2011 370z, 400 hp..... hybrid?
 

article is posted further down on this page :)

Post the link without the URL and someone else will hyperlink it.

any info...?

I got the link to work just fine... However, it goes against AK's rules of linking to other 370z forums... :shakes head:

oh :( removed >_>

Even if this were true, I doubt that Nissan could crank out a hybrid 370Z faster than Toyota can make the FT-HS concept car reality. I'd love to see the price range, though. Imho Nissan can't afford to have another 60k+ sports car in its lineup.

i read about it. i doubt they will be able to do that.

I was hoping to post this in the last Hybrid thread but it got locked right away. I think this was posted on here before somewhere.

I always laugh at Hybrids but this sounds pretty amazing. Another 100 HP plus the torque of an electric motor and this thing will be a rocket. Don't forget you won't be lugging around lead acid batteries - Lithium battery technologies have come a LONG way..... if this does what its explaining in the article it will be revolutionary - a milestone in automotive history. Pretty cool if its on the Z platform too!

I edited the link out but here is the info...

The Hybrid Nissan 370Z sports car will be powered by this revolutionary Lithium Ion battery pack to be produced by a Nissan-NEC partnership. This battery pack has nearly twice the energy density of the battery packs used by current hybrids. Look carefuly at the front bumper, there is a Hybrid emblem on it. Is it real or is it photoshop?

According to Japanese sources, Nissan is working on a Hybrid power system for larger high performance cars and will introduce it on the new Fuga Sedan (our Infiniti M35/M45) which is due in the 2009 as a 2010 model. This hybrid system will be offered in the new Fuga one year after its launch as a 2011 model. Nissan is also planning to use this system for a hybrid version of the 370Z sports car a little later in 2011. This will make the 370Z the first high performance hybrid sports car on the market. Infinti is also looking to enter the hybrid sports car market with a car called the Essence which is currently a concept car.

Infiniti Essence:

http://www.infinitiusa.com/about/future-vehicles.html

http://motoiq.smugmug.com/photos/548276738_R9ra2-M.jpg
The Nissan 370Z hybrid will probably use a configuration shown in the first picture

No longer content to use a borrowed system adopted from Toyota as in the hybrid Altima, Nissan has been hard at work to develop its own system to leapfrog Toyota's technology. The Nissan 370Z hybrid will probably be powered by a high tech version of the VQ37VHR engine displacing 3.7 liters with direct injection, CVTC control of both the intake and exhaust cams and VVEL of the intake cam combined with a new super efficient electric motor. It is rumored that the hybrid drive system will use two separate clutches, one between the internal combustion engine and the electric motor with another clutch between the electric motor and the drive wheels. This system will optimize performance and efficiency depending on operating conditions. The new hybrid system will also feature a full plug in EV mode for city type conditions where charging stations are available to maximize economy.

http://motoiq.smugmug.com/photos/548276723_Ti2Rm-M.jpg

Nissan arraigned the positions of the electromagnetic coils and permanent magnets in a novel pancake like arrangement to maximize the area of magnetic flux, giving it a higher moment and more surface area to create more torque in a thin compact package. The 3D motor is shown on the left vs a conventional electric motor. Note the far greater area of flux and the greater outward distribution of it. This gives a greater lever arm to move the armature

The transmission is allegedly a modified version of the 370Z's seven speed automatic transmission with an electric motor in the position where the torque converter currently resides. One electronically controlled clutch is located behind the electric motor and another in front of it allowing the VQ engine to run coupled to the electric motor or decoupled with the car running purely on electrical power. The revolutionary electric motor that could help power the hybrid 370Z is called the 3D motor. The 3D motor is developed by a joint effort by Nissan and Fujitsu General. It is a slim disk shaped motor that has twice the torque of a conventional motor the same size and weight. The motor gets its name from Nissan's 3D analysis of the magnetic fields of the configuration which enabled optimized placement of the electromagnetic coils and permanent magnets in the periphery around the armature. The electric motors disk-like layout makes the torque converter replacement layout very logical.

