Era of the Muscle Car is over

JB1 · 06-17-2009, 11:20 PM

OK, excuse me for getting back tot topic: "Era of the Muscle Car is over?". I don't think it is. The only difference will be: forced induction over "cubic inches". We already see it with the 370Z, 330hp from a high revving 3.7L compared to Fords 210 HP from a 4.0L?. Next step will be forced induction... Look at what is going on in Europe. VW for example, a 1.4 with turbo replaces a 1.8 N/A. (both 125 hp). Next generation BMW M3 will be turbocharged... Or look at Ford Eco boost, twin turbo V6 instead of a V8. So the muscle car will live on, just with less capacity :-)

edeeZee · 06-18-2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazilbro

you would?? the batteries and motors would push it to the 4000lb mark , not to mention the weight balance.. what fun would that be? it would just be a sexy looking car with no performance.. if you want a 2 seater hybrid pick up a used insight... probably have better MPG and performace.

about 300lbs. more and supposedly 100hp more--> 432hp at ~3600 lbs.
Nissan to Launch Hybrid 370Z sports car in 2011! > 370z.com > 370z.com - Magazine

FricFrac · 06-18-2009, 02:38 AM

Wow - if this does go to production and it turns out the numbers Nissan is claiming this will be a Historical marker in automotove history. It will just like when Nissan brought Japanese sports cars (and really the whole Japanese auto market) to the lime light in North America (and the rest of the world) with the 1970 240Z...

dad · 06-18-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKindaGuy

The one thing I learned in the 55 years I have lived...in regards to anything that is being poo-pooed by the majority population, the media or the government....if you lie down to those pundits then the tide will certainly swing in that direction and what you once enjoyed will end for you. However if people would just stop being so damn apathetic and fight back then there is a good chance the era won't come to an end.

The problem is that the minority who enjoy the "era" things think they if they make their own individual voice heard and cry out loudly against the majority then they will be dooming themselves to being targeted for redicule and even attack by the majority.

Well so what???!! It has been this way since the beginning of time. But history has proven the loudest and strongest are not necessilary the majority. So quit putting your head between your legs and start getting involved in those efforts that exist to counter the pundits. And if no efforts exist then start one of your own grassroots style.

Lets face it..do you actualy think that this country came about as a result of our forefathers outnumbering the Brits?

cstr_Cali · 06-19-2009, 06:15 PM

Didn't read through all the posts in this thread so forgive me if I say anything that's already been said.

If the end of the muscle car era means no more dated, overweight, poorly engineered and designed RWD "pony" cars then that is fine by me. In my eyes the current muscle car crop defines what's wrong with the domestic auto industry: wrong product at the wrong time dated in the past. Take the new Camaro for instance...it's HUGE compared to the Z and weighs what I imagine to be several hundred more pounds. At the least the Z appears to have been designed with the foresight of changing environmental conditions that produce concerns for what and how we drive, and to boot changing consumer tastes influenced by this awareness. Granted the Z does not have miserly fuel economy you'll fare better than in a Camaro SS, albeit not by much. Even something as superfical as physical presence is enough to convince the average consumer in a time where fuel economy is of great concern whether or not to buy one car over the other, because lets face it "downsizing" is the new trend in the automotive market.

Muscle cars don't have to die they just have to change. New sources and ways of developing and harnessing power must be realized and utilized if these cars are not only to survive but become more efficent, which is the guiding principle for the entire auto industy moving forward. This means smaller engines, lighter build materials and other innovative technologies geared towards increasing efficency. And while the electric car is a great idea it's got a long ways before it becomes truly viable. There are still issues of cost and even efficency before the electic car can truly become some sort of panacea for the global auto industry. Fear not the combustion engine is here to stay.

ZKindaGuy · 06-20-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstr_Cali

If the end of the muscle car era means no more dated, overweight, poorly engineered and designed RWD "pony" cars then that is fine by me. In my eyes the current muscle car crop defines what's wrong with the domestic auto industry... .

Overweight....agree.

