Another CSC failure?

370Z Purist · 07-07-2012, 06:18 AM

TL;DR:

I think my CSC failed. No warranty. What should I do?

So, I think I have fallen victim to Nissan's poor CSC. Or at least, I think it's the CSC.

I have a 2009, only 12.2K miles. Removed the clutch helper spring about 600 miles ago. I think I first noticed issues when the clutch pedal felt really mushy when cold, but would stiffen up and become more consistent with some driving. Unfortunately, I'm kind of ignorant sometimes.

I wanted to drive out, and without much of a deal, turned the motor over, disengaged the parking brake, and clutched in. First gear didn't engage. By that, the clutch went all the way in, but I didn't hear the chattering clutch become silent. It wouldn't bite first gear, almost as if it were locking me out. Kicked the clutch in a few times, managed to drop it into first and into the next gears. I figured it might have been me.

Well, over a 20 minute drive to my friend's house, the engagement point was literally a millimeter off the floor, and I occasionally couldn't even get the gears in. I'm surprised I even made it this far.

I know a little bit about this issue, enough to say it's either the dreaded CSC issue, or it's a throwout bearing (which I think is part of the CSC). One thing's for sure, I'm having this thing towed to the nearest dealer and getting it inspected... right after I reinstall the clutch helper spring (even though it's unrelated and it's only to ensure the dealer doesn't try to pull a fast one).

Those 12.2 thousand miles on the odometer weren't very harsh; spirited driving, a few launches at 3K (definitely not recently), and I don't drive retardedly. If that's a word. There's no clutch slip, as far as I can tell.

Some opinions would be appreciated!

EDIT:
Some post-posting thread searching, I remembered I posted in a thread about a similar, if not exactly the same component failure in the Tech Area. Unfortunately, the tech area is very much a quiet area with very few posts per day. However, the OP mentioned the idea of simply going with a stronger system from the get-go while the engine/transmission is dropped; new clutch + flywheel to accompany the ZSpeed CSC. Not a bad idea? It's a good thing the Z is a weekend car; I need new tires, too, but it looks like the RE11's are gonna have to wait a bit. Some suggestions on clutch/flywheel kits would be great, too. I know a few members are running Southbend clutches to good effect; the TZR looks interesting, but I don't know if it's for me. I don't mind a bit more pedal pressure, but I know for sure I don't need unsprung six pucks (or even sprung six pucks, for that matter). I don't think I'm ready for NHRA level street driving yet. All I want is a kit that will eat 500 torques without trouble. I don't even want to know about what happens over 500 horsepower anyway.

OKC Z · 07-09-2012, 07:23 AM

Dont buy the south bend. I have stage 2 kevlar/ flywheel kit and csc and hate the I got it installed.

370Z Purist · 07-09-2012, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKC Z

Dont buy the south bend. I have stage 2 kevlar/ flywheel kit and csc and hate the I got it installed.

Too much chatter?

ChrisSlicks · 07-09-2012, 08:03 AM

Nissan recommends that the CSC be replaced when the clutch is replaced, even with stock parts. They say it is something to do with contamination, but I think it is really just because the part is crappy. So much for "progress".

First thing, check the clutch fluid level. Consider bleeding the clutch line if there is no sign of fluid loss.

There is a chance that it is covered under the drivetrain warranty, but with an aftermarket clutch they might fight you on that one since the CSC directly engages the clutch pressure plate and any sizing error can cause problems. Did this clutch require a CSC adapter ring for proper engagement?

If it does need replacement I think the Z-speed is your best choice.

370Z Purist · 07-09-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Nissan recommends that the CSC be replaced when the clutch is replaced, even with stock parts. They say it is something to do with contamination, but I think it is really just because the part is crappy. So much for "progress".

First thing, check the clutch fluid level. Consider bleeding the clutch line if there is no sign of fluid loss.

There is a chance that it is covered under the drivetrain warranty, but with an aftermarket clutch they might fight you on that one since the CSC directly engages the clutch pressure plate and any sizing error can cause problems. Did this clutch require a CSC adapter ring for proper engagement?