http://motoiq.smugmug.com/photos/548276727_xc5Lh-M.jpg
Due to the arrangement of the coils and magnets the new 3D motor as shown on the left has a much larger area of magnetic flux than a conventional motor shown on right

The possible ability to run the electric motor in series with the internal combustion engine means that this platform has some serious potential for outstanding straight line performance despite the fact that the batteries might add several hundred pounds to the weight of the car. The reason is that electric motors can make 100% of their torque from a standstill. The potential ability for the hybrid controls to add the electric motors estimated 100 lb/ft of torque instantly at any desired point of the powerband to the already potent output of the VQ37VHR is like adding an instant turbo or shot of Nitrous. Some versions of the 3D motor have already pumped out 280 hp and 390 lb/ft of torque.

Hopefully Nissan engineers will program the system to allow this sort of potential for sprints at the least. If too much fun depletes the battery, the car will still be fully functional on the big VQ engine. The Infiniti Essence Consept car reportedly gets almost 600 hp from its similar hybrid system although the VQ engine used in that car has twin turbos from the Skyline GTR grafted to its direct injection cylinder heads. Based on this, we think that a conservative estimate of 400 hp is possible for a hybrid 370Z. If the hybrid system adds another 300 lbs to the 370Z's curb weight, you would still have a car that is about the same weight of the highly regarded Z32 300ZXTT with about 100 more hp and a better chassis and brakes! The hybrid 370Z would still be much lighter than the R35 Skyline GT-R.

The Hybrid 370Z will probably run on a compact, trunk mounted lithium ion battery pack built by a joint venture between Nissan and electronics giant NEC that has twice the energy density of conventional batteries such as the nickel metal hydride batteries found in most current hybrids. The new battery has a laminated construction which has more internal surface area of the storage grids.

A similar drive system is rumored to be in development for a possible Toyota Supra Replacement as well. Considering Toyota's experience with hybrid technology in front engine rear drive vehicles, from Lexus to even race cars, this sounds plausible.

Currently, Techtom, a Japanese aftermarket electronics tuner has had some interesting and promising results tinkering with the hybrid drive system on a Prius, enabling much more aggressive application of power from both the electric and Internal combustion powerplants at once, waking up much more performance for this unexpected platform. With The Obama administrations new stringent CAFE standards on the horizon, this sort of electronic tuning may be our high performance future!

The new hybrid 370Z sports car is projected to have remarkably high fuel economy; an average of 35 mpg in mixed cycle use vs. the current average of about 23 mpg. We eagerly await the Hybrid 370Z. This might be a vehicle where you can have your cake and eat it too: fast, green and economical.

^ there you go :)

Toyota FT-HS.

Sounds interesting, but i dont see it being implemented until the next z

Why not 2011 as the article states? The main reason to jump on this is to be the first production sports car hybrid.... the technology is there ready to go...

Becasue toyota has been working on theirs forever, and it still is yet to be seen. This is just my opinion, but it feels right at this point.

Hopefully it will be out for the 2011. If things work out the way nissan wants it to, this will be very good for them. But I will miss the exhaust noise, even though it's still somewhat quite already. Oh well i guess the future of cars are going to make those funky electric motor noises.:icon14:

Who cares about MPG anyway? we are driving sports cars...not prius sedans.:shakes head: I drove a tank called a H1 and i got 5mpg on diesel but those forum members didint complain. I think the MPG the 370 has right now is pretty damn good. Im done venting :tup:

Umm because $6.00/gallon is coming and more HP for less $ is a win in my book.

Why the hate on efficiency and power?

If you can have both, embrace it. I will.

Too bad the FT-HS never made or the Alessandro Volta.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...ro_Volta-1.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...HS_concept.jpg

How will you mod a hybrid? Bigger batteries?

There's no hate on either, im just saying trying to make somethings, not everything, green could damage its image. Imagine a badass sports car like the Z having a super quiet electric motor and reduced power to save on emissions...just seems like the two wouldn't work together.

I'm still not a fan of hybrid technology. It's an inefficient, wasteful design compared to an all-electric with a generator for extended range.

