Why can't very capeable people do what Ford can ....

Mt Tam I am · 07-26-2012, 01:41 PM

We all have seen the articles that Nissan is considering a smaller Z car in the future.

QUOTE: The engine is the one thing that Nakamura pointed to as needing changed, as the 3.7-liter V-6 just isn’t cutting it.

Nissan owns a V8. The 2011 Infiniti M56 debuted a new 5.6-liter aluminum-alloy V8 that produces at 420 hp and 417 lb-ft of torque. Why not use it?

CAFE (gas mileage) standards have been mentioned as well. (O.K., I understand that but wait for final question.)

Also going back to the Z's roots. So why a turbo 4 cylinder? I do not recall a 4 cylinder since the Fairlady roadster, and it was not called a Z.

Why can't very capeable people do what Ford can with their V8's and turn out 400+ HP and get better mileage?

Please forgive my ignorance. Thanks. I hope this was not a rant.

kenchan · 07-26-2012, 01:42 PM

capeable? you mean batman?

TerribleONE · 07-26-2012, 01:46 PM

subd...

Kingbaby · 07-26-2012, 01:47 PM

I've been saying the same for quiet some time since the 370Z debuted...many will say it will cause inline competition that may detour sales from the GTR. Others will say that Nissan is keeping the Z somewhat with it's past i.e. entry level & fun. Like you and many others we wanna see a Factor Fire breathing Dragon? So many factors...at less the VHR has a thriving aftermarket...

kenchan · 07-26-2012, 01:51 PM

there's cost. then there's cost... and cost and cost and cost and economy and you end up with the same engine used on G37's due to cost.

nakamura and french guy knows this. but they still decided to launch the 370Z with that engine so i am not sure why they are facepalming now. i think the car is brilliant for what it is.

Lug · 07-26-2012, 02:17 PM

Those "capeable people at Ford" just introduced the Focus ST with as turbo4 that has 252hp and 270 lb/tq and still gets 32 mpg hwy. Ford is going the same way Nakamura is talking about. I'd bet a turbo4 is in the nextgen Mustang as the lower powered offering.

whoady4shoady · 07-26-2012, 02:21 PM

I just want to go fast.

Lug · 07-26-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

there's cost. then there's cost... and cost and cost and cost and economy and you end up with the same engine used on G37's due to cost.

nakamura and french guy knows this. but they still decided to launch the 370Z with that engine so i am not sure why they are facepalming now. i think the car is brilliant for what it is.

This. It falls right between the FR-S/BRZ and the Mustang on power/weight/handling and will have sales sucked in either direction. When it was introduced in 2009, the Mustang wasn't even a real competitor and the FR-S/BRZ was only a concept. Hopefully, the 201X (5?) will reduce weight/add power to put it back on top.

whoady4shoady · 07-26-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

This. It falls right between the FR-S/BRZ and the Mustang on power/weight/handling and will have sales sucked in either direction. When it was introduced in 2009, the Mustang wasn't even a real competitor and the FR-S/BRZ was only a concept. Hopefully, the 201X (5?) will reduce weight/add power to put it back on top.

By todays standards it can definitely be done, and for a reasonable price.

kenchan · 07-26-2012, 02:26 PM

made in china?

Kingbaby · 07-26-2012, 02:29 PM

then the next Z will need more than an oil cooler

chris410 · 07-26-2012, 02:38 PM

I agree with those stating that the 370 was developed as is to keep it from competing with the GTR. The motor responds well to boost, the numbers easily compare to the GTR's numbers so it would not make sense for Nissan to offer a SC or Turbo version of the 370. Given the price, if the 370 came with let's say 400HP I think a lot of people would look to the 370 over the GTR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

Those "capeable people at Ford" just introduced the Focus ST with as turbo4 that has 252hp and 270 lb/tq and still gets 32 mpg hwy. Ford is going the same way Nakamura is talking about. I'd bet a turbo4 is in the nextgen Mustang as the lower powered offering.

I hope they do not put a turbo 4 in the mustang. A V6 for the "regular" model sure but a turbo 4? The car is too big and heavy unless they completely move away from the muscle car roots the Mustang has.

I have seen some pictures of what the next gen Mustang is going to look like and IMO it is the wrong direction. Either way I could care less...I have my GT500 and I love it...if Ford does go down what I consider the wrong path I'd pick up a 2013 GT500 later down the road if I had to. Although, I plan on keeping my GT500 for a long time and it's not a daily driver so except for catastrophic engine failure or accident I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Just my opinion on what Ford should do with the Mustang...keep it a muscle car or improve upon and evolve the current platform ie IRS weight improvement. I could see the GT500 coming out with an auto version, imagine what the 2013 GT500 would do with a transmission similar to that of the GTR let alone IRS added to that equation.

my2004Z · 07-26-2012, 02:42 PM

Ford is the wrong comparison since they only have the Mustang to work with. Chevrolet has different models that threaten to overlap when the highest output option is matched to the lowest option of the next rung up which is more comparable to Nissan's product structure.