If it does need replacement I think the Z-speed is your best choice.

I'm going aftermarket for a few reasons. I don't want to pay the huge labor charge pf dropping the transmission just to replace the CSC, and there's always the risk they'll tell me it's not covered. There's also the risk of the flimsy, plastic CSC failing again very soon afterwards. There's not a single sign of air in the clutch, since the fluid level is just below max (cold) and has never been touched, to my knowledge, since the car was bought. I am all stock right now, save for an axleback. The clutch pedal has also been extremely spongy for the several times I've depressed it over the course of a day. This is me considering going aftermarket clutch, flywheel, and CSC because I eventually want a twin turbo setup.

ChrisSlicks · 07-09-2012, 08:32 AM

My bad, got the impression that your clutch was already aftermarket.

I think you are a good candidate for a clutch bleed if you want to try and get more life out of it. The clutch fluid does get pretty nasty. But if you're ready for the upgrade then there's no time like the present.

cdoxp800 · 07-09-2012, 08:34 AM

From what you are describing your CSC is not going out. This seems more like a fluid issue. Replace the fluid with Motul RBF-600. This should solve issue.
Tip:
Get a vacuum on the bleeder before you open the bleeder valve. This will keep any air from getting into the system.

370Z Purist · 07-09-2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

My bad, got the impression that your clutch was already aftermarket.

I think you are a good candidate for a clutch bleed if you want to try and get more life out of it. The clutch fluid does get pretty nasty. But if you're ready for the upgrade then there's no time like the present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoxp800

From what you are describing your CSC is not going out. This seems more like a fluid issue. Replace the fluid with Motul RBF-600. This should solve issue.
Tip:
Get a vacuum on the bleeder before you open the bleeder valve. This will keep any air from getting into the system.

Indeed, it sounds like a good alternative to a + $2000 dollar replacement right now. Since FI is far into the future, the present might be a great time...

It is sitting at a Nissan dealership, so I will find myself some good fluid and carefully supervise to ensure they actually use it. Maybe they won't charge me some exorbitant price for the service.

Also, now I'm going to feel very bad about this, but the car is over three years old and has not once seen a clutch fluid flush. Hopefully, this will alleviate the problem.

Are there any alternatives to RBF600? I'm trying to source the stuff locally but the longer the car sits, the more work I miss. I have a special circumstance, so don't worry about the whole work thing.

EDIT:

By the way, I just called the dealer and asked for how much it would be to bleed and flush the clutch fluid. 145 dollars. I laughed in their face and they hung up.

I'm also having a hell of a time trying to find some brake fluid that isn't some generic Autozone or Walmart crap. I know Nissan uses Motul fluids, but only for sponsored racing. The closest place is 45 minutes away and they're actually out of stock.

kenchan · 07-09-2012, 10:33 AM

you shouldn't need a clutch fluid flush in just 3yrs, unless you track the car and overwhelm the system often. hell, nissan's maintenance 2 doesn't even recommend a clutch service flush the last time i checked.

i think your piston is shot and i would just pay the dealer or your shop to get that swapped out. yah it's going to cost some $ but oh well, better than not having your Z to play with on the weekends. gotta pay to play.

370Z Purist · 07-09-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

you shouldn't need a clutch fluid flush in just 3yrs, unless you track the car and overwhelm the system often. hell, nissan's maintenance 2 doesn't even recommend a clutch service flush the last time i checked.

i think your piston is shot and i would just pay the dealer or your shop to get that swapped out. yah it's going to cost some $ but oh well, better than not having your Z to play with on the weekends. gotta pay to play.

I'm going to try a flush only because it's so inexpensive. Might as well get it safely driven to my home instead of having it towed for even more money. Pay to play is the game. I'm just trying to see if I can skirt by with an interim payment.

kenchan · 07-09-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist

I'm going to try a flush only because it's so inexpensive. Might as well get it safely driven to my home instead of having it towed for even more money. Pay to play is the game. I'm just trying to see if I can skirt by with an interim payment.

oh ok... but i think the root cause is the piston failure... how much fluid is in your reserve?

