Nissan Consumer Affairs Oil Cooler Response

Cypress · 06-05-2009, 11:17 PM

Is anyone here an attorney? I am not, but I have experience with the legal aspects of warranty and class action suits.

Some food for thought:

1. Some folks are quoting a Wikipedia reference. Just consider that this reference could be directed toward parts that support original form, fit, function or specification and not apply to add-on modifications.

2. Adding an oil cooler will alter the original form, fit, function or specification of the original product. I would submit that Nissan could deny warranty claims on the grounds of "customer induced damage" due to altering the original product design and specification (notwithstanding that everyone "thinks" that adding an oil cooler is "better" for the car). If adding an oil cooler is better for the car, why are you having a warranty event? Your car should not be broken.

3. What exactly would be the grounds for the suit? That Nissan would not honor a warranty service event? Some of you went down the path that either Nissan needs to prove or the class needs to prove one way or another that adding the oil cooler did or did not induce the failure. As the basis for the suite has a failure yet occurred or are you wanting to sue to have the right to warranty service after you modified their original design should you need such warranty service?

I suggest that Nissan could simply say, the user altered the design and subsequently voided the warranty (regardless of proof that the oil cooler damaged the car or not).

Guys, I'm a 370Z owner, so I am on your side. I am just suggesting that if you go down the path of a class action that you make it real clear what you want to sue for and think through if that request even makes sense.

IMHO, if you were to pursue this path, you should sue for the right to warranty service if you installed an oil cooler. Now you have to be fair to Nissan. It would have to be some oil cooler part and installation that they can certify was done correctly (i.e their dealer and their installation). You just can't have your local mechanic or you slap in some home made parts and call it an oil cooler and demand that the vehicle should stil be under warranty. Also, think through the chronology. You can not sue for something that has not happened yet. i.e. If no one was denies warranty service after installing an oil cooler, then the suit has no merit. Meaning, you have not yet been damaged. You would first have to install the oil cooler, then try to get warranty service and then be denied for the service. At this point, you have a case that you were damaged.

If you are suing to get a free oil cooler because the car was sold to "Enthusiasts" and it gets hot, I don't think that will have merit. Again, in this case, how have you been damaged given the published specifications of the product you bought.

So think about what you want to sue for and make sure it has merit. Typically, the party will need to prove that damage was done.

Anyway, like I said in the beginning, I am NOT an attorney. I am one of you guys so no flames please. I am just trying to help sort out the various thoughts.

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 03:05 PM

I've been lucky and haven't had any issues yet, haven't got over 225 but I don't track or race the car.
However, if I do, I'll fix it since they won't help. The question is will I let nissan know about it. Unless I have a serious warranty issue they will never see my car again and at that point I'll take the time to remove the questionable part before taking it in.

bluzman · 06-05-2009, 03:33 PM

JMO...but removing aftermarket components from a vehicle before taking it into a dealer for possible warranty work because you're worried that the aftermarket component might be perceived (or perhaps really is) the cause of the problem comes a lot closer to fraud and fraudulent business practices than anything Nissan has done so far. Also seems like a waste of energy to be talking about law suits when AFAIK from reading this forum, nobody has incurred any damage. In fact, IIRC, I haven't read of anyone here actually even going into limp mode except possibly while tracking. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree with the guys who I think suggested that generating adverse publicity is a better way to go. Like I said, JMO.

FuszNissan · 06-05-2009, 03:37 PM

I drive 15-20 miles at 80-85 mph in 5 gear every day to and from work, never been above 225

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 03:41 PM

bluzman, it would only be fraud if the part really did cause the problem, in that case someone should just face the music for installing the part. I would take full responsibility if what I did broke something. Otherwise if its their defect they should fix it.

I do agree thought that we're just wasting our time complaining until something actually happens, but I don't have anything better to do right now I stuck at a desk until 5:00.

NotmyGTR · 06-05-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butters167

I do agree thought that we're just wasting our time complaining until something actually happens, but I don't have anything better to do right now I stuck at a desk until 5:00.

Only an hour and 15 min to go bro. Hang in there. Since I like to look out for people........I will have a beer for you right now.

dszombiex · 06-05-2009, 04:02 PM

Mine has gone to 240F just from sittin in heavy traffic on a day where the ambient temps have been over 90F.

I agree with frost in that its insulting that not only does the car have a problem, but they wont let us fix it.

I'm all for signing petitions to send out. I think having signed petitions sent to high profile car review websites/magazines is a good idea.

antennahead · 06-05-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dszombiex

Mine has gone to 240F just from sittin in heavy traffic on a day where the ambient temps have been over 90F.

I agree with frost in that its insulting that not only does the car have a problem, but they wont let us fix it.

I'm all for signing petitions to send out. I think having signed petitions sent to high profile car review websites/magazines is a good idea.

I have hit 260 from 10 minutes of spirited driving followed by heavy rush hour traffic in 90F heat.

John

bluzman · 06-05-2009, 04:22 PM

Totally off topic but had me ROTFLMAO.

The Pelosi Sports Car - Funny Business with Jane Wells - CNBC.com

Modshack · 06-05-2009, 04:39 PM

I can see this thread going on for another 50 pages with various degrees of indignation, threat and persecution being expressed.

In reality, 99% of you will never have a problem from high oil temps (real or perceived).

Nissan is not going to do anything about it as they've decided high temps are OK.

Nissan has no obligation to pay for any warranty work that may occur from the failure or interaction of a part YOU put on the car.

Quit whining and enjoy your cars

Spend <$300 and install a cooler if it's an issue for you. How to here:
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ttsa-pics.html

ChrisSlicks · 06-05-2009, 04:44 PM

If my oil cooler blows a line and kills my engine because I installed wrong or whatever I'm cool with that. What I don't want happening is Nissan voiding the entire warranty because "obviously I'm tracking the car if I needed an oil cooler". I also don't want to have the hassle of swapping it in and out every time I need to go in for a major service.

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

What I don't want happening is Nissan voiding the entire warranty because "obviously I'm tracking the car if I needed an oil cooler".

Legally they can't, they may try but it is up to the owner to fight back. If it is not related to the problem they can't use it against you. And one part will cannot void the whole warranty. An oil cooler or any part is not going to void the entire warranty even if it goes bad. At most only the area covered. Oil is not going to affect the warranty on say your shocks.

280z/300zx · 06-05-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butters167

Legally they can't, they may try but it is up to the owner to fight back. If it is not related to the problem they can't use it against you. And one part will cannot void the whole warranty. An oil cooler or any part is not going to void the entire warranty even if it goes bad. At most only the area covered. Oil is not going to affect the warranty on say your shocks.

Tell that to the Subaru guys. Subaru will deny your warranty based on the fact that it's a performance car so obviously it was driver abuse. A lot of people here keep saying it's illegal but what you are failing to see is that they can deny it if they want to. It's up to you at that point to pay out of your pocket to fight it in court. So many WRX owners have taken their car in for busted trannys only for them to be denied repair even though they couldn't prove that it was a direct result of abusive driving. Simply put they stated that the tranny wouldn't have busted if driven properly. Nevermind the fact that the gears in the car are too weak for the amount of power the car is putting out stock. This is a similar situation with the Z. Nissan can easily say that under normal driving conditions the temps should be fine and anything causing abnormal temps is abusive driving and simply deny the warranty. Sure it's bad buisness and possibly even illegal but at the same time you have to pay out of pocket initially try to prove your case. Nissan has us by the balls on this one if they choose to.

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Quit whining and enjoy your cars

Yeah I don't know why I'm whining I don't even have any temp. problems. Its just the principle of it and I don't have anything better to do while I'm stuck at a desk on Fridays.

I do enjoy my car and I would still buy it even with the issues. If I do have any issues with temp. I plan on using you plans, Thanks for the DIY.

VCuomo · 06-05-2009, 04:44 PM

For you guys with temp problems but are not tracking or hard-driving the car, I can't help but think that there's something else going on here (like a defective oil pump). I've never had my Z's oil temp go above 220 - and that was in stop and go driving, followed by pushing the car up to over 80mph on the interstate (and after 15 minutes or so of 80+mph, the temp dropped down to around 205).

I see two issues in this whole thing:

1) There really does seem to be an oil temp issue in *some* 370Z's - Nissan should be trying earnestly to figure this out; and

2) There's no reason to void warranties just because someone installs one, nor can Nissan legally (and, it appears here, arbitrarily) declare that they will not honor warranties on vehicles with an oil cooler installed - the burden is on Nissan to prove that the oil cooler caused a problem that the owner is trying to have repaired under warranty.

06-05-2009, 03:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
bluzman Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 349 Drives: Red Touring 7AT Rep Power: 17	JMO...but removing aftermarket components from a vehicle before taking it into a dealer for possible warranty work because you're worried that the aftermarket component might be perceived (or perhaps really is) the cause of the problem comes a lot closer to fraud and fraudulent business practices than anything Nissan has done so far. Also seems like a waste of energy to be talking about law suits when AFAIK from reading this forum, nobody has incurred any damage. In fact, IIRC, I haven't read of anyone here actually even going into limp mode except possibly while tracking. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree with the guys who I think suggested that generating adverse publicity is a better way to go. Like I said, JMO. __________________ My Gallery

06-05-2009, 03:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 543	I drive 15-20 miles at 80-85 mph in 5 gear every day to and from work, never been above 225 __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012 Last edited by FuszNissan; 06-05-2009 at 03:37 PM. Reason: spelling

06-05-2009, 04:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
bluzman Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 349 Drives: Red Touring 7AT Rep Power: 17	Totally off topic but had me ROTFLMAO. The Pelosi Sports Car - Funny Business with Jane Wells - CNBC.com __________________ My Gallery

06-05-2009, 04:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
Modshack A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Greenville NC Posts: 2,883 Drives: 370Z Sport Rep Power: 977	I can see this thread going on for another 50 pages with various degrees of indignation, threat and persecution being expressed. In reality, 99% of you will never have a problem from high oil temps (real or perceived). Nissan is not going to do anything about it as they've decided high temps are OK. Nissan has no obligation to pay for any warranty work that may occur from the failure or interaction of a part YOU put on the car. Quit whining and enjoy your cars Spend <$300 and install a cooler if it's an issue for you. How to here: http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ttsa-pics.html __________________ Steal my car! (SOLD)...Now Porsche Cayman S Oil Cooler DIY: Here!

