Nismo = cheese-mo

sensi09 · 07-19-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten

My expectations is to have an oil cooler for a track model especially when the factory tells you you will need one on the lower models "if" you track it. For the Nismo Z not to come standard with an oil cooler for the premium Nissan charges, is a slap to its customers imho. Everything else mentioned can be up for debate of course

As for the i/e/ and tune Ill concede that Nissan is going to promote its in house Nismo products understandably so i dont expect them to use the best aftermarket [in terms of cold hard numbers] i/e and tune we know are available. But they could have at least matched the performance numbers some members are "easily" getting. The i/e/h tune numbers from guys like Semtex, RCZ put the Nismo Z's tweaks to shame and I know they didnt spend anywhere close to 10-15k premium for that.

Check the latest tests fo the Nismo Z vs the regular Z and it aint faster. Why bother paying for a dud. Harsh but until a test validates the 10-15k premium over the other Z models thats what the Nismo Z essentially is. One can spend that 10-15k premium money and make a much better track Z and still keep their warranty imho. Im not looking for unreasonable products. Im sure Nissan has comparable performing products they could have used

1. KW Variant 2-3 suspension for example

2. Dual exhaust/header/intake and tune of your choice

3. Oil cooler of your choice

Add em up and not close to 10k and you will run rings around the Nismo Z thats tested not faster than the normal Z. I still have money left for front brake upgrade or light weight seats. Imagine if I dealt with volume sales for those components like Nissan, Id save even more per item over a model line imho. Just thinking out loud.

Well the oil cooler is a whole different issue. I'd expect every 370Z to be equipped with one or at least be able to handle some hot laps without issue.

I think the nismo represents a good value, but no doubt you can get more gains through aftermarket parts. I've said in my previous post in this thread that you can get more performance through aftermarket parts. I don't think that was ever a question. And when the "15-20K" was brought up, that is in regards to M and AMG models compared to the regular variants. The Nismo does 15K more than a base model. A Z with touring/sports and nav will cost more than a nismo.

I've seen the edmunds test, but that is just one test. I've commented on those threads. After all is said and done, I'd expect the Nismo to be a little faster or maybe the engine parts just don't make much more power. Or the parts make all their power at or near redline which could prove favorable on the track.

SnakeBitten · 07-19-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensi09

Well the oil cooler is a whole different issue. I'd expect every 370Z to be equipped with one or at least be able to handle some hot laps without issue.

I think the nismo represents a good value, but no doubt you can get more gains through aftermarket parts. I've said in my previous post in this thread that you can get more performance through aftermarket parts. I don't think that was ever a question. And when the "15-20K" was brought up, that is in regards to M and AMG models compared to the regular variants. The Nismo does 15K more than a base model. A Z with touring/sports and nav will cost more than a nismo.

I've seen the edmunds test, but that is just one test. I've commented on those threads. After all is said and done, I'd expect the Nismo to be a little faster or maybe the engine parts just don't make much more power. Or the parts make all their power at or near redline which could prove favorable on the track.

Agreed on the Edmunds test being only one test but I believe someone else tested both and came to the same conclusion if Im not mistaken. But yeah we should wait before we stamp it a dud. I agree it should be faster around a circuit track given the totality of the mods involved.

Also a Z with sport package and touring can be had for 36-38k when I was initially looking. Obviously out the door would be a bit more. But the Nismo Z starts at 39k. Out the door it will be 40k+ easily especially with the markups. Id get the SP, minus the nav package, so I can get the rev match and lsd. I can get such a car for around 34k when I was initially looking. 34k plus these mods below would make for a car around the Nismo Z's price with much better performance imho. Correct me if my numbers are not current.

Stillen Exhaust - $1500

Stillen Intake - $549

Stillen Oil Cooler - $426

Berk High Flow Cats - $549

KW Variant 3 - $2000

Hotchkis Sway bar upgrade $375

Dyno Tune - $500-1000 maybe more.