Dated....Disagree. The muscle cars are not dated. They are a second muscle-car generation and possess contemporary design and styling. And they are exacly what saved Ford and doomed GM and Dodge only because they did not jump in on the 2nd-gen MC era quick enough.

Poorley engineered....Disagree. A person is more likely to walk away from a race crash alive in one of those "poorly engineered" cars than in the new epxerimentally "green" crackerboxes that are on the market today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstr_Cali

Muscle cars don't have to die they just have to change....Agree

lovethe370z · 03-09-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluzman

Off topic but...I get a major dose of nostalgia when I think of what "was" vs. what "is" regarding muscle cars. I had the great good fortune to be able to drive a new dark blue, white convertible topped, Hurst floor shift equipped, 389 CID GTO (the first muscle car, some may argue) for an extended period. It belonged to a buddy who was a midshipman at the Naval Academy who left it with my roommates and me in Annapolis while he was on cruise before graduation. It was 1965, I was 21, unencumbered and invincible, and god how I loved to take that car on the back roads in southern Maryland and let it all hang out. The experience hooked me forever. Recently I happened to see several GTOs of that vintage being sold for staggering amounts at a Mecum auction. It was no surprise that the buyers looked like guys from my generation. Ok, back on topic.

Haha, I live on those roads. I love driving them.

Zsteve · 03-09-2010, 03:36 PM

The green cars are a fad for the most part (wait till they are hit in one), the new muscle car is now the sports muscle car that will be 4 and 6 cyl turbos for the most part that get good hp and good mpg. Just look at how many turbo charged 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars there are now compared to about 5 yrs ago. IMO you get the best of both sides except maybe the size of the car.

gumpy · 03-09-2010, 04:56 PM

I fear that the petrol rwd manual cars are going to become harder and harder to come across. Esp ones with smooth v6's and v8's... Don't sell the 370z, the next iteration may well be hybrid only... =( I hope it isn't but you just don't know... esp if the petrol prices mega spike in the next economic boom... expected in 2012-2014 period.

Also it would be prudent for people of this forum who plan to never sell the z to get some oil stocks of some sort to hedge the expected movement in energy commodities.

kenchan · 03-09-2010, 05:48 PM

yep, i too think (or fear) that this might be my last gasoline-only powered RWD and MT hobby car...

GingaBreadMan · 03-09-2010, 06:09 PM

I wasn't ever a fan of muscle cars. I like power but those big bloated porkers are a Timex watch in a digital age. They are only good in a straight line and are like crap going down the toilet in the twistses. May they Rest In Peace.

OldGuy · 03-09-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluzman

Off topic but...I get a major dose of nostalgia when I think of what "was" vs. what "is" regarding muscle cars. I had the great good fortune to be able to drive a new dark blue, white convertible topped, Hurst floor shift equipped, 389 CID GTO (the first muscle car, some may argue) for an extended period. It belonged to a buddy who was a midshipman at the Naval Academy who left it with my roommates and me in Annapolis while he was on cruise before graduation. It was 1965, I was 21, unencumbered and invincible, and god how I loved to take that car on the back roads in southern Maryland and let it all hang out. The experience hooked me forever. Recently I happened to see several GTOs of that vintage being sold for staggering amounts at a Mecum auction. It was no surprise that the buyers looked like guys from my generation. Ok, back on topic.

Good days inhabited by a good generation of cars and guys and girls. I know---I was 18 in 1965.

OldGuy · 03-09-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakoye

I don't care. Really, I don't. I want gas to be cheap. I want 300+ horses under my hood. I want to hear the roar of a gasoline-powered engine, not the hum of a glorified golf cart.

And, I want that Z I'm gonna buy to stay in the low 30K range. I don't want it to be a 40/50K sports car. This is what's gonna happen if we start instituting carbon taxes.

I say "no".

I say no, too.

dad · 03-09-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GingaBreadMan

I wasn't ever a fan of muscle cars. I like power but those big bloated porkers are a Timex watch in a digital age. They are only good in a straight line and are like crap going down the toilet in the twistses. May they Rest In Peace.

