!?!! How dare you disagree with me!!!"

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Crashing like a boss	ChrisSlicks	Other Vehicles	16	07-12-2012 04:33 PM
How to procrastinate like a boss	jaedub	Nissan 370Z Photos / Spyshots / Video / Media Gallery	21	09-10-2011 07:52 PM
My wife is the boss.....	o0javi0o	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	27	06-02-2011 09:52 AM
Who's the Boss	cfweber	Other Vehicles	34	04-07-2011 06:56 PM

05-29-2013, 10:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Caustic Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 243 Drives: '02 Acura NSX Rep Power: 13	Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really? Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels. The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact. The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is equally as good as an independently controlled... Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.