2015 speculation

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-01-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbreath

Also no 2+2. Thats a waste because everyone knows that the back seats are useless.

Though I agree with you and probably 95% of the forum agrees

NOT EVERYONE in the general public will... camaro's and mustangs sell because they have USELESS back seats. If you can squeeze two kids under the age of 10 in a backseat? A Husband can justify his purchase to his wife.
Now we all know, in a mustang, there's no way in hell you will fit 2 adults comfortably in the backseat. And the camaro may leave a little more headroom but... where are the legs supposed to go??? 2+2 sells because you can do "something" with the area, whether its kids or junk storage.
You are talking from a performance drivers standpoint. The Z doesn't sell well because out of 45000+- units sold over the years. 7500 went to enthusiasts. 15000 went to. Z admirers and 22,500 sold to married men, mild life crisis guys, and retiree's getting there last breath on a nice sports car before they can't drive anymore.

The market has to be expanded. If you sell it as a 2+2, you will have an extra 25,000 units sold to some idiots who wants to throw his claustrophobic kid in the back and call it a split family and performance car all at the same time, while his kid is getting hooked on ativan's so he can survive the ride. I see mustang owners doing it every day.

Suggestive advertising in america outpowers common sense. Give an american consumer half an excuse to justify a sports car purchase to his family (ie backseats & automatic) He's on it like stink on dodoo. And in the end, these cars are built to sell. Nissan figures the enthusiasts can modify what they don't like. As long as the platform is good for the track? They can still sell to enthusiasts.

Cmike2780 · 08-01-2012, 11:56 AM

I am selfish in wanting to have less Z's on the road instead of more?

zguynate · 08-01-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Though I agree with you and probably 95% of the forum agrees

NOT EVERYONE in the general public will... camaro's and mustangs sell because they have USELESS back seats. If you can squeeze two kids under the age of 10 in a backseat? A Husband can justify his purchase to his wife.
Now we all know, in a mustang, there's no way in hell you will fit 2 adults comfortably in the backseat. And the camaro may leave a little more headroom but... where are the legs supposed to go??? 2+2 sells because you can do "something" with the area, whether its kids or junk storage.
You are talking from a performance drivers standpoint. The Z doesn't sell well because out of 45000+- units sold over the years. 7500 went to enthusiasts. 15000 went to. Z admirers and 22,500 sold to married men, mild life crisis guys, and retiree's getting there last breath on a nice sports car before they can't drive anymore.

The market has to be expanded. If you sell it as a 2+2, you will have an extra 25,000 units sold to some idiots who wants to throw his claustrophobic kid in the back and call it a split family and performance car all at the same time, while his kid is getting hooked on ativan's so he can survive the ride. I see mustang owners doing it every day.

Suggestive advertising in america outpowers common sense. Give an american consumer half an excuse to justify a sports car purchase to his family (ie backseats & automatic) He's on it like stink on dodoo. And in the end, these cars are built to sell. Nissan figures the enthusiasts can modify what they don't like. As long as the platform is good for the track? They can still sell to enthusiasts.

Well put good sir.

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-01-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

I am selfish in wanting to have less Z's on the road instead of more?

I'd be fine with a sustainable amount of units... I would like the Z to go ahead and not backwards or cease to exist in the USA... 15k-20k units a year will ensure there's enough money to make the car progressive through the years.
5 to 10k units a year is why nissan will simplify the Z and now decultify its, current standing by going more mainstream.

This is why i was never a fan of too low volume sales. Lets keep it real. The 2013 refresh is shytty because nissan isn't making much money on the Z. If they did? We,d have more hp than the v6 gencoupe. but now we come in second in the v6 hp wars... Why? low sales.

Cmike2780 · 08-01-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I'd be fine with a sustainable amount of units... I would like the Z to go ahead and not backwards or cease to exist in the USA... 15k-20k units a year will ensure there's enough money to make the car progressive through the years.
5 to 10k units a year is why nissan will simplify the Z and now decultify its, current standing by going more mainstream.

This is why i was never a fan of too low volume sales. Lets keep it real. The 2013 refresh is shytty because nissan isn't making much money on the Z. If they did? We,d have more hp than the v6 gencoupe. but now we come in second in the v6 hp wars... Why? low sales.

They always leave out the Nismo in the hp wars.

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-01-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

They always leave out the Nismo in the hp wars.

I guess cuz the nismo has identical performance accel numbers and is limited production???Nismo isnt any faster or slower than a base Z with sport pkg. Plus it cant be had for less than low 43's now. a gencoupe gets you 350 horses @ 31k. We lost bruh the hp war terribly.

Maybe 2014? wwe'll see the new engine as a preview in the Z34??? kinda like the 07 G35 was the only year to see the VQ35hr???? The rarest vq engine out there.

b1adesofcha0s · 08-01-2012, 03:01 PM

If anything we might see a preview of the new engine with the next G.

