Nissan Consumer Affairs Oil Cooler Response

CBRich · 06-05-2009, 12:12 PM

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. -15 USC 2302(c)

From Wikipedia. Basically your warranty can NOT be voided by using an oil cooler UNLESS the dealer shows that your part caused failure.

Wally · 06-05-2009, 12:48 PM

I completely understand

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. -15 USC 2302(c)

From Wikipedia. Basically your warranty can NOT be voided by using an oil cooler UNLESS the dealer shows that your part caused failure.

My concern is can Nissan come back and say that though the part did not fail but it did not meet meet their specifications and requirements therefore causing a possible claim to be denied. I am not for sure and maybe someone can enlighten me has Nissan stated the requirement and specifications for on oil cooler for the vehicle. This is the gray area I am not looking at the oil cooler as an accessory i.e. wheels, stereo, suspension etc. but as an integral mechanical part that effects the most valuable part of out vehicle.

chubbs · 06-05-2009, 12:51 PM

This Mr. "Paul Lehman" character sounds like an unhelpful person who is best avoided. It seems to me that he (and whoever he spoke to) may not know what he's talking about - and they may just be trying to shut you up. Sounds like it's not working though!

Before you rush to the courts, are there no other people you can talk to locally, or even nationally? - people who may be more sympathetic and more helpful and more informed? ...because this Mr. "Paul Lehman" is making all the wrong noises.

Just never take 'no' for an answer.

spearfish25 · 06-05-2009, 01:04 PM

The problem with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that you may still have a long, drawn-out battle to finally get things to work in your favor. Nissan can deny your warranty claim on any grounds they choose, and then you're stuck fighting the denial in court. I've heard from my dealer that they've submitted warranty claims to Nissan that have been refused by corporate on the grounds that an aftermarket part was 'connected' to the component that failed. With that rationale, the oil cooler is connected to the entire car (and certainly the engine), so your warranty is in jeopardy until you fight it out in court.

If we were able to set up a class-action suit, the attorney fees should be covered by Nissan should the ruling be in our favor. We'd have to strike a deal with a law firm or pay a retainer up front to get the ball rolling though. If it went the class-action route, we might as well go for broke and try to make Nissan install the coolers for free.

Modshack · 06-05-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

The problem with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that you may still have a long, drawn-out battle to finally get things to work in your favor. Nissan can deny your warranty claim on any grounds they choose, and then you're stuck fighting the denial in court. I've heard from my dealer that they've submitted warranty claims to Nissan that have been refused by corporate on the grounds that an aftermarket part was 'connected' to the component that failed. With that rationale, the oil cooler is connected to the entire car (and certainly the engine), so your warranty is in jeopardy until you fight it out in court.

.

The law is one thing, Reality another. Spearfish is right. PROVE IT! on your dime BTW....

terrycs · 06-05-2009, 01:37 PM

I’m not sure where this thread is going, but in a nutshell, it has to be proven that the aftermarket part caused the warranty claim. But … the biggest factor is the dealer you take the car to for the service work. Some dealers here in my area actually install exhausts and lower cars before they are even sold. It is really up to them to interpret the warranty claim. For example, I have taken my lowered car to an Infiniti dealer to get an upper control arm checked out and they were cