Nissan 370Z Forum  

Car and Driver's Cars Worth Waiting For: 2016 Z

Originally Posted by Cmike2780 It's not light, but it's not that heavy. It needs to lose around 300 lbs. with a bump in hp. Any lower and you're sacrificing size/cabin

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z General Area > Nissan 370Z General Discussions


Like Tree104Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-28-2013, 05:18 PM   #121 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
UNKNOWN_370's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: ny'r livn in tx
Posts: 8,687
Drives: well over 130m.p.h.
Rep Power: 14858
UNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 View Post
It's not light, but it's not that heavy. It needs to lose around 300 lbs. with a bump in hp. Any lower and you're sacrificing size/cabin room and increasing the price by using more lightweight materials. It definitely needs to be a tad leaner, but as the GT-R proves, it's not always about weight. Granted it's not nor should it be awd, but some of that GT-R wizardry has to be somewhat usable in a rwd setup.
With a better alignment and tire selection, it may not even need a bump in power. But i would love to see an extra 30lbs of torque, to give that fear of being uncontrollable at the limit while in a corner.
Cmike2780 likes this.
__________________
Favorite Quote.
"I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980
UNKNOWN_370 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 09:32 PM   #122 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Magic Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,427
Drives: 17 6MT M2
Rep Power: 18754
Magic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond reputeMagic Bus has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thought I'd add some interesting stats regarding the debate on price or the economic situation regarding the sales of Z's. This is not scientific and the models may or have changed during this period, so derive from it what you want. I picked these years because the American economy began it's slide in 2007, so 2006 was the last good full year. I chose 2009 also because the stock market stopped it's slide. Numbers are from goodcarbadcar.net

US Sales only.
Nissan Z 2006 - 24,635, 2009 - 13,117, 2012 - 7,338
Corvette 2006 - 36,518, 2009 - 13,934, 2012 - 14,132
Cayman 2006 - 7,025, 2009 - 1,966, 2012 - 462
Audi TT 2006 - 954, 2009 - 1,935, 2012 2,226

One anomaly noticed, Audi TT Year 2007 - 4,356, Year 2008 - 4486
Magic Bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:26 AM   #123 (permalink)
Base Member
 
gpolak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 55
Drives: 2010 370Z T/SP 6MT
Rep Power: 14
gpolak is on a distinguished road
Default

You can buy this car right now. It's called the Hyundai Veloster. Ewwww. Come on Nissan, you can do much better than that.

gpolak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:44 AM   #124 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Mt Tam I am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: California
Posts: 10,709
Drives: 370Z T/S/N 6MT & XKE
Rep Power: 3843
Mt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond reputeMt Tam I am has a reputation beyond repute
Default

This article seems suspect but Nissan could stay on the track of competing with Porsche and BMW instead of FRS/BRZ. 350 HP won't cut it either.
__________________
"Does the carpet match the drapes? NO!!! I don't date bald women."
Nissan Motorsports 34R Oil Cooler. Stillen CBE. Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars. KW Variant 3 Coilover System. Stillen Gen3 CAI. Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Stillen Brake Ducts. Carbotech™ XP10/XP8 Pads. Z1 Front Rotors. Z1 Stainless Brake Lines. Two degrees of camber
Mt Tam I am is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 01:35 AM   #125 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
/Angelo350Z/'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,230
Drives: Z34 | MK7 | F82
Rep Power: 3660
/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute/Angelo350Z/ has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 View Post
Would you really? That Z better change to an MR platform for that kinda money. You're buggin!!! PDK and other upscale tech is a huge reason for porsche upcost. We don't have tech like that to be paying that much money.I think the american car market proved you can have over 400hp for 33k. Add Z quality to it. $43k

Ughh... The Z benchmarks as a budget Cayman, not 911.
Sure, why not? How much is a base Corvette? Can you think of a modern muscle car that weighs close to 3100 lbs? So yes, I would pay that much for that kind of a Z.
b15 likes this.
__________________