I imagine a Z SpecV with 425-480 hp with launch control, and the most sophisticated braking and traction control system available matching up very closely to the 2007 GT-R performance numbers. Keep it under $50K out the door and you regain the title of best performance car for your dollar.

whoady4shoady · 07-26-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris410

I agree with those stating that the 370 was developed as is to keep it from competing with the GTR. The motor responds well to boost, the numbers easily compare to the GTR's numbers so it would not make sense for Nissan to offer a SC or Turbo version of the 370. Given the price, if the 370 came with let's say 400HP I think a lot of people would look to the 370 over the GTR.

I hope they do not put a turbo 4 in the mustang. A V6 for the "regular" model sure but a turbo 4? The car is too big and heavy unless they completely move away from the muscle car roots the Mustang has.

I have seen some pictures of what the next gen Mustang is going to look like and IMO it is the wrong direction. Either way I could care less...I have my GT500 and I love it...if Ford does go down what I consider the wrong path I'd pick up a 2013 GT500 later down the road if I had to. Although, I plan on keeping my GT500 for a long time and it's not a daily driver so except for catastrophic engine failure or accident I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Just my opinion on what Ford should do with the Mustang...keep it a muscle car or improve upon and evolve the current platform ie IRS weight improvement. I could see the GT500 coming out with an auto version, imagine what the 2013 GT500 would do with a transmission similar to that of the GTR let alone IRS added to that equation.

chris410 · 07-26-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my2004Z

Ford is the wrong comparison since they only have the Mustang to work with. Chevrolet has different models that threaten to overlap when the highest output option is matched to the lowest option of the next rung up which is more comparable to Nissan's product structure.

I imagine a Z SpecV with 425-480 hp with launch control, and the most sophisticated braking and traction control system available matching up very closely to the 2007 GT-R performance numbers. Keep it under $50K out the door and you regain the title of best performance car for your dollar.

Problem is if they did this not many would opt for a GTR.

07-26-2012, 01:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mt Tam I am A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California Posts: 10,709 Drives: 370Z T/S/N 6MT & XKE Rep Power: 3843	Why can't very capeable people do what Ford can .... We all have seen the articles that Nissan is considering a smaller Z car in the future. QUOTE: *The engine is the one thing that Nakamura pointed to as needing changed, as the 3.7-liter V-6 just isn’t cutting it.* Nissan owns a V8. The 2011 Infiniti M56 debuted a new 5.6-liter aluminum-alloy V8 that produces at 420 hp and 417 lb-ft of torque. Why not use it? CAFE (gas mileage) standards have been mentioned as well. (O.K., I understand that but wait for final question.) Also going back to the Z's roots. So why a turbo 4 cylinder? I do not recall a 4 cylinder since the Fairlady roadster, and it was not called a Z. Why can't very capeable people do what Ford can with their V8's and turn out 400+ HP and get better mileage? Please forgive my ignorance. Thanks. I hope this was not a rant. __________________ "Does the carpet match the drapes? NO!!! I don't date bald women." Nissan Motorsports 34R Oil Cooler. Stillen CBE. Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars. KW Variant 3 Coilover System. Stillen Gen3 CAI. Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Stillen Brake Ducts. Carbotech™ XP10/XP8 Pads. Z1 Front Rotors. Z1 Stainless Brake Lines. Two degrees of camber

07-26-2012, 01:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
TerribleONE A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Socal Posts: 10,203 Drives: WOT Rep Power: 5850	subd... __________________ 638WHP 541WTQ @ 13.5PSI Build thread

07-26-2012, 02:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 19	Those "capeable people at Ford" just introduced the Focus ST with as turbo4 that has 252hp and 270 lb/tq and still gets 32 mpg hwy. Ford is going the same way Nakamura is talking about. I'd bet a turbo4 is in the nextgen Mustang as the lower powered offering. __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs

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07-26-2012, 01:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	capeable? you mean batman?

07-26-2012, 01:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	there's cost. then there's cost... and cost and cost and cost and economy and you end up with the same engine used on G37's due to cost. nakamura and french guy knows this. but they still decided to launch the 370Z with that engine so i am not sure why they are facepalming now. i think the car is brilliant for what it is.

07-26-2012, 02:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	made in china?

07-26-2012, 02:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
my2004Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 285 Drives: 09' 370Z w/Sport 7AT Rep Power: 37	Ford is the wrong comparison since they only have the Mustang to work with. Chevrolet has different models that threaten to overlap when the highest output option is matched to the lowest option of the next rung up which is more comparable to Nissan's product structure. I imagine a Z SpecV with 425-480 hp with launch control, and the most sophisticated braking and traction control system available matching up very closely to the 2007 GT-R performance numbers. Keep it under $50K out the door and you regain the title of best performance car for your dollar.