Nismo or boss ?

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 02:03 PM

If you like pina coladas...

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazicon

Sounds like the same argument for a SRA? Is it an older concept? Yes. Does it still work well? Yes. Has technology passsed this point? Yes. But do some still have the knowledge to make it work? Yes.

Can most of the people here really understand/appreciate the difference? No. Will it matter to them outside of a spec sheet? No. Is it low hanging fruit which one may use to say why the Z is better? Yes. Does this really matter? No. Is most of this crap just flamming misinformation? Yes.

/argument please?

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

Maybe you are the one that is talking about stuff no one even brought up in the manner you seem to think. First off, I am not arguing against Billy in the slightest. Billy owns an NSX, is an active member of NSXPrime, and has contributed to our community immensely. He is a great source of information because he is so connected to the car community.

Cool story bro, thanks for the monologue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

I was pointing out in the quote that m4a1mustang used from Billy about live axle, that Billy was speaking from a professional perspective. I went further to say that for the rest of us, a difference between the two systems (SRA, IRS) is consistency. A professional driver masks the weaknesses of the live axle, where people like us have to fight against it.

This is a correct statement to an extent and I do not disagree with you here, nor in your first post. Professional drivers can bring out the most of any vehicle because they have the skill level to do so.

But making blanket statements like IRS > SRA or:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

Or just go for a car with with an IRS suspension which everyone in this thread has already admitted is the superior solution.

is categorically wrong no matter how you try massage the message. Don't believe me? Go back to picture story where I talked about a 20+ year old IRS design and both the IRS design of the 370z and the SRA design of the Boss 302. The IRS design of the 240sx is less capable than both the 370z and the Boss 302. Period. There is no disputing that. I even explicitly stated the point of the picture just because you can't leave stuff like that to chance and rogue interpretations.

Here is another example. Take the old Mustang IRS setup. It was bad. So they abandoned it and went back to the SRA setup. Lots of reasons for it being bad, but doesn't change the fact that it was bad. Does that make SRA > IRS? For that instance, on that car, on that chasis, considering the car as a whole...absolutely. Does that make SRA > IRS in general, as a blanket statement or rule? Nope. Just as Red mentioned:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

IRS is a superior framework that allows for superior designs...it doesn't guarantee them.

Notice the caveat. It is important.

If people want to make blanket statements about suspensions it should at least be:

IRS should be better than SRA assuming it was well developed. If people were making THAT point, then there is nothing left to say really.

But they aren't, which is the problem. And because they aren't, it is misinformation.

JohnYu · 05-29-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Just remember, no brakes. Don't ever use your brakes. You have IRS. It will save you.

No brakes ? What ? Don't really understand ..

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnYu

No brakes ? What ? Don't really understand ..

It was a joke bro. Use your brakes.

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

If you like pina coladas...

and getting caught in the rain....

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnYu

No brakes ? What ? Don't really understand ..

I don't either. I just know it is one of those pedals down there but because I don't use it and don't watch me feet, I couldn't tell you which one it is.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

Cool story bro, thanks for the monologue.

This is a correct statement to an extent and I do not disagree with you here, nor in your first post. Professional drivers can bring out the most of any vehicle because they have the skill level to do so.

But making blanket statements like IRS > SRA or:

is categorically wrong no matter how you try massage the message. Don't believe me? Go back to picture story where I talked about a 20+ year old IRS design and both the IRS design of the 370z and the SRA design of the Boss 302. The IRS design of the 240sx is less capable than both the 370z and the Boss 302. Period. There is no disputing that. I even explicitly stated the point of the picture just because you can't leave stuff like that to chance and rogue interpretations.

Here is another example. Take the old Mustang IRS setup. It was bad. So they abandoned it and went back to the SRA setup. Lots of reasons for it being bad, but doesn't change the fact that it was bad. Does that make SRA > IRS? For that instance, on that car, on that chasis, considering the car as a whole...absolutely. Does that make SRA > IRS in general, as a blanket statement or rule? Nope. Just as Red mentioned:

Notice the caveat. It is important.

If people want to make blanket statements about suspensions it should at least be:

IRS should be better than SRA assuming it was well developed. If people were making THAT point, then there is nothing left to say really.

But they aren't, which is the problem. And because they aren't, it is misinformation.

LOL, at your beginning sarcastic comment.

Saying IRS is better than live axle in a general track setting is not categorically wrong. Physics and engineering says it is better.

Saying a badly setup IRS vs a well setup live axle is whole different argument, and also a useless one.

zeeder · 05-29-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

It was a joke bro. Use your brakes.

That said, it can be fun to set the cruise on a curvy road you know well. Start slowish and work up the speed. It can be surprisingly disconcerting, and fun, trying not to use the brakes!

XiP · 05-29-2013, 02:20 PM

I smell BBQ

chrischhorn · 05-29-2013, 02:23 PM

Happy hump day everyone!

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

LOL, at your beginning sarcastic comment.

Saying IRS is better than live axle in a general track setting is not categorically wrong. Physics and engineering says it is better.

Saying a badly setup IRS vs a well setup live axle is whole different argument, and also a useless one.

Don't know if you are disagreeing with anything, so I am just assuming you are not.

Tazicon · 05-29-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StangerGT

Can most of the people here really understand/appreciate the difference? No. Will it matter to them outside of a spec sheet? No. Is it low hanging fruit which one may use to say why the Z is better? Yes. Does this really matter? No. Is most of this crap just flamming misinformation? Yes.

/argument please?

There was a reason I deleted the comment but you responded too fast.

I agree /argument please. FYI I wasn't agruing just making a point.

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazicon

There was a reason I deleted the comment but you responded too fast.

I agree /argument please. FYI I wasn't agruing just making a point.

oh I know... and it wasnt in disagreement... just wanted to add.

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

If you like pina coladas...

And getting caught in the rain?

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

Don't know if you are disagreeing with anything, so I am just assuming you are not.

Haha.

05-29-2013, 02:03 PM	#286 (permalink)
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05-29-2013, 02:20 PM	#294 (permalink)
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05-29-2013, 02:23 PM	#295 (permalink)
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