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06-05-2009, 11:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cypress Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 49 Drives: 370Z Touring Sport Rep Power: 17	Is anyone here an attorney? I am not, but I have experience with the legal aspects of warranty and class action suits. Some food for thought: 1. Some folks are quoting a Wikipedia reference. Just consider that this reference could be directed toward parts that support original form, fit, function or specification and not apply to add-on modifications. 2. Adding an oil cooler will alter the original form, fit, function or specification of the original product. I would submit that Nissan could deny warranty claims on the grounds of "customer induced damage" due to altering the original product design and specification (notwithstanding that everyone "thinks" that adding an oil cooler is "better" for the car). If adding an oil cooler is better for the car, why are you having a warranty event? Your car should not be broken. 3. What exactly would be the grounds for the suit? That Nissan would not honor a warranty service event? Some of you went down the path that either Nissan needs to prove or the class needs to prove one way or another that adding the oil cooler did or did not induce the failure. As the basis for the suite has a failure yet occurred or are you wanting to sue to have the right to warranty service after you modified their original design should you need such warranty service? I suggest that Nissan could simply say, the user altered the design and subsequently voided the warranty (regardless of proof that the oil cooler damaged the car or not). Guys, I'm a 370Z owner, so I am on your side. I am just suggesting that if you go down the path of a class action that you make it real clear what you want to sue for and think through if that request even makes sense. IMHO, if you were to pursue this path, you should sue for the right to warranty service if you installed an oil cooler. Now you have to be fair to Nissan. It would have to be some oil cooler part and installation that they can certify was done correctly (i.e their dealer and their installation). You just can't have your local mechanic or you slap in some home made parts and call it an oil cooler and demand that the vehicle should stil be under warranty. Also, think through the chronology. You can not sue for something that has not happened yet. i.e. If no one was denies warranty service after installing an oil cooler, then the suit has no merit. Meaning, you have not yet been damaged. You would first have to install the oil cooler, then try to get warranty service and then be denied for the service. At this point, you have a case that you were damaged. If you are suing to get a free oil cooler because the car was sold to "Enthusiasts" and it gets hot, I don't think that will have merit. Again, in this case, how have you been damaged given the published specifications of the product you bought. So think about what you want to sue for and make sure it has merit. Typically, the party will need to prove that damage was done. Anyway, like I said in the beginning, I am NOT an attorney. I am one of you guys so no flames please. I am just trying to help sort out the various thoughts.

06-05-2009, 03:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
butters167 Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 59 Drives: 6sp 370Z sport pkg Rep Power: 17	I've been lucky and haven't had any issues yet, haven't got over 225 but I don't track or race the car. However, if I do, I'll fix it since they won't help. The question is will I let nissan know about it. Unless I have a serious warranty issue they will never see my car again and at that point I'll take the time to remove the questionable part before taking it in.

06-05-2009, 03:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
butters167 Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 59 Drives: 6sp 370Z sport pkg Rep Power: 17	bluzman, it would only be fraud if the part really did cause the problem, in that case someone should just face the music for installing the part. I would take full responsibility if what I did broke something. Otherwise if its their defect they should fix it. I do agree thought that we're just wasting our time complaining until something actually happens, but I don't have anything better to do right now I stuck at a desk until 5:00.

06-05-2009, 04:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
dszombiex Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 230 Drives: 09 370z MB 7AT Rep Power: 375	Mine has gone to 240F just from sittin in heavy traffic on a day where the ambient temps have been over 90F. I agree with frost in that its insulting that not only does the car have a problem, but they wont let us fix it. I'm all for signing petitions to send out. I think having signed petitions sent to high profile car review websites/magazines is a good idea.

06-05-2009, 04:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 654	If my oil cooler blows a line and kills my engine because I installed wrong or whatever I'm cool with that. What I don't want happening is Nissan voiding the entire warranty because "obviously I'm tracking the car if I needed an oil cooler". I also don't want to have the hassle of swapping it in and out every time I need to go in for a major service.

06-05-2009, 04:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
VCuomo Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 887 Drives: BMW 335i Sport Rep Power: 18	For you guys with temp problems but are not tracking or hard-driving the car, I can't help but think that there's something else going on here (like a defective oil pump). I've never had my Z's oil temp go above 220 - and that was in stop and go driving, followed by pushing the car up to over 80mph on the interstate (and after 15 minutes or so of 80+mph, the temp dropped down to around 205). I see two issues in this whole thing: 1) There really does seem to be an oil temp issue in some 370Z's - Nissan should be trying earnestly to figure this out; and 2) There's no reason to void warranties just because someone installs one, nor can Nissan legally (and, it appears here, arbitrarily) declare that they will not honor warranties on vehicles with an oil cooler installed - the burden is on Nissan to prove that the oil cooler caused a problem that the owner is trying to have repaired under warranty.