Nismo = cheese-mo

RCZ · 07-19-2009, 10:24 PM

I am so surprised this thread hasn't exploded into a flamewar. Keep it up folks.

* I do agree with most of the AMG, M and -F and RS comments for sure, but I dont think we havent look that far. Even STI and EVO owners get a BIG upgrade from their normal bretheren and they aren't excessively more expensive.

* When engineers design a car to be used as a track car and then negate the whole process by not putting the correct cooling on it, then they have failed and the whole car is a failure.

* If the car is not designed for track use, but has been branded and marketed as such then this is what we call marketing. For folks who want to feel like racers, but arent. Don't tell me you want a race car for the street because that wont go well.

* One could argue that it is a better starting point to build upon because the chassis is stiffer, but then.. I have a feeling you're going to lose that argument when someone slaps you with the price difference over base.

* Not enough difference to call it a new model either as almost everything is the same.

So what you have here then is either:

A) a failure to create a more focused track car

or

B) a shameless use of the NISMO brand by Nissan who needed a few bucks in this economy and decided to give a lot less for more $.

I think its the latter...they are using Nismo fans and diehards who love the brand..

As someone mentioned before...the NISMO model we just got was supposed to be the "track" trim for the 370Z. Seeing where the economy was, Nissan decided that all the R&D money that went into that car would probably be lost if they priced it like they have previous year track models. So the smart folks at Nissan decide to slap a nismo badge, a body kit and a nice $10k Markup.

But hey, thats just my theory.

kgreen · 07-19-2009, 10:28 PM

well said Fric-Frac

travisjb · 07-19-2009, 10:54 PM

Good discussion.

I would have been a buyer for a $45K well prepared 370z setup from the factory for the track. But I would want it to be more like a race car that you just have to strip and cage... barely street legal, essentially how mine is now. I think a lot of the parts that have been mentioned are good, and some of them would be comparable or just a bit more for nissan to source vs the current set. In addition to what has been mentioned, I'd want it to include:

- weight transfer to rear for more like 52/48
- single mass flywheel
- 1.5 way rear diff... I'm really digging the carbonetic, very 'street-able'
- more gauge options

gnarf · 07-19-2009, 11:07 PM

this kinda reminds me of the new Corvette Grand Sport coming out real soon. Its pretty much a regular C6 corvette with Z06 brakes, suspensions and wider body panels..all for around 55k..supposedly it would be the fastest car under 60k..I wished the Nismo could compete at the Grand Sport's level...even if they slapped on some cookie sized turbos like the ones on the 335i...it would make some great results!!!

Brazilbro · 07-19-2009, 11:34 PM

it would be nice if nissan has something closer to the GT-R in performace with a 6-spd. That is the killer for me. A Nismo 370 Turbo in the 60-65k range/ or 400ish N/A , i dont think would compete to much with the GT-R.. I know a lot of ppl that love the GT-R and what it can do but just cant give up that manual so they go corvette or porsche.

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

Being a Z person since the last Z (350), I have had a little more time to become accustomed to this. The 350 nismo was even worse than the 370 version. In american cars, where I came from, the sportier models actually came with some real goodies.
So, in short, totally agree.

350z nismo was not worse when it came with seam welds which drastically makes the car stiffer. It is very noticeable between both cars.

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 11:39 PM

People tried this against the NISMO 350z and failed. You can buy all the parts you want, but if they don't work properly together it could just make your car worse. Autech tuned all the parts to work together on both NISMO versions. And the NISMO 350Z still out handles many race prepped Zs with just bolt ons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package.

Changes:
~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers)
~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty)
~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk)

I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z.

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpawnAeroJohn

Very good point. The nismo also does come with upgraded suspension work. But IMO still not worth the price. At least the 350Z nismo came with an altered chassis. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct, the didn't do this on the 370z which imho was a failure on Nissans part.

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 11:42 PM

Remember, you can do all this, but you won't have the downforce of the factory body kit that helps plant the tires to the ground when needed. That is one of the most important parts on a road course, is that downforce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten

Agreed on the Edmunds test being only one test but I believe someone else tested both and came to the same conclusion if Im not mistaken. But yeah we should wait before we stamp it a dud. I agree it should be faster around a circuit track given the totality of the mods involved.

Also a Z with sport package and touring can be had for 36-38k when I was initially looking. Obviously out the door would be a bit more. But the Nismo Z starts at 39k. Out the door it will be 40k+ easily especially with the markups. Id get the SP, minus the nav package, so I can get the rev match and lsd. I can get such a car for around 34k when I was initially looking. 34k plus these mods below would make for a car around the Nismo Z's price with much better performance imho. Correct me if my numbers are not current.

Stillen Exhaust - $1500

Stillen Intake - $549

Stillen Oil Cooler - $426

Berk High Flow Cats - $549

KW Variant 3 - $2000

Hotchkis Sway bar upgrade $375

Dyno Tune - $500-1000 maybe more.

Total = 6399 without shipping. Price will climb with that added of course but I dont have a ball park for it as it varies.

The above is just enough products to beatdown the Nismo Z with ease. I didnt include wheels or bodykit as they didnt help the Nismo Z at all against a sport packaged 370z and the body kit is useless at the track dispite Nissans claim of downforce. Downforce too minimal to affect the overall numbers vs the normal SP Z.

Still have a bit of money left in that 10k Nismo premium for light track wheels, front big brake kit if the person choses. This wont get you a limited Nismo version but it will get you a Z that will embarrass the Nismo branded version on any track imho..BTW all the mods I listed wont void your waranty I believe as this is not a GTR lol.

These threads are fun but purely wishfull thinking

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

I think you're missing the point of the NISMO. Its for those who want the NISMO parts as an option for their car. For what it is its a good deal. Price the bits and pieces seperately and its gonna cost you way more. Plus they did some extra stuff like solid welding the frames to increase the stiffness of the chasis. If you are looking for a high performance version of the 370Z (which incase we forgot is one of the best bang for the buck sports cars out there) then the NISMO isn't good value. Get your own less expensive parts sans warranty. Oh and that's another point - for those of you who got suckered in with the "paint protection" you do realize that's just a wax job with a warranty right? Same thing with the NISMO parts - you pay a premium and you get warranty coverage with it and hopefully no hassels because the car was built that way.

Personally I'm not interested in the NISMO model. Don't like the looks of the body kit (well 'cept for the rear wing - tempted...) and I'd rather get other performance parts specific to what I'll be doing with the car.

Take it for what it is. A 370Z with factory installed NISMO parts as well as a tune and body welds at a fraction of what that would cost to buy the parts seperately and its going to be a fairly rare version of the car. It's not suppose to be a super charged turboed 370Z..... Is it a good deal? Not to me personally but to someone who wants the brand name stuff....

Just a correction. The NISMO 370z did not get body welds.

FricFrac · 07-19-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Just a correction. The NISMO 370z did not get body welds.

Thanks for the update on that. Most of what I had read said nothing about body welds but I had read one journalist that said it was welded - must have been confused with the 350Z NISMO he tested

Its funny how Nissan has given us "Best Sports Car Value on the Planet" or whatever the journalist are saying and in spite of that we keep saying "oh it would have been nice if they....." I suppose the best isn't good enough is what keeps pushing the technology forward.....

Pariz · 07-20-2009, 01:35 AM

I agree with you on the looks, it looks different than the 370z, the designers need to get some clues from the Italians they took the nice look away.
I don't agree with the rest of your comment, the nismo probably will give to any of the Germans a very hard time or beat them for $30k less. I had the 370z for 3 weeks and now I have the nismo and let me tell you this is another car, I just came back from the LA CREST HWY, this car really handles and it's fun to drive.
I will say that I miss the front and rear bumper of my 370z, I wish I can make it look like the original 370z but I don't think it's possible.
The disigners of this car forgot the suit case of taste, class, fashion, or probably were drunk.

shabarivas · 07-20-2009, 02:48 AM

The nismo 370 is yet to show us what its really capable of... the nismo 350 was an AMAZING improvement over the non nismo 350... Despite its looks - it hands down was a better car... so dont be too judgmental just yet...

SnakeBitten · 07-20-2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Remember, you can do all this, but you won't have the downforce of the factory body kit that helps plant the tires to the ground when needed. That is one of the most important parts on a road course, is that downforce.

I hear what you are saying but the down force produced by the bodykit is minimal. Hardly enough to offset the beatdown it would get from a Z with the mods I layed out sans bodykit. Its not like the kit produces anywhere near even half the ACR levels of down force. One of the major mags said the same thing about the Nismo 350z. Downforce is minimal as its more a bodykit than any aid in handling on track imho.

A Z equipped like I posted before would kill the Nismo Z with ease on track. Yes its about parts working in harmony but the Nismo Z package is hardly untouchable for less money than the premium it commands. All Nissan did was add standard stuff enthusiasts add but with less performance as evidenced by some of the numbers guys are getting with similar mods imho.

BTW thanks for the correction on the body welds. I assumed the 370z Nismo had the body welds as well.

NIZMOZ · 07-20-2009, 08:48 AM

150lb at 70~ mph is A LOT! I can feel it on my Z when I am on the road course. It gets more traction and wants to grip the faster I go which is like the opposite of what it would normally do.

Sadly you are one that has never been on a track with a NISMO Z. There are many videos out there that already show how well the NISMO does with race slicks. No aftermarket Z has yet to handle as smooth and good.