2013 MB NISSAN 370Z SPORT
/Angelo350Z/ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:39 PM   #126 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Spikuh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Ark
Posts: 2,357
Drives: '09 370z
Rep Power: 21
Spikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 View Post
It's not light, but it's not that heavy. It needs to lose around 300 lbs. with a bump in hp. Any lower and you're sacrificing size/cabin room and increasing the price by using more lightweight materials. It definitely needs to be a tad leaner, but as the GT-R proves, it's not always about weight. Granted it's not nor should it be awd, but some of that GT-R wizardry has to be somewhat usable in a rwd setup.
Would absolutely LOVE to see them pick up the DCT and throw the tranny in back like the GTR. They could change nothing else but those two things and I would jump on it in a heart beat. They could even leave on the 2013 front fascia.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s View Post
Today in the OG Conf Room: Strippers vs Girlfriends, which is more cost effective?
Spikuh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:43 PM   #127 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Chuck33079's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 12,265
Drives: 2011 370ztt
Rep Power: 29538
Chuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikuh View Post
Would absolutely LOVE to see them pick up the DCT and throw the tranny in back like the GTR. They could change nothing else but those two things and I would jump on it in a heart beat. They could even leave on the 2013 front fascia.
I'll pass on the DCT, but the transaxle would be great. The problem is the cost of something like that. People are already complaining that the Z isn't a great value at $35-45k. Adding something like that would cost quite a bit of money, especially when you have so few sales to amortize the costs over. And then it would be too close to the GTR, Nissan's halo car. They won't let that happen. It's the same reason the Cayman will never get as good of an engine as a 911. Car manufacturers don't want to cannibalize halo car sales.
__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent
Chuck33079 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:48 PM   #128 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
UNKNOWN_370's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: ny'r livn in tx
Posts: 8,687
Drives: well over 130m.p.h.
Rep Power: 14858
UNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond reputeUNKNOWN_370 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/ View Post
Sure, why not? How much is a base Corvette? Can you think of a modern muscle car that weighs close to 3100 lbs? So yes, I would pay that much for that kind of a Z.
Unlike most. I don't compare the Z with muscle cars. I believe Z capability against muscle cars is nice but should be an afterthought. The porsche cayman with chrono pkg should be the benchmark.
Before i think of what other car companies are doing. I think of where the Z originated from and its philosophy of use. (For all you TNP'ers out there. lol) From there i think of the car Nissan chooses to benchmark. From there i make in my head a parameter of expectations where mustangs and corvettes don't come into play.

Now if the end result is, the Z could hang with the muscle cars??? Kewl beans. I got more than I expected. But I'm looking at a car called the cayman when i consider my parameters.

I believe people who deeply desire muscle car performance should just go ahead and purchase muscle cars.
__________________
Favorite Quote.
"I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980
UNKNOWN_370 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:51 PM   #129 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Spikuh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Ark
Posts: 2,357
Drives: '09 370z
Rep Power: 21
Spikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud ofSpikuh has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 View Post
I'll pass on the DCT, but the transaxle would be great. The problem is the cost of something like that. People are already complaining that the Z isn't a great value at $35-45k. Adding something like that would cost quite a bit of money, especially when you have so few sales to amortize the costs over. And then it would be too close to the GTR, Nissan's halo car. They won't let that happen. It's the same reason the Cayman will never get as good of an engine as a 911. Car manufacturers don't want to cannibalize halo car sales.
If they would give us a better MT, I would be ok without the DCT, but I am just so jaded against their ability to do that.

However, considering the Z uses a shared platform, if the other vehicles sell decently, I could see switch to a transaxle as not moving the needle too terribly much on pricing. Could be entirely wrong though. Especially if the other cars are not selling well and if switching to transaxle will mess up too much with those other vehicles.

Still....dare to dream.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s View Post
Today in the OG Conf Room: Strippers vs Girlfriends, which is more cost effective?
Spikuh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:52 PM   #130 (permalink)
Track Member
 
MMC Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 661
Drives: 2015 GT-R
Rep Power: 17
MMC Racing has a spectacular aura aboutMMC Racing has a spectacular aura aboutMMC Racing has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 View Post
I'll pass on the DCT, but the transaxle would be great. The problem is the cost of something like that. People are already complaining that the Z isn't a great value at $35-45k. Adding something like that would cost quite a bit of money, especially when you have so few sales to amortize the costs over. And then it would be too close to the GTR, Nissan's halo car. They won't let that happen. It's the same reason the Cayman will never get as good of an engine as a 911. Car manufacturers don't want to cannibalize halo car sales.
The 911 is a huge range of configurations from 85k - 180k starting price. Porsche probably makes money on each and every one.

Nissan has 2 sports cars not making them any money right now. Nissan needs the Z to have more range by keeping the base model in the 30k area and then a true high performance model in the 50-55k area. The NISMO model needs more than marginally better performance. It needs another engine choice.
m4a1mustang and Tick64 like this.
__________________
2014 F150 Raptor, 2014 Mazda 3, 2015 Nissan GT-R
MMC Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:56 PM   #131 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Chuck33079's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 12,265
Drives: 2011 370ztt
Rep Power: 29538
Chuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I don't have a problem with my 6mt, but I seem to be in the minority here on that one. Either Nissan would have to redesign the shared platform to accept a transaxle, or the Z would have to be a one-off. Both of those are prohibitively expensive, especially for a car selling <10k units a year. The best we can hope for mechanically is moving to DI and adding some torque/mpg that way, and cutting back on the weight. Anything beyond that seems pretty unikely.
__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent
Chuck33079 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 01:03 PM   #132 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Chuck33079's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 12,265
Drives: 2011 370ztt
Rep Power: 29538
Chuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC Racing View Post
The 911 is a huge range of configurations from 85k - 180k starting price. Porsche probably makes money on each and every one.