The correct design for an all-electric is: 4 electric motors, one in each wheel as an integral part of the hub/wheel, a sizable battery system that's capable, and a very advanced ECU to control the 4 motors and the charging system. There's no gearing and no drivetrain losses in such a setup. You get instant torque from 0rpm at all wheels. Top speed is limited by max engine RPM, but is usually sufficient (120 mph or higher, at the least). You also don't need conventional brakes, as the ECU can reverse current flow to the engines for torque braking that's more powerful than conventional brakes anyways (although I'm sure they'll have to add some kind of mechanical e-brake for power failure scenarios), and you get regenerative braking with that to help battery range. Prototypes of these designs have already been built by multiple smaller companies. Since the ECU can control individual torque at all 4 wheels (both negative (braking) and positive (accel)), it's also possible in software to replace all the functions of "limited slip", "ABS", "traction control", etc with much more advanced and precise variants. They get acceleration times that blow the doors off of just about anything.

The only issue is usually the allowable travelling range on a battery pack of reasonable weight. The solution? A tiny (we're talking lawn-mower-sized) 2-cycle gasoline or diesel engine in the trunk, which runs at a fixed RPM very efficiently powering a small generator to keep the batteries topped off. For extended trips, you just gas up the small tank on the generator, and it's still vastly more fuel/power-efficient for the long-haul than any conventional or hybrid.

Why automakers continue dragging their feet with this "hybrid" drivetrain stuff, I don't know. Both the tree-huggers and the racers win with an all-electric design. The few that have been hand-built have been very expensive (the batteries and the motors being the huge expense obviously), but if a major auto manufacturer did this they would achieve much better economies of scale and drive the component prices down.

:iagree:

Great post wstar!

One reason they have not done this is the retooling costs. They are setup to make the types of vehicles they make. They don't want to spend the money, and have the downtime to retool the factories, and retrain the workers. Not to mention training technicians for repair. IMHO, they should have used the bailout money for this.

And what emissions would an electric car have?

none, they would reduce power from the sports car to make it less harmfull to the earth.

HAR!..

when i was a wee bitty fellar.. some of us were into slot cars.. you'd buy em and go to these slot car tracks and race em.. the true gurus of that world did things like taking their itty bitty motors out and rewinding the coils to pull more power somehow.. i think it actually would suck power into their cars and reduce power to others.. dunno though..

hotrodding electric motors will be cool.. perhaps cooler than hydro-carbon based engines... imagine dropping a locomotive electric motor into a volkswagon and showing up a the local track....

The FT-HS is still under development and should debut some time next year as a 2011 model year.

WStar the four wheel/motor system is going to be a huge leap in how the car handles as well. There is no need for a differential you can program LSD however you want it to react - its going to give unbelievable handling characteristics.

As for our love or hate for hybrids they are going to be here regardless. Its the step consumers need to take going from gas to electric - its part of the psychology of changing technologies. Its the same reason your DVD player is backwards compatible with your CD player, etc. We don't like change even if its for the better so Hybrids are part of the transition. Full electric will be outstanding and with battery technologies changing as rapidly as they have been the future isn't far off. An electric motor will eat any gas motor - its just a matter of time before we can carry enough electrons in our cars to make this possible.

lol - just take a few winds off your motor and it will draw more current and in turn (no pun intended there) will produce more power. It will also put more load on the power supply and if the power supply isn't up to the task the other cars will be slower :)

Hot rodding electric motors is already huge with the R/C guys and the new brushless technology its the software in the speed controller that is making huge leaps in performance including software timing advance, etc...

I hate hybrids and hope to avoid them as long as possible. They only represent a stop-gap solution in my book, but one that can be sold to the public since they don't require major changes in behavior to use them.

I work for several automakers as a supplier, and I do not see any of them "dragging their feet" on all-electric design. The limitations of current battery tech are very real. Did you happen to see the Business Week article on problems with li-on battery packs catching fire? It only takes a single bad cell to start a chain reaction and the best batteries today use hundreds of them.