Total = 6399 without shipping. Price will climb with that added of course but I dont have a ball park for it as it varies.

The above is just enough products to beatdown the Nismo Z with ease. I didnt include wheels or bodykit as they didnt help the Nismo Z at all against a sport packaged 370z and the body kit is useless at the track dispite Nissans claim of downforce. Downforce too minimal to affect the overall numbers vs the normal SP Z.

Still have a bit of money left in that 10k Nismo premium for light track wheels, front big brake kit if the person choses. This wont get you a limited Nismo version but it will get you a Z that will embarrass the Nismo branded version on any track imho..BTW all the mods I listed wont void your waranty I believe as this is not a GTR lol.

These threads are fun but purely wishfull thinking

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 10:42 PM

Remember, you can do all this, but you won't have the downforce of the factory body kit that helps plant the tires to the ground when needed. That is one of the most important parts on a road course, is that downforce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten

Agreed on the Edmunds test being only one test but I believe someone else tested both and came to the same conclusion if Im not mistaken. But yeah we should wait before we stamp it a dud. I agree it should be faster around a circuit track given the totality of the mods involved.

Also a Z with sport package and touring can be had for 36-38k when I was initially looking. Obviously out the door would be a bit more. But the Nismo Z starts at 39k. Out the door it will be 40k+ easily especially with the markups. Id get the SP, minus the nav package, so I can get the rev match and lsd. I can get such a car for around 34k when I was initially looking. 34k plus these mods below would make for a car around the Nismo Z's price with much better performance imho. Correct me if my numbers are not current.

Stillen Exhaust - $1500

Stillen Intake - $549

Stillen Oil Cooler - $426

Berk High Flow Cats - $549

KW Variant 3 - $2000

Hotchkis Sway bar upgrade $375

Dyno Tune - $500-1000 maybe more.

Total = 6399 without shipping. Price will climb with that added of course but I dont have a ball park for it as it varies.

The above is just enough products to beatdown the Nismo Z with ease. I didnt include wheels or bodykit as they didnt help the Nismo Z at all against a sport packaged 370z and the body kit is useless at the track dispite Nissans claim of downforce. Downforce too minimal to affect the overall numbers vs the normal SP Z.

Still have a bit of money left in that 10k Nismo premium for light track wheels, front big brake kit if the person choses. This wont get you a limited Nismo version but it will get you a Z that will embarrass the Nismo branded version on any track imho..BTW all the mods I listed wont void your waranty I believe as this is not a GTR lol.

These threads are fun but purely wishfull thinking

juan05 · 07-19-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensi09

I think some of your guys expectations for the Nismo models are a bit too high. I honestly think it's quite a nice package from the factory.

Looks are subjective, but along with the bodykit, you get wheels, intake, exhaust and a tune. There are other parts included, but if one were to try and build a base model Z in the same manner as the nismo, costs would far exceed the Nismo's MSRP. All in all it represents a good value IMO.

Could you build a faster Z or a better handling Z, sure, but everything done right from the factory with a warranty to boot is very nice to have. Even if you like to mod, I think the nismo would make a nice starting platform.

The Nismo may be marketed as a more "track-ready" Z, and with the improved suspension I think it is, but more "track-ready" or not, Nissan still makes a compromises for a daily driven car and the overall market.

There are many comparisons to M-models and AMG, but there is roughly a 15-20K price difference between say a moderately equipped M3 and a fully loaded 335i coupe. Could Nissan build a Z with more exclusivity and power, I'm sure they can, but really who is going to spend 50K plus on a Z. Bang for the buck is one of the main draw-points for the Z, so if you take that away, there are other options I'd consider. Some people have made comparisons to a GT3 and even a GT3RS, but again look at the price differential and eek, lack of power gain with the 3 and 3RS.

+1

theDreamer · 07-19-2009, 06:05 PM

I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package.

Changes:
~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers)
~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty)
~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk)

I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z.