ChrisSlicks · 07-09-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist

I'm also having a hell of a time trying to find some brake fluid that isn't some generic Autozone or Walmart crap. I know Nissan uses Motul fluids, but only for sponsored racing. The closest place is 45 minutes away and they're actually out of stock.

The best stuff you can find right now at Autozone is Vavoline Synthetic brake fluid. It is actually pretty decent and cheap, has as dry boil point of 480F and a wet of 311F. I use it in all my non-track vehicles, I'm sure it is better than what is in there now.

I would also put the clutch spring back in, either stock or the lightweight one. You can have my lightweight one if you want, just pay shipping & handling.

370Z Purist · 07-09-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The best stuff you can find right now at Autozone is Vavoline Synthetic brake fluid. It is actually pretty decent and cheap, has as dry boil point of 480F and a wet of 311F. I use it in all my non-track vehicles, I'm sure it is better than what is in there now.

I would also put the clutch spring back in, either stock or the lightweight one. You can have my lightweight one if you want, just pay shipping & handling.

I have since replaced the stock spring, which is kind of odd because the clutch pedal can't even fully actuate back to its unsprung position. I would actually like the lightweight spring, if your handling doesn't include a biochemical fuel charge for your food!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

oh ok... but i think the root cause is the piston failure... how much fluid is in your reserve?

But it does look like the piston could and likely would be causing this problem. Its most odd because the fluid reservoir shows no change in level (right below max). I would think if the CSC failed, that the fluid would drain/leak, but I'm showing no change, which also leads to me to think the CSC failed because the fluid isn't the issue.

kenchan · 07-09-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist

But it does look like the piston could and likely would be causing this problem. Its most odd because the fluid reservoir shows no change in level (right below max). I would think if the CSC failed, that the fluid would drain/leak, but I'm showing no change, which also leads to me to think the CSC failed because the fluid isn't the issue.

yep, i think it's your piston so fluid change will net you probably nothing... thus i think you should have the dealer replace the unit and bring her home.

ChrisSlicks · 07-09-2012, 12:05 PM

The pedal sticks down if there isn't sufficient hydraulic pressure to return it. Definitely sounds like air in the system. Now the reason the air is there is because of 1 of 2 things, either the fluid boiled due to fluid contamination that lowered the boiling point, or air entered the system somewhere. The later seems unlikely at this point as if that were the case then fluid could also leak out the same place.

Just bleed it, takes all of 5-10 minutes. Takes more time getting the car jacked up to get access to the bleed screw.