Nissan has 2 sports cars not making them any money right now. Nissan needs the Z to have more range by keeping the base model in the 30k area and then a true high performance model in the 50-55k area. The NISMO model needs more than marginally better performance. It needs another engine choice.
Right, but a $70k Cayman with the 991 motor would draw sales from the $85k 911. That's the point I was trying to make.

I agree that the Nismo needs to be more special, but I don't think any scenario where the Z ends up in the $55k range works. That's pretty much what killed the 300ZX. Splitting the line for two very different models is a huge risk for a vehicle that sells so few units. I don't see Renault taking that kind of a risk.
m4a1mustang and Caustic like this.
__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent
Chuck33079 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 03:16 PM   #133 (permalink)
Track Member
 
MMC Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 661
Drives: 2015 GT-R
Rep Power: 17
MMC Racing has a spectacular aura aboutMMC Racing has a spectacular aura aboutMMC Racing has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 View Post
Right, but a $70k Cayman with the 991 motor would draw sales from the $85k 911. That's the point I was trying to make.

I agree that the Nismo needs to be more special, but I don't think any scenario where the Z ends up in the $55k range works. That's pretty much what killed the 300ZX. Splitting the line for two very different models is a huge risk for a vehicle that sells so few units. I don't see Renault taking that kind of a risk.
What is more risky - offering the same model with different levels at different price points or introducing another model - a.k.a a BRZ competitor. I think the magic formula is to find a way to take the next Z down in weight a little and stock power and compete with the BRZ/FRS while also having a superior engine/trim option for a high end car. Continue to share the high end engine with the G/Q sister car.

The biggest risk is to turn out a slightly refreshed model that does nothing for sales - the 370z effect.
__________________
2014 F150 Raptor, 2014 Mazda 3, 2015 Nissan GT-R
MMC Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #134 (permalink)
Enthusiast Member
 
ZBro16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 370
Drives: A Z.
Rep Power: 14
ZBro16 will become famous soon enoughZBro16 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC Racing View Post
The 911 is a huge range of configurations from 85k - 180k starting price. Porsche probably makes money on each and every one.

Nissan has 2 sports cars not making them any money right now. Nissan needs the Z to have more range by keeping the base model in the 30k area and then a true high performance model in the 50-55k area. The NISMO model needs more than marginally better performance. It needs another engine choice.
I'm going to go ahead and say this about the 911 argument. They have been making the 911 since the 60s. It takes time to build something where you can have that kind of lineup yet still be profitable. Really not a fair argument there. Porsche is a sports car brand that has been building sports cars for decade.

Nissan/Infiniti is, well, a grab bag where the business model isn't nearly the same as a company like Porsche. They're mass producing vehicles. Porsche isn't. The GT-R is a halo car that can get away with not necessarily making a profit. It is meant to serve as an attention-getter for the brand meant gather profit in a more indirect way. What they've done with the GT-R is nothing short of remarkable, and I guarantee you it has gotten Porsche's attention.

As far as the Z, the 370 is a victim of circumstance in the grand scheme of things in a great many ways (rough economy, competition). I really don't want to beat the dead horse here - we just need to see if Nissan is serious about their legacy vehicle. The Z is the icon for the brand, as we shall see if it gets proper love.
ZBro16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 03:25 PM   #135 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Chuck33079's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 12,265
Drives: 2011 370ztt
Rep Power: 29538
Chuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond reputeChuck33079 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC Racing View Post
What is more risky - offering the same model with different levels at different price points or introducing another model - a.k.a a BRZ competitor. I think the magic formula is to find a way to take the next Z down in weight a little and stock power and compete with the BRZ/FRS while also having a superior engine/trim option for a high end car. Continue to share the high end engine with the G/Q sister car.

The biggest risk is to turn out a slightly refreshed model that does nothing for sales - the 370z effect.
If they decide to do that, they might as well kill the base trim of the Z altogether and move it upmarket. Bring back the 240sx to compete with the Toyobaru. Then you hit both market segments. Build it off the same platform to save costs.

Or, keep the car pretty much the same and buy a **** ton of advertising in the car mags. That's usually enough to get it to be the winner of all the comparison tests.
__________________
2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent
Chuck33079 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2016 Nissan 240z info LCR Autowerks Nissan 370Z Photos / Spyshots / Video / Media Gallery 45 11-03-2012 10:27 AM
2016 Fuel Regulations and Sports Cars 370zbb Nissan 370Z General Discussions 9 08-02-2012 12:22 AM
10 Cars Worth Waiting For in 2011 2theextreme The Lounge (Off Topic) 25 01-11-2011 08:19 AM
Best Driver's Cars (Motor Trend Mag) StevieG Nissan 370Z General Discussions 7 08-31-2009 02:53 PM
Is waiting worth it? (more time=lower price?) U-NVmyZ? Nissan 370Z Pricing / Ordering Discussions 13 05-01-2009 08:51 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2