LMBmikeZ · 08-01-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I guess cuz the nismo has identical performance accel numbers and is limited production???Nismo isnt any faster or slower than a base Z with sport pkg. Plus it cant be had for less than low 43's now. a gencoupe gets you 350 horses @ 31k. We lost bruh the hp war terribly.

Maybe 2014? wwe'll see the new engine as a preview in the Z34??? kinda like the 07 G35 was the only year to see the VQ35hr???? The rarest vq engine out there.

I wouldn't say we lost, that is all market ploys! It is a number they had some engineer calculate off the flywheel, not WHP like when measured on a dyno. I know for a fact that we are faster then the genesis I can beat two guys I know with them all day! Line them up dyno vs dyno or on the track and we wil win each and every time!

ZMan8 · 08-01-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMBmikeZ

I wouldn't say we lost, that is all market ploys! It is a number they had some engineer calculate off the flywheel, not WHP like when measured on a dyno. I know for a fact that we are faster then the genesis I can beat two guys I know with them all day! Line them up dyno vs dyno or on the track and we wil win each and every time!

Genesis does not put that down power well, so like you said it's just marketing ploys. Unfortunately most consumers when given the following hypothetical options and not factoring in looks/brand loyalty.

NA V-6, 360 hp, 3500 LBS
NA V-6 300 hp, 3100 LBS

Will pick the 360 hp car.

LMBmikeZ · 08-01-2012, 11:43 PM

no I hear ya same as people would rather see

$49.99 vs $50 they would think it is so much cheaper!

this is at my local grocery store to sadly

you tell me.... who's really getting squeezed?

370zbb · 08-02-2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

It's nearly impossible to build it cheap, safe, lightweight and have the same characteristics of a modern sports car.

I guess my point is, to achieve everything we want in a sports car, we need to use more exotic materials like carbon fiber, which has gotten a lot less expensive to produce. I read somewhere that the new Mclaren MP4-12c cost a 1/4 or a 1/3 to produce than the F1 because of new techniques. Lets hope it trickles down to us mere mortals.

You've probably seen this before. This shocked me the first time I saw it. I thought most of these old cars were tanks compared to new cars, but the thing just disintegrates. I can't imagine how a 240 would stack up.

You are absolutely right! There has to be a paradigm shift in the manufacturing of cars. Pre-preg Carbon fiber is expensive only because it takes a long time to make (laying down fibers, Baking, etc) compared to Steel which can be stamped in about 6 seconds then welded or bolted together.

Maybe in about a decade we'll see huge cost-saving methods. It only gets better from here.

scruffydog · 08-02-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Though I agree with you and probably 95% of the forum agrees

NOT EVERYONE in the general public will... camaro's and mustangs sell because they have USELESS back seats. If you can squeeze two kids under the age of 10 in a backseat? A Husband can justify his purchase to his wife.
Now we all know, in a mustang, there's no way in hell you will fit 2 adults comfortably in the backseat. And the camaro may leave a little more headroom but... where are the legs supposed to go??? 2+2 sells because you can do "something" with the area, whether its kids or junk storage.
You are talking from a performance drivers standpoint. The Z doesn't sell well because out of 45000+- units sold over the years. 7500 went to enthusiasts. 15000 went to. Z admirers and 22,500 sold to married men, mild life crisis guys, and retiree's getting there last breath on a nice sports car before they can't drive anymore.

The market has to be expanded. If you sell it as a 2+2, you will have an extra 25,000 units sold to some idiots who wants to throw his claustrophobic kid in the back and call it a split family and performance car all at the same time, while his kid is getting hooked on ativan's so he can survive the ride. I see mustang owners doing it every day.

Suggestive advertising in america outpowers common sense. Give an american consumer half an excuse to justify a sports car purchase to his family (ie backseats & automatic) He's on it like stink on dodoo. And in the end, these cars are built to sell. Nissan figures the enthusiasts can modify what they don't like. As long as the platform is good for the track? They can still sell to enthusiasts.

I completely agree with you although I don't like the idea of a 2+2 for the Z. From the get go the Z was meant to serve the purpose of being a driver's car and it served well. I never thought the Z was meant to drive people around to meant to be convenient to everyday life chores. Sadly, these are the justifications some need to own a car as such. It is a luxuary to own an impractical like the Z. In the end of all this, as much as i enjoy seeing very few of these around the streets, I like to hope Nissan is able to continue pouring money into R&D for the next Z. As an automanufacturer, they have a lot more fire to put out to make it a likeable company while staying profitable. A lot of times if it means 90% of the market are in for a car that can do more than just taking corners fast and look sexy, more emphasize will have to put towards those cars. In Nissan, the Z is what people would "want" but less than 1/4 of those people actually pull the trigger to buy. Unless it's used or what not. Even the Nissan Maxima commercial tells the story that way....you guys remember that TV commercial where they stretched the 370z into a Maxima? Sad to say, that car pretty much borrowed most of its visual cues and technology from the 370z. Do I hate the fact that Nissan made our cars less unique because of it? Hell yes! But that's how it goes if it's bread and butter.