NIZMOZ · 07-19-2009, 10:39 PM

People tried this against the NISMO 350z and failed. You can buy all the parts you want, but if they don't work properly together it could just make your car worse. Autech tuned all the parts to work together on both NISMO versions. And the NISMO 350Z still out handles many race prepped Zs with just bolt ons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package.

Changes:
~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers)
~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty)
~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk)

I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z.

theDreamer · 07-20-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

People tried this against the NISMO 350z and failed. You can buy all the parts you want, but if they don't work properly together it could just make your car worse. Autech tuned all the parts to work together on both NISMO versions. And the NISMO 350Z still out handles many race prepped Zs with just bolt ons.

Really, because we have seen multiple people slap on some bolt ons which will push more than the Nismo upgrades and work properly together. We already very close in suspension, which all we (Coupe 370z) really need to upgrade are the tires and we will equal the Nismo. What else is left? Body kit, can pick up a better one or the Nismo one from Nissan if you want.

theDreamer · 07-19-2009, 06:36 PM

The issue with just saying, drop 10k into a TT kit is, there is more than just that 10k for the parts plus install. There is maintenance you have to deal with, chance of a major problem happening which will be out your own pocket. If Nissan did a 370TT with a factory warranty then that would be great.

antennahead · 07-19-2009, 06:52 PM

Well (grabs heat shield, lol) ..... at least it looks less "cheese-mo" than the 350 Nismo, IMO. The rear spoiler is the thing that really puts it over the top for me, screams boy-racer, but to each his own. As far as NISMO (Nissan Motorsports racing), I don't think it's really fair to confuse that with the perception we seem to have of the 370Z Nismo.

John

355890 · 07-19-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I can't get over this so I figured I'd post my opinion and see what you guys think. Four months ago when I bought my 370Z, I was an excited 'convert' from having owned a number of Audis.

With my old Audis, I was truly an Audi enthusiast. I drooled over the S and RS variations of the cars, attended Audi driving schools, etc etc. I was loyal and loved the sportier versions offered by the S and RS models. Audi had and still has something special in their 'sporty racing' versions that is sexy and desirable.

Now I'm a Nissan owner and I love my new Z. However, out comes the Nismo 370Z and all I do is find myself cringing at everything Nismo represents. First, the 'sportier' model looks arguably ridiculous from some or many angles. Even something as simple as more aggressive styling is done with numerous stepoffs and contours that don't compliment each other. To make matters worse, the bumpers look like plastic rather than smooth, sleek and hi-tech. Second, the Nismo really offers nothing that's more desirable. If Audi put out a Nismo 370Z, it would sport a twin-turbo or V8 upgrade. Why isn't our Nismo sporting 400+hp? BMW and Mercedes also know the recipe with their M and AMG versions. People would laugh at Audi if the RS4 just had new front and rear bumpers, some RS4 stitching and a new exhaust.

In short, I'm sorry to say that anything Nismo makes my stomach crawl. The last thing I'd want on my car is anything that actually says "Nismo". For me, Nismo is just Cheese-mo. What do you guys think?

Suspension. I think the current 370Z Sport suspension falls very short on capabilites.

The NISMO model does fill in those gaps.

However, engine changes ( Turbo, Supercharger ) enhancements are really what is in order for a flagship model.

I am an ex - VW owner R32. and it was quick !!

Brizzie · 07-19-2009, 08:34 PM

If tha Nismo had at least 375 hp and it cost under 50G.. I would definitely do it

6MT · 07-19-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I can't get over this so I figured I'd post my opinion and see what you guys think. Four months ago when I bought my 370Z, I was an excited 'convert' from having owned a number of Audis.

With my old Audis, I was truly an Audi enthusiast. I drooled over the S and RS variations of the cars, attended Audi driving schools, etc etc. I was loyal and loved the sportier versions offered by the S and RS models. Audi had and still has something special in their 'sporty racing' versions that is sexy and desirable.