But then again, the 370z has no body welds which is a huge difference in handling, so that might be enough for someone to blow off the NISMO this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten

I hear what you are saying but the down force produced by the bodykit is minimal. Hardly enough to offset the beatdown it would get from a Z with the mods I layed out sans bodykit. Its not like the kit produces anywhere near even half the ACR levels of down force. One of the major mags said the same thing about the Nismo 350z. Downforce is minimal as its more a bodykit than any aid in handling on track imho.

A Z equipped like I posted before would kill the Nismo Z with ease on track. Yes its about parts working in harmony but the Nismo Z package is hardly untouchable for less money than the premium it commands. All Nissan did was add standard stuff enthusiasts add but with less performance as evidenced by some of the numbers guys are getting with similar mods imho.

BTW thanks for the correction on the body welds. I assumed the 370z Nismo had the body welds as well.

07-19-2009, 10:54 PM	#48 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Good discussion. I would have been a buyer for a $45K well prepared 370z setup from the factory for the track. But I would want it to be more like a race car that you just have to strip and cage... barely street legal, essentially how mine is now. I think a lot of the parts that have been mentioned are good, and some of them would be comparable or just a bit more for nissan to source vs the current set. In addition to what has been mentioned, I'd want it to include: - weight transfer to rear for more like 52/48 - single mass flywheel - 1.5 way rear diff... I'm really digging the carbonetic, very 'street-able' - more gauge options __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

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07-19-2009, 10:24 PM	#46 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	I am so surprised this thread hasn't exploded into a flamewar. Keep it up folks. * I do agree with most of the AMG, M and -F and RS comments for sure, but I dont think we havent look that far. Even STI and EVO owners get a BIG upgrade from their normal bretheren and they aren't excessively more expensive. * When engineers design a car to be used as a track car and then negate the whole process by not putting the correct cooling on it, then they have failed and the whole car is a failure. * If the car is not designed for track use, but has been branded and marketed as such then this is what we call marketing. For folks who want to feel like racers, but arent. Don't tell me you want a race car for the street because that wont go well. * One could argue that it is a better starting point to build upon because the chassis is stiffer, but then.. I have a feeling you're going to lose that argument when someone slaps you with the price difference over base. * Not enough difference to call it a new model either as almost everything is the same. So what you have here then is either: A) a failure to create a more focused track car or B) a shameless use of the NISMO brand by Nissan who needed a few bucks in this economy and decided to give a lot less for more $. I think its the latter...they are using Nismo fans and diehards who love the brand.. As someone mentioned before...the NISMO model we just got was supposed to be the "track" trim for the 370Z. Seeing where the economy was, Nissan decided that all the R&D money that went into that car would probably be lost if they priced it like they have previous year track models. So the smart folks at Nissan decide to slap a nismo badge, a body kit and a nice $10k Markup. But hey, thats just my theory.

07-19-2009, 10:28 PM	#47 (permalink)
kgreen Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: EL Paso, Tx Posts: 387 Drives: SR 370z Rep Power: 243	well said Fric-Frac

07-19-2009, 11:07 PM	#49 (permalink)
gnarf Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jersey Posts: 160 Drives: G37 Rep Power: 16	this kinda reminds me of the new Corvette Grand Sport coming out real soon. Its pretty much a regular C6 corvette with Z06 brakes, suspensions and wider body panels..all for around 55k..supposedly it would be the fastest car under 60k..I wished the Nismo could compete at the Grand Sport's level...even if they slapped on some cookie sized turbos like the ones on the 335i...it would make some great results!!!

07-19-2009, 11:34 PM	#50 (permalink)
Brazilbro A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,131 Drives: Juke/240Z Rep Power: 848	it would be nice if nissan has something closer to the GT-R in performace with a 6-spd. That is the killer for me. A Nismo 370 Turbo in the 60-65k range/ or 400ish N/A , i dont think would compete to much with the GT-R.. I know a lot of ppl that love the GT-R and what it can do but just cant give up that manual so they go corvette or porsche.

07-20-2009, 01:35 AM	#57 (permalink)
Pariz Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Posts: 4 Drives: Nissan 370Z white-09 Rep Power: 16	I agree with you on the looks, it looks different than the 370z, the designers need to get some clues from the Italians they took the nice look away. I don't agree with the rest of your comment, the nismo probably will give to any of the Germans a very hard time or beat them for $30k less. I had the 370z for 3 weeks and now I have the nismo and let me tell you this is another car, I just came back from the LA CREST HWY, this car really handles and it's fun to drive. I will say that I miss the front and rear bumper of my 370z, I wish I can make it look like the original 370z but I don't think it's possible. The disigners of this car forgot the suit case of taste, class, fashion, or probably were drunk.

07-20-2009, 02:48 AM	#58 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	The nismo 370 is yet to show us what its really capable of... the nismo 350 was an AMAZING improvement over the non nismo 350... Despite its looks - it hands down was a better car... so dont be too judgmental just yet...