What goes around comes around! The Z will be in the same category in the future!

OldGuy · 03-09-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKindaGuy

The one thing I learned in the 55 years I have lived...in regards to anything that is being poo-pooed by the majority population, the media or the government....if you lie down to those pundits then the tide will certainly swing in that direction and what you once enjoyed will end for you. However if people would just stop being so damn apathetic and fight back then there is a good chance the era won't come to an end.

The problem is that the minority who enjoy the "era" things think they if they make their own individual voice heard and cry out loudly against the majority then they will be dooming themselves to being targeted for redicule and even attack by the majority.

Well so what???!! It has been this way since the beginning of time. But history has proven the loudest and strongest are not necessilary the majority. So quit putting your head between your legs and start getting involved in those efforts that exist to counter the pundits. And if no efforts exist then start one of your own grassroots style.

Lets face it..do you actualy think that this country came about as a result of our forefathers outnumbering the Brits?

Come with me and have some "Tea," if you get my drift!

06-19-2009, 06:15 PM	#80 (permalink)
cstr_Cali Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 347 Drives: smoke grey Rep Power: 573	Didn't read through all the posts in this thread so forgive me if I say anything that's already been said. If the end of the muscle car era means no more dated, overweight, poorly engineered and designed RWD "pony" cars then that is fine by me. In my eyes the current muscle car crop defines what's wrong with the domestic auto industry: wrong product at the wrong time dated in the past. Take the new Camaro for instance...it's HUGE compared to the Z and weighs what I imagine to be several hundred more pounds. At the least the Z appears to have been designed with the foresight of changing environmental conditions that produce concerns for what and how we drive, and to boot changing consumer tastes influenced by this awareness. Granted the Z does not have miserly fuel economy you'll fare better than in a Camaro SS, albeit not by much. Even something as superfical as physical presence is enough to convince the average consumer in a time where fuel economy is of great concern whether or not to buy one car over the other, because lets face it "downsizing" is the new trend in the automotive market. Muscle cars don't have to die they just have to change. New sources and ways of developing and harnessing power must be realized and utilized if these cars are not only to survive but become more efficent, which is the guiding principle for the entire auto industy moving forward. This means smaller engines, lighter build materials and other innovative technologies geared towards increasing efficency. And while the electric car is a great idea it's got a long ways before it becomes truly viable. There are still issues of cost and even efficency before the electic car can truly become some sort of panacea for the global auto industry. Fear not the combustion engine is here to stay. __________________ Waiting to see if she fits. Fingers crossed.

03-09-2010, 03:36 PM	#83 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	The green cars are a fad for the most part (wait till they are hit in one), the new muscle car is now the sports muscle car that will be 4 and 6 cyl turbos for the most part that get good hp and good mpg. Just look at how many turbo charged 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars there are now compared to about 5 yrs ago. IMO you get the best of both sides except maybe the size of the car. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

03-09-2010, 06:09 PM	#86 (permalink)
GingaBreadMan Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York Posts: 313 Drives: 09 370z Sport 6spd Rep Power: 16	I wasn't ever a fan of muscle cars. I like power but those big bloated porkers are a Timex watch in a digital age. They are only good in a straight line and are like crap going down the toilet in the twistses. May they Rest In Peace. __________________ ClearBra/Debadging/Tinted Head & Taillights Coming Soon:180° Customs Headlights/ISS Forged Spyder 19" 265*305/Swift Springs/STS Rear Mount Turbo

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JB1 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 748 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z sold Rep Power: 17	OK, excuse me for getting back tot topic: "Era of the Muscle Car is over?". I don't think it is. The only difference will be: forced induction over "cubic inches". We already see it with the 370Z, 330hp from a high revving 3.7L compared to Fords 210 HP from a 4.0L?. Next step will be forced induction... Look at what is going on in Europe. VW for example, a 1.4 with turbo replaces a 1.8 N/A. (both 125 hp). Next generation BMW M3 will be turbocharged... Or look at Ford Eco boost, twin turbo V6 instead of a V8. So the muscle car will live on, just with less capacity :-)

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