Power grid issues are pretty significant as well. Today's all-electric prototype cars require at least 230VAC service, and would benefit from even higher voltage to shorten charge times to under 4 hours. But in many parts of the U.S. the power grid is struggling to satisfy domestic and industrial demand. Here in the Northeast we are constantly challenged with brownouts and power blips. Adding a few million all-electric cars to this equation will cause many of these systems to fail catastrophically.

There are great strides being taken on developing electric motors with better characteristics for automotive use, higher efficiency, better long-term reliability, etc. But until the battery and grid issues are solved, I think we're a ways from being able to take advantage of the technology.

Just my $.02

HJM

The Business Weekly article must be caught in the '80's because battery technology for vehicles isn't LiIon batteries from your laptop battery. Those batteries are capable of 1C output (eg a 1 amp hour battery can source one amp). Even LiMn which are have been available to consumers for the last two or three years are capable of 20C constant discharge and they can be pierced, crushed, etc without risk of fire. I've even dead shorted one and while there was a lot of soot, there was no danger of fire or explosion. I built a custom battery pack about 1/4 the size of a car battery that would source 600A continuous at about 34V. Thats 20KW and that's old technology. There is now LiPo/LiMn technology as well as LiFe, etc, etc, etc. LiIon is ancient and the Tesla car that uses all those LiIon cells would be the same as you soldering 1400 watch batteries to make a car battery instead of your lead acid battery - its all but insane. I'd like to see the article but it sounds like they are out to lunch.... I'm not saying we've arrived at the perfect battery but we are way further ahead than what is/has been implemented.

I would be shocked (no pun intended) if you don't have 240VAC in your house. Regardless its not the voltage that will reduce charge times - any voltage can be converted to whatever the battery arrangement is. Higher voltage makes more sense because smaller wires are required to carry the same power. As for the power grid there is so much energy on earth that is untapped.... but that's another long debate. Lets harness some of the wind power, etc. Its a matter of capital investment, etc and until the demand is there the investments won't be made. If we told you 20 years ago our power demands would be what they are today everyone would say impossible yet here we are....

IMO The FT-HS probobly wont ever come because nobody wants to drive space ships. Its 2009 not 2049.

I've been a hot rodder for years, I've owned a '67 Firebird, '40 ford, and my wife just bought a 2010 Camaro. But I still find myself wondering where our future lies .... I'm in my mid 40's now, and I find that I want there to be some sort of future for my children, does that mean my son is going to be hotrodding hybids ? Does that mean I need to hotrod a 370Z hybrid ? For some strange reason that doesn't bother me anymore ... I say bring it on !!!! Quite frankly I have hotrodded everything with a carburator that I can, I'm bored. Injectors ? Getting boring .... Let's try somthing new !!!! :driving:

No thanks. Thats why I settled for the 2010 when I heard about this. If I wanted to go green I'd go all electric, ride a bike, or take the freakin bus. Call me old fashion but there is something about putting a battery in a car....especially in a sports car for that matter. If performance hybrids turn out to be the next big thing of this century, fine...I'll still be proud to own a "real" sports car that feeds on fuel and not some damn battery powered "toy" car.

and then you see your *** getting handed to you by these "toy" cars

400 hp for the hybrid z. TT on the '09 '10 z. There you go.

JeeZe. And someone thought I was bringing back old threads from the dead.

lol you need to start turbo charging your car to handle a "toy" car.

:roflpuke2:

pfff..i'll believe it WHEN i see it. On paper its a huge jump in performance, but it still needs to prove itself...also reliability is still in question. If I do get my *** handed to me...that just means its a faster car...but it doesnt mean its a better car, I'm predicting its going to have its own set of problems and I'm not going to put my hard earned money down to find out....I'll settle for the 2010 thats tried and true thank you.

I wouldn't call this a toy:
Fastest Ever Electric Car From Jaguar – AltTransport: Your Guide to Smarter Ways of Getting Around

The Cost
 

No one has brought up the estimated cost, I think it could go as high as 10k but you might find some Obama right off tax being a hybred