And you're prolly right about Nissan not spending much money on revising the 370z. It's limited bandwidth. It's not a high priority. So what if Nissan made a 370 hp boost from the last revision and reduced the 0-60s from 5.0 sec to 4.3 sec? Sure I'm super excited about it, because it can compete with the 135i and other V6s. But in terms of sales, it's not a big deal. Plus, Nissan have the GT-R to defend the brandname. (Which is why more development is put towards that car). They say when GT-R first came out in 2009, the sales was over 5000 units sold, and last year it dropped down to 500 something.

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-03-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMBmikeZ

I wouldn't say we lost, that is all market ploys! It is a number they had some engineer calculate off the flywheel, not WHP like when measured on a dyno. I know for a fact that we are faster then the genesis I can beat two guys I know with them all day! Line them up dyno vs dyno or on the track and we wil win each and every time!

Have you raced a 2013? i know every other year we hittin em' but, the gencoupe 60 and quarter times are statistically equal to our manual cars.
as far as rwhp... they were putting down equal whp when they had 310hp(premium). We were overrated by 6 bhp. they were underrated by 10 bhp we just had the weight and faster transmission advantage. (drm &srm) we have the weight advantage but they combated that with 350 standard bhp and a whopping 290lbs tq vs our lowly 270. I think stock for stock, we are on drivers race status with a fukkin hyundai. i called this on the refresh a year ago. N i called nissan would not address it till the new Z and our refresh would be garbage. I hoped for the best and as usual, knew nissan would make us brace for the worst and late bloom our status. I don't care ego wise cuz i know my skills. But for what we pay for a Z? I wouldn't want to be rivaling A HYUNDAI. Now i know how cayman owners feel.

PS. Anybody need some anal eaze to go with that $38.1k for a base+sport 6mt with full accesories +backup cam????

UNKNOWN_370 · 08-03-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffydog

I completely agree with you although I don't like the idea of a 2+2 for the Z. From the get go the Z was meant to serve the purpose of being a driver's car and it served well. I never thought the Z was meant to drive people around to meant to be convenient to everyday life chores. Sadly, these are the justifications some need to own a car as such. It is a luxuary to own an impractical like the Z. In the end of all this, as much as i enjoy seeing very few of these around the streets, I like to hope Nissan is able to continue pouring money into R&D for the next Z. As an automanufacturer, they have a lot more fire to put out to make it a likeable company while staying profitable. A lot of times if it means 90% of the market are in for a car that can do more than just taking corners fast and look sexy, more emphasize will have to put towards those cars. In Nissan, the Z is what people would "want" but less than 1/4 of those people actually pull the trigger to buy. Unless it's used or what not. Even the Nissan Maxima commercial tells the story that way....you guys remember that TV commercial where they stretched the 370z into a Maxima? Sad to say, that car pretty much borrowed most of its visual cues and technology from the 370z. Do I hate the fact that Nissan made our cars less unique because of it? Hell yes! But that's how it goes if it's bread and butter.

And you're prolly right about Nissan not spending much money on revising the 370z. It's limited bandwidth. It's not a high priority. So what if Nissan made a 370 hp boost from the last revision and reduced the 0-60s from 5.0 sec to 4.3 sec? Sure I'm super excited about it, because it can compete with the 135i and other V6s. But in terms of sales, it's not a big deal. Plus, Nissan have the GT-R to defend the brandname. (Which is why more development is put towards that car). They say when GT-R first came out in 2009, the sales was over 5000 units sold, and last year it dropped down to 500 something.

Twista · 08-03-2012, 03:52 PM

yea they cant go the way of a 2+2 for the Z car. Just like the other guy said with the maxima commercials they branded that car as the 4 door sports car. They made that into the car that dad could spend his money on and get performance as well. If they do that to the Z then it should be branded as the two door maxima. I honestly dont care what they do with the powertrain of the Z. As long as its faster, lighter, and still a two seater, then Id have no reason to not want to buy it.

08-01-2012, 11:56 AM	#122 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 29	I am selfish in wanting to have less Z's on the road instead of more? __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

08-01-2012, 03:01 PM	#127 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 141	If anything we might see a preview of the new engine with the next G. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

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08-03-2012, 03:52 PM	#135 (permalink)
Twista Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 12 Drives: 07 350z Rep Power: 16	yea they cant go the way of a 2+2 for the Z car. Just like the other guy said with the maxima commercials they branded that car as the 4 door sports car. They made that into the car that dad could spend his money on and get performance as well. If they do that to the Z then it should be branded as the two door maxima. I honestly dont care what they do with the powertrain of the Z. As long as its faster, lighter, and still a two seater, then Id have no reason to not want to buy it.