Nismo = cheese-mo

fly yellow · 07-19-2009, 06:29 PM

I'm not a fan of the NISMO, but I don't fault Nissan for making it. We need to remember that this is Nissan, not Mercedes, BMW, or Audi. This is a company that sells cars starting at just over 10K. I'm just happy that Nissan is still pretty commited to performance cars in an age when so many "everyman" car companies are scrapping them.

SnakeBitten · 07-19-2009, 06:39 PM

AGREED. Somethings I would have loved to see in this Nismo Z.

1. FACTORY INSTALLED OIL COOLERS for a track focused car is a serious nobrainer. [bruno] Nissan.....Wass Up?[/bruno]

2. Direct Injection and at least 50 more hp[aftermarket is getting close to that with just i/e/h & tune. A cam to exploit an 8000-8200 redline would be nice but not necessary.

3. Its own gearset to maximize all 6 gears [who cares about 1-2mpg loss on a track focused car]

4. Lightweight Racing seats to offset some of the weight added by the seam welds.

5. A more aesthetically pleasing lightweight bodykit that added "significant" downforce.

40-45k for this I believe people would easily pay. I mean they are paying that for the 370z Nismo as it stands and getting way less than the above.

\/\/ Thanks Whoady

whoady4shoady · 07-19-2009, 06:48 PM

Great post SB.

theDreamer · 07-19-2009, 06:56 PM

Agree, the best way Nissan could go with the Nismo line is making what everyone thinks it is, a track base car. Cut the weight (seats, rear, etc.), a nice solid boost in HP, but the most important is the handling, it needs to be a very large step above the standard coupe, oh and an oil cooler.

Pushing_Tin · 07-19-2009, 06:58 PM

Also agree, maybe it's because I'm in my 30s now, but the NISMO looks way to boy racer for me to appreciate. If it were just a little more expensive I would understand, but there's no way it's worth the premium that Nissan wants for it.

sensi09 · 07-19-2009, 06:58 PM

I think some of your guys expectations for the Nismo models are a bit too high. I honestly think it's quite a nice package from the factory.

Looks are subjective, but along with the bodykit, you get wheels, intake, exhaust and a tune. There are other parts included, but if one were to try and build a base model Z in the same manner as the nismo, costs would far exceed the Nismo's MSRP. All in all it represents a good value IMO.

Could you build a faster Z or a better handling Z, sure, but everything done right from the factory with a warranty to boot is very nice to have. Even if you like to mod, I think the nismo would make a nice starting platform.

The Nismo may be marketed as a more "track-ready" Z, and with the improved suspension I think it is, but more "track-ready" or not, Nissan still makes a compromises for a daily driven car and the overall market.

There are many comparisons to M-models and AMG, but there is roughly a 15-20K price difference between say a moderately equipped M3 and a fully loaded 335i coupe. Could Nissan build a Z with more exclusivity and power, I'm sure they can, but really who is going to spend 50K plus on a Z. Bang for the buck is one of the main draw-points for the Z, so if you take that away, there are other options I'd consider. Some people have made comparisons to a GT3 and even a GT3RS, but again look at the price differential and eek, lack of power gain with the 3 and 3RS.

theDreamer · 07-19-2009, 07:05 PM

I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package.

Changes:
~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers)
~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty)
~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk)

I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z.

GMZ · 07-19-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

Being a Z person since the last Z (350), I have had a little more time to become accustomed to this. The 350 nismo was even worse than the 370 version. In american cars, where I came from, the sportier models actually came with some real goodies.
So, in short, totally agree.

Ditto, agree completely. Look at the vette lineup each model has a 25% hp increase, and the Z28 sure didnt hurt vette sales despite it being close hp wise. Same deal with Porsche, Ford, etc etc etc. Give the Nismo Z GTR heads and an improved I/E over stock and make it at least 375 ish for God's sake. They could do it for well under 50K I bet.

C6- 4XX HP
Z06-505 HP
ZR1-638 HP

spearfish25 · 07-19-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensi09

Could Nissan build a Z with more exclusivity and power, I'm sure they can, but really who is going to spend 50K plus on a Z. Bang for the buck is one of the main draw-points for the Z, so if you take that away, there are other options I'd consider.

Nissan worked a miracle in the 370Z, offering performance and quality that I never imagined possible in the $30k price range. Heck, that's why I ended up buying one on a whim.

If Nissan could extrapolate this achievement into a higher HP variant based on a detuned GT-R motor, upgrade the suspension package, wrap some leather into the cockpit components, substitute some brushed aluminum for plastic on the interior...you'd shift the bar up yet again. This $60k, twin-turbo, 420hp "real Nismo" 370Z would then be compared to $90k 911s instead of $60k Caymans.

