Another CSC failure?

kenchan

keep us posted how things go.

370Z Purist

I will. I called Project X, who does a lot of Z work in the Chicagoland area. They quoted me 400 for install, which already beats the dealership costs. I will change the fluid, and see how it does. At the least, I expect my pedal to come back up.

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-Phil

"Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow."

370Z Purist

Tried to bleed the clutch, but it just stopped working. No fluid came out at all. Now the pedal is basically mush. It comes back, just that it's very very soft. I followed spearfish's directions, post 3, here: REQUEST: DIY Clutch Fluid bleed/swap/replacement.

It worked the first few times and did drop some fluid, but after the fifth cycle, the fluid level didn't change and no more fluid was coming out the bleed valve. Pedal still returns, but the action is extremely easy and takes less than a pound of force to actuate. Not only am I more convinced that it's now some other issue, but the car is completely undriveable as to being barely driveable.

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-Phil

"Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow."

ChrisSlicks

You have to be very careful to not open the valve too much and only on the downstroke or you will let more air in. The timing is a little tricky but you should be able to do it.

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Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

cheshirecat

I agree on the clutch fluid flush first. As far as bleeding it, it can be a complete pain in the ***.

Close the bleeder valve and pump away. You may have to do it 50 times or more. Make sure you keep the clutch fluid container topped off. Open bleeder valve. Repeat.

It took me about half an hour to get the fluid through the system.

But yeah, if this doesn't work, it'll be time to check out the CSC.

CBRich

Subscribing because my car just started doing the same thing. Is there a possibility that the extreme temperatures lately could have created or amplified an issue? I know mine began after a 6 hour road trip in 105 degree weather.

OKC Z

I think you might have something there. My pedal gets really sticky coming back on 90° + weather.

cheshirecat

Yes. The hotter the ambient temperature, the higher the chances of your clutch fluid temperature going over it's rated temp and losing its hydraulic properties. You'll find that these clutch issues tend to manifest during the hotter months if it's related to the clutch fluid itself. It happens every year for both the 350 and 370.

Once clutch fluid gets too hot, it will boil, which creates air in the line. The air compresses, which causes the hydraulics to fail.

All my car needed was one hard run during the summer to cook the stock clutch fluid. I remember exactly when it happened. Once that was done, the pedal was never the same.

Once I bled it out with some RBF600 and changed out the rubber clutch hose with the stainless one from Z1, it was perfect. Pain in the *** to bleed out all the air, but definitely worth it.

Please note that this will make no difference if your CSC is failing.

370Z Purist

That sounds like a bad install. The grinding noise could be just typical Z chatter, since our Z is such a noisy vehicle. The fact that you can't get into gears sounds like either an issue with actuation, either the master or slave, or possibly trans damage (the least likely, and also the worst scenario). Since you mention it being worse at high RPMs, maybe it could be something to do with the synchros. I'm not an expert, no, but I can't say the problem sits only with the clutch. It sounds like a whole other bucket of worms to me.

The stock brake fluid hasn't been changed and is clear, slightly yellow. The clutch fluid is rather nasty in comparison, and the fluid clearly has some dark particulate swirling around in it. Assuming the same fluid is used, the clutch fluid sure doesn't stay clean much at all, and I'm only at 12.5K miles.

Unfortunately, I could pump the clutch all day and see no difference. I've sat in the car for 20 minutes, doing 2 second down/up cycles with the clutch, and it doesn't stiffen up at all. Bleed valve is closed, fluid topped off (to the max line). I don't understand.

Before attempting to flush, the clutch worked intermittently. Now it doesn't work at all!

Power bleeding is probably the best way to confirm that fluid isn't my issue. Because I have royally screwed up the bleed. Pedal is complete mush, and I basically just hear the fluid swirling around.

I did find this, though, from more research, and I wanted to see if anyone has tried this, or would recommend trying it. As a general idea it makes a lot of sense, and it helps push out any air in the system, which naturally just looks like it would trap air (and apparently has). I will try this before getting a power bleeder, then before a swap. Still no clear sign of failure, due to the lack of leaking fluid.

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-Phil

"Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow."