Now I'm a Nissan owner and I love my new Z. However, out comes the Nismo 370Z and all I do is find myself cringing at everything Nismo represents. First, the 'sportier' model looks arguably ridiculous from some or many angles. Even something as simple as more aggressive styling is done with numerous stepoffs and contours that don't compliment each other. To make matters worse, the bumpers look like plastic rather than smooth, sleek and hi-tech. Second, the Nismo really offers nothing that's more desirable. If Audi put out a Nismo 370Z, it would sport a twin-turbo or V8 upgrade. Why isn't our Nismo sporting 400+hp? BMW and Mercedes also know the recipe with their M and AMG versions. People would laugh at Audi if the RS4 just had new front and rear bumpers, some RS4 stitching and a new exhaust.

In short, I'm sorry to say that anything Nismo makes my stomach crawl. The last thing I'd want on my car is anything that actually says "Nismo". For me, Nismo is just Cheese-mo. What do you guys think?

Couldn't have said it better. Nissan IS being "cheesy" with the Nismo.

GingaBreadMan · 07-19-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I can't get over this so I figured I'd post my opinion and see what you guys think. Four months ago when I bought my 370Z, I was an excited 'convert' from having owned a number of Audis.

With my old Audis, I was truly an Audi enthusiast. I drooled over the S and RS variations of the cars, attended Audi driving schools, etc etc. I was loyal and loved the sportier versions offered by the S and RS models. Audi had and still has something special in their 'sporty racing' versions that is sexy and desirable.

Now I'm a Nissan owner and I love my new Z. However, out comes the Nismo 370Z and all I do is find myself cringing at everything Nismo represents. First, the 'sportier' model looks arguably ridiculous from some or many angles. Even something as simple as more aggressive styling is done with numerous stepoffs and contours that don't compliment each other. To make matters worse, the bumpers look like plastic rather than smooth, sleek and hi-tech. Second, the Nismo really offers nothing that's more desirable. If Audi put out a Nismo 370Z, it would sport a twin-turbo or V8 upgrade. Why isn't our Nismo sporting 400+hp? BMW and Mercedes also know the recipe with their M and AMG versions. People would laugh at Audi if the RS4 just had new front and rear bumpers, some RS4 stitching and a new exhaust.

In short, I'm sorry to say that anything Nismo makes my stomach crawl. The last thing I'd want on my car is anything that actually says "Nismo". For me, Nismo is just Cheese-mo. What do you guys think?

U r exactly right. I never thought about it that way. No other car line has a performance variant that's not way better than the standard version. Lexus, Bmw, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche all make their performance vehicles impressively. I decided not 2 get the Cheese-Mo version because it's not worth $8k more. With $Bk I could come close 2 making the 370z a world beater. The Nismo model should have been close 2 $50k wit about 420hp 2 make it respectable. Most of us wouldn't own that version but that's not the point. Buyers would think about buying that version instead of M3's, ISF's, RS4's, AMG's and Porsche's. The GTR would still sell because those buyers want a supercar. Nissan dropped the ball on that one. Or should I say missed a gear. Sorry I know that was lame.

Sardis · 07-19-2009, 08:49 PM

I agree 100%. I think Nissan knew they had to offer more HP this time around, but it is so meager and available at one end of the range, it's basically stock.

Lexus, the makers of the most sedate luxury cars on the planet, even managed an impressive IS model, with the ISF.

I think there is a market for a more upmarket Z. It doesn't need to compete with the GTR. It doesn't need AWD, it does not need all the amazing tech. The Z is Nissan's more simple RWD sports car.

400 ish HP.
Recaro Seats
Upgraded Brakes
Suspension Work..
Interior work..

You have something akin to an M, perhaps less luxurious, but sportier and lighter weight for maybe 20k less. You have a real value, an JDM Vette if you will.