GMZ · 07-19-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Nissan worked a miracle in the 370Z, offering performance and quality that I never imagined possible in the $30k price range. Heck, that's why I ended up buying one on a whim.

If Nissan could extrapolate this achievement into a higher HP variant based on a detuned GT-R motor, upgrade the suspension package, wrap some leather into the cockpit components, substitute some brushed aluminum for plastic on the interior...you'd shift the bar up yet again. This $60k, twin-turbo, 420hp "real Nismo" 370Z would then be compared to $90k 911s instead of $60k Caymans.

I couldnt agree more! I paid less for my 370 than I did my 04 350 Enthusiast and the 2 dont even compare.

sensi09 · 07-19-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Nissan worked a miracle in the 370Z, offering performance and quality that I never imagined possible in the $30k price range. Heck, that's why I ended up buying one on a whim.

If Nissan could extrapolate this achievement into a higher HP variant based on a detuned GT-R motor, upgrade the suspension package, wrap some leather into the cockpit components, substitute some brushed aluminum for plastic on the interior...you'd shift the bar up yet again. This $60k, twin-turbo, 420hp "real Nismo" 370Z would then be compared to $90k 911s instead of $60k Caymans.

A 420hp 370Z sounds nice, but would you spend $60+ on a Z?

To turn around the argument, you could spend 15K on a base Z and get a built TT with 400-500whp.

But yes a Nissan car aimed at the 911 would be interesting. The GT-R targets the 911 turbo and the 370Z targets the cayman....so another model could slide right in. Not sure it would sell though.

A TT sounds nice, but for a something aimed at the regular 911, I'd like a V8 370Z or perhaps and non-turbo GT-R

SpawnAeroJohn · 07-19-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Nissan already has a twin turbo 6 cylinder - it's called a GT-R; Nissan doesn't need to put out a Z that would be putting down near GT-R HP/Tq and likely, be dangerously close to a GT-R price.

More importantly; who would buy it??? How big do you think the $60-$70K+ sports car market is?

Very good point. The nismo also does come with upgraded suspension work. But IMO still not worth the price. At least the 350Z nismo came with an altered chassis. Correct me if I'm wrong.

spearfish25 · 07-19-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensi09

A 420hp 370Z sounds nice, but would you spend $60+ on a Z?

To turn around the argument, you could spend 15K on a base Z and get a built TT with 400-500whp.

But yes a Nissan car aimed at the 911 would be interesting. The GT-R targets the 911 turbo and the 370Z targets the cayman....so another model could slide right in. Not sure it would sell though.

A TT sounds nice, but for a something aimed at the regular 911, I'd like a V8 370Z or perhaps and non-turbo GT-R

If Nissan could up the quality factor another step, I'd consider $60k on a Z. The TT V6 would be an easy step for Nissan given it's a motor in their lineup already. However, I'd happily take a V8 Z. Imagine the exhaust note on that baby!

(drool)

theDreamer · 07-19-2009, 07:36 PM

The issue with just saying, drop 10k into a TT kit is, there is more than just that 10k for the parts plus install. There is maintenance you have to deal with, chance of a major problem happening which will be out your own pocket. If Nissan did a 370TT with a factory warranty then that would be great.

SnakeBitten · 07-19-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensi09

I think some of your guys expectations for the Nismo models are a bit too high. I honestly think it's quite a nice package from the factory.

Looks are subjective, but along with the bodykit, you get wheels, intake, exhaust and a tune. There are other parts included, but if one were to try and build a base model Z in the same manner as the nismo, costs would far exceed the Nismo's MSRP. All in all it represents a good value IMO.

Could you build a faster Z or a better handling Z, sure, but everything done right from the factory with a warranty to boot is very nice to have. Even if you like to mod, I think the nismo would make a nice starting platform.

My expectations is to have an oil cooler for a track model especially when the factory tells you you will need one on the lower models "if" you track it. For the Nismo Z not to come standard with an oil cooler for the premium Nissan charges, is a slap to its customers imho. Everything else mentioned can be up for debate of course

As for the i/e/ and tune Ill concede that Nissan is going to promote its in house Nismo products understandably so i dont expect them to use the best aftermarket [in terms of cold hard numbers] i/e and tune we know are available. But they could have at least matched the performance numbers some members are "easily" getting. The i/e/h tune numbers from guys like Semtex, RCZ put the Nismo Z's tweaks to shame and I know they didnt spend anywhere close to 10-15k premium for that.