07-07-2012, 06:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
370Z Purist A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Zion, Illinois Posts: 1,873 Drives: '09 370Z-T BS M6 Rep Power: 19	Another CSC failure? TL;DR: I think my CSC failed. No warranty. What should I do? So, I think I have fallen victim to Nissan's poor CSC. Or at least, I think it's the CSC. I have a 2009, only 12.2K miles. Removed the clutch helper spring about 600 miles ago. I think I first noticed issues when the clutch pedal felt really mushy when cold, but would stiffen up and become more consistent with some driving. Unfortunately, I'm kind of ignorant sometimes. I wanted to drive out, and without much of a deal, turned the motor over, disengaged the parking brake, and clutched in. First gear didn't engage. By that, the clutch went all the way in, but I didn't hear the chattering clutch become silent. It wouldn't bite first gear, almost as if it were locking me out. Kicked the clutch in a few times, managed to drop it into first and into the next gears. I figured it might have been me. Well, over a 20 minute drive to my friend's house, the engagement point was literally a millimeter off the floor, and I occasionally couldn't even get the gears in. I'm surprised I even made it this far. I know a little bit about this issue, enough to say it's either the dreaded CSC issue, or it's a throwout bearing (which I think is part of the CSC). One thing's for sure, I'm having this thing towed to the nearest dealer and getting it inspected... right after I reinstall the clutch helper spring (even though it's unrelated and it's only to ensure the dealer doesn't try to pull a fast one). Those 12.2 thousand miles on the odometer weren't very harsh; spirited driving, a few launches at 3K (definitely not recently), and I don't drive retardedly. If that's a word. There's no clutch slip, as far as I can tell. Some opinions would be appreciated! EDIT: Some post-posting thread searching, I remembered I posted in a thread about a similar, if not exactly the same component failure in the Tech Area. Unfortunately, the tech area is very much a quiet area with very few posts per day. However, the OP mentioned the idea of simply going with a stronger system from the get-go while the engine/transmission is dropped; new clutch + flywheel to accompany the ZSpeed CSC. Not a bad idea? It's a good thing the Z is a weekend car; I need new tires, too, but it looks like the RE11's are gonna have to wait a bit. Some suggestions on clutch/flywheel kits would be great, too. I know a few members are running Southbend clutches to good effect; the TZR looks interesting, but I don't know if it's for me. I don't mind a bit more pedal pressure, but I know for sure I don't need unsprung six pucks (or even sprung six pucks, for that matter). I don't think I'm ready for NHRA level street driving yet. All I want is a kit that will eat 500 torques without trouble. I don't even want to know about what happens over 500 horsepower anyway. __________________ -Phil "Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow." Last edited by 370Z Purist; 07-09-2012 at 07:30 AM. Reason: STUFF

07-09-2012, 08:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Nissan recommends that the CSC be replaced when the clutch is replaced, even with stock parts. They say it is something to do with contamination, but I think it is really just because the part is crappy. So much for "progress". First thing, check the clutch fluid level. Consider bleeding the clutch line if there is no sign of fluid loss. There is a chance that it is covered under the drivetrain warranty, but with an aftermarket clutch they might fight you on that one since the CSC directly engages the clutch pressure plate and any sizing error can cause problems. Did this clutch require a CSC adapter ring for proper engagement? If it does need replacement I think the Z-speed is your best choice. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

07-09-2012, 08:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	My bad, got the impression that your clutch was already aftermarket. I think you are a good candidate for a clutch bleed if you want to try and get more life out of it. The clutch fluid does get pretty nasty. But if you're ready for the upgrade then there's no time like the present. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

07-09-2012, 08:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
cdoxp800 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: FL Posts: 1,337 Drives: 2011 Nismo Rep Power: 19	From what you are describing your CSC is not going out. This seems more like a fluid issue. Replace the fluid with Motul RBF-600. This should solve issue. Tip: Get a vacuum on the bleeder before you open the bleeder valve. This will keep any air from getting into the system. __________________ 2011 Brilliant Silver NISMO 370z. #: 0046. PPE LTH \| MillSpec Cats \| F.I Exhaust \| Akuma Intakes \| Rotora 6/4 Brakes

07-09-2012, 12:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	The pedal sticks down if there isn't sufficient hydraulic pressure to return it. Definitely sounds like air in the system. Now the reason the air is there is because of 1 of 2 things, either the fluid boiled due to fluid contamination that lowered the boiling point, or air entered the system somewhere. The later seems unlikely at this point as if that were the case then fluid could also leak out the same place. Just bleed it, takes all of 5-10 minutes. Takes more time getting the car jacked up to get access to the bleed screw. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

07-09-2012, 07:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
OKC Z Base Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: OKC Posts: 205 Drives: '09 370z-$old 9/1/12 Rep Power: 14	Dont buy the south bend. I have stage 2 kevlar/ flywheel kit and csc and hate the I got it installed.

07-09-2012, 10:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	you shouldn't need a clutch fluid flush in just 3yrs, unless you track the car and overwhelm the system often. hell, nissan's maintenance 2 doesn't even recommend a clutch service flush the last time i checked. i think your piston is shot and i would just pay the dealer or your shop to get that swapped out. yah it's going to cost some $ but oh well, better than not having your Z to play with on the weekends. gotta pay to play.

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