Honestly, I think they tarnish the Nismo name with release. The handling of the 350 Nismo, at the very least, was a noticeable improvement. You don't get spot welds, or even an oil cooler. Basically what you have is an over priced Z with bolt ons.

I'd rather these additions be labeled a "track" model, because calling it is a Nismo, is a bit of a disgrace considering what has been branded Nismo in Japan

The Nismo will always be a low volume car. I can't tell you how long the 350 Nismos sat on the lot of the Nissan dealer I frequent. I doubt this 370 Nismo will move in commanding numbers. So the sales argument is a false starter IMO. The car is always going to be low volume, it should be at least special.

spearfish25 · 07-19-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardis

I'd rather these additions be labeled a "track" model, because calling it is a Nismo, is a bit of a disgrace considering what has been branded Nismo in Japan

Exactly. The current Nismo version should just be a check box optional upgrade package on the base Z. A true Nismo Z should be a different, better beast all together. All Nissan has done is tarnish the Nismo line.

07-19-2009, 06:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	I bet I could beat the Nismo Z and save money with my base Z with sport package. Changes: ~Upgraded suspension - Aftermarket 1,000USD (BC Racing BR Type Coilovers) ~Tires - 1200USD (Your choice, this price will get you plenty) ~HP gain - HFC 450USD (Berk) I am only at 2650USD and I already out handle and have the same gains as the Nismo Z. Other price parts, body kit can probably be picked up from Nissan for maybe 3,000USD, and I can throw in an exhaust for 1200 and be far above the HP of the Nismo. All this for 6850USD, which would put my price of 30,500 plus 6850 right around the price of the Nismo Z. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-19-2009, 06:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	The issue with just saying, drop 10k into a TT kit is, there is more than just that 10k for the parts plus install. There is maintenance you have to deal with, chance of a major problem happening which will be out your own pocket. If Nissan did a 370TT with a factory warranty then that would be great. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

07-19-2009, 08:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sardis Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 72 Drives: EX Z Owner Rep Power: 16	I agree 100%. I think Nissan knew they had to offer more HP this time around, but it is so meager and available at one end of the range, it's basically stock. Lexus, the makers of the most sedate luxury cars on the planet, even managed an impressive IS model, with the ISF. I think there is a market for a more upmarket Z. It doesn't need to compete with the GTR. It doesn't need AWD, it does not need all the amazing tech. The Z is Nissan's more simple RWD sports car. 400 ish HP. Recaro Seats Upgraded Brakes Suspension Work.. Interior work.. You have something akin to an M, perhaps less luxurious, but sportier and lighter weight for maybe 20k less. You have a real value, an JDM Vette if you will. Honestly, I think they tarnish the Nismo name with release. The handling of the 350 Nismo, at the very least, was a noticeable improvement. You don't get spot welds, or even an oil cooler. Basically what you have is an over priced Z with bolt ons. I'd rather these additions be labeled a "track" model, because calling it is a Nismo, is a bit of a disgrace considering what has been branded Nismo in Japan The Nismo will always be a low volume car. I can't tell you how long the 350 Nismos sat on the lot of the Nissan dealer I frequent. I doubt this 370 Nismo will move in commanding numbers. So the sales argument is a false starter IMO. The car is always going to be low volume, it should be at least special. Last edited by Sardis; 07-19-2009 at 08:57 PM.

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07-19-2009, 06:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
antennahead A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 15,181 Drives: '07 Z4 "M" Roadster Rep Power: 58	Well (grabs heat shield, lol) ..... at least it looks less "cheese-mo" than the 350 Nismo, IMO. The rear spoiler is the thing that really puts it over the top for me, screams boy-racer, but to each his own. As far as NISMO (Nissan Motorsports racing), I don't think it's really fair to confuse that with the perception we seem to have of the 370Z Nismo. John

07-19-2009, 08:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
Brizzie Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Loganville,GA Posts: 23 Drives: 08 white altima sdn Rep Power: 17	If tha Nismo had at least 375 hp and it cost under 50G.. I would definitely do it