Check the latest tests fo the Nismo Z vs the regular Z and it aint faster. Why bother paying for a dud. Harsh but until a test validates the 10-15k premium over the other Z models thats what the Nismo Z essentially is. One can spend that 10-15k premium money and make a much better track Z and still keep their warranty imho. Im not looking for unreasonable products. Im sure Nissan has comparable performing products they could have used

1. KW Variant 2-3 suspension for example

2. Dual exhaust/header/intake and tune of your choice

3. Oil cooler of your choice

Add em up and not close to 10k and you will run rings around the Nismo Z thats tested not faster than the normal Z. I still have money left for front brake upgrade or light weight seats. Imagine if I dealt with volume sales for those components like Nissan, Id save even more per item over a model line imho. Just thinking out loud.

07-19-2009, 06:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
fly yellow Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 455 Drives: 09 yellow 370z Rep Power: 265	I'm not a fan of the NISMO, but I don't fault Nissan for making it. We need to remember that this is Nissan, not Mercedes, BMW, or Audi. This is a company that sells cars starting at just over 10K. I'm just happy that Nissan is still pretty commited to performance cars in an age when so many "everyman" car companies are scrapping them. __________________ A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer. Mitch Hedberg

07-19-2009, 06:39 PM	#17 (permalink)
SnakeBitten Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Midwood Posts: 232 Drives: 05 DBZ M6 Rep Power: 16	AGREED. Somethings I would have loved to see in this Nismo Z. 1. FACTORY INSTALLED OIL COOLERS for a track focused car is a serious nobrainer. [bruno] Nissan.....Wass Up?[/bruno] 2. Direct Injection and at least 50 more hp[aftermarket is getting close to that with just i/e/h & tune. A cam to exploit an 8000-8200 redline would be nice but not necessary. 3. Its own gearset to maximize all 6 gears [who cares about 1-2mpg loss on a track focused car] 4. Lightweight Racing seats to offset some of the weight added by the seam welds. 5. A more aesthetically pleasing lightweight bodykit that added "significant" downforce. 40-45k for this I believe people would easily pay. I mean they are paying that for the 370z Nismo as it stands and getting way less than the above. \/\/ Thanks Whoady __________________ Last edited by SnakeBitten; 07-19-2009 at 06:53 PM.

07-19-2009, 06:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Agree, the best way Nissan could go with the Nismo line is making what everyone thinks it is, a track base car. Cut the weight (seats, rear, etc.), a nice solid boost in HP, but the most important is the handling, it needs to be a very large step above the standard coupe, oh and an oil cooler. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-19-2009, 07:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package. Changes: ~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers) ~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty) ~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk) I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-19-2009, 07:36 PM	#29 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	The issue with just saying, drop 10k into a TT kit is, there is more than just that 10k for the parts plus install. There is maintenance you have to deal with, chance of a major problem happening which will be out your own pocket. If Nissan did a 370TT with a factory warranty then that would be great. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-19-2009, 06:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
whoady4shoady A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,088 Drives: 09 Silver Nismo Rep Power: 18	Great post SB.

07-19-2009, 06:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
Pushing_Tin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 2,875 Drives: E63 AMG Rep Power: 228	Also agree, maybe it's because I'm in my 30s now, but the NISMO looks way to boy racer for me to appreciate. If it were just a little more expensive I would understand, but there's no way it's worth the premium that Nissan wants for it.

07-19-2009, 06:58 PM	#21 (permalink)
sensi09 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: so cal Posts: 449 Drives: _ Rep Power: 16	I think some of your guys expectations for the Nismo models are a bit too high. I honestly think it's quite a nice package from the factory. Looks are subjective, but along with the bodykit, you get wheels, intake, exhaust and a tune. There are other parts included, but if one were to try and build a base model Z in the same manner as the nismo, costs would far exceed the Nismo's MSRP. All in all it represents a good value IMO. Could you build a faster Z or a better handling Z, sure, but everything done right from the factory with a warranty to boot is very nice to have. Even if you like to mod, I think the nismo would make a nice starting platform. The Nismo may be marketed as a more "track-ready" Z, and with the improved suspension I think it is, but more "track-ready" or not, Nissan still makes a compromises for a daily driven car and the overall market. There are many comparisons to M-models and AMG, but there is roughly a 15-20K price difference between say a moderately equipped M3 and a fully loaded 335i coupe. Could Nissan build a Z with more exclusivity and power, I'm sure they can, but really who is going to spend 50K plus on a Z. Bang for the buck is one of the main draw-points for the Z, so if you take that away, there are other options I'd consider. Some people have made comparisons to a GT3 and even a GT3RS, but again look at the price differential and eek, lack of power gain with the 3 and 3RS.

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