370Z Purist

About six hours ago I went down to my friends' where the Z currently is, and wanted to use the above technique. However, with no one around and the Z just sitting outside, I checked up on it and stepped on the pedal. Pressure! I noticed the reservoir level dropped a bit too. I got a turkey baster and siphoned out the old fluid in the reservoir (pretty nasty stuff) and added fresh fluid, then proceeded to slowly pump. I took it out for a ten minute drive and the engagement was a bit sloppy but still OK. I park it, then take a quick break. I tried to drive it again to absolutely no avail, and it seems the pedal got a bit softer again (although still kinda stiff).

I didn't do anything to it yet, so I'll finally get some daylight, properly flush the entire system, then deliver a verdict.

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-Phil

"Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow."

ChrisSlicks

Good luck!

__________________
Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

370Z Purist

I finally got around to using the piston oiler/reverse bleed technique. Worked like a charm. Completely restored pressure in the system, and after a few pumps of the pedal, the entire pedal stiffened up. It held up to MORE than a single drive this time! Hopefully it stays this way. It does seem like I managed to boil the fluid. While this does mean I don't have to do the CSC replacement, it does rather make me comfortable with the thought of replacing it with the HD component anyway. I also want to slap on a lightweight flywheel, but I don't really see the point if I don't do the clutch with it all at once.

Funny thing though, if you're using a screw top piston oiler, wrap teflon tape around the threads. Brake fluid, being a hydraulic fluid and not a lubricant, actually will seize the threads. Ended up breaking my piston oiler before I "finished" purging the system, but it seems I had already flushed the system well enough for a firm pedal feel.

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-Phil

"Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow."

ChrisSlicks

That's great news!

Once air is trapped in there in can be difficult to get out, but it seems like the reverse bleed did the trick.

__________________
Hotchkis ARB | Stillen CAI | Art Pipes | Berk CBE | Stillen AP Racing Brakes | AE Performance Oil Cooler | BC Racing ER Coilovers | Doran Control Arms

370Z Purist

Well, I've driven around some more, and I'm not exactly sure all the things I'm experienced are to be considered normal.

In a 20 minute drive, I experienced minor clutch slip under near WOT. It went away after about five minutes, although it doesn't quite feel exactly the same. Of course, just the fact I thought I felt slip probably predisposes me to think everything is wrong.

The clutch engagement has changed remarkably. Unlike before the issue came up, the entire pedal has pressure (minus the first half inch; still no clutch helper spring). Before, it was kinda floppy for the first inch or two. I guess it's to be expected if there was air in the lines. However, it engaged along the rest of the pedal travel. Now, the engagement is only in the first inch or two after the half inch of play. Everything afterwards is just as stiff, but does pretty much nothing. I can easily disengage gears without even pressing the clutch halfway down. It reminds me of the first few months of owning the Z, except I still had the stock helper spring.

So, I guess what I'm asking is, assuming the flush was either completely or mostly successful in removing air, what can explain the symptoms?

I am also more curious about running ZSpeed's CSC and the Southbend steel flywheel. Any issues in that set up with the OEM pressure plate and clutch disc? I can still confidently say I am going to have the HD CSC installed.

__________________
-Phil

"Since one of my brake light bulbs just went out, the forum told me that my piston rings are about to blow."

skillcraft72

Folks, It has finally happened to me and after an exhaustive session with Nissan local dealer and Nissan USA, the result is me putting in the Z1 Motorsports option.
While that is going on, I have currently contacted a lawyer to look into starting a Class Action against Nissan for manufacturing, installing, and allowing this part to fail more often than not and knowing it. As one here has said "The dealership carries extra on hand because of this problem"...not completely verbatim but you all get the point.
What I want is everyone to pm me their story and I will include it in my hopeful interview with a local channel...maybe get some traction on this. Although many of us here can drive manual cars and if a failure occurs, we know how to get ourselves out of harms way, there are still many who do not if they loose clutch pressure, like my lovely wife. So yes, this is a safety issue.
I also encourage all of you who have dealt with this to also contact your states Attorney General and the CFPB (Consumer Finance Protection Bureau).
We can do this folks. We need to be reimbursed and then some for a known fault in the vehicle we love to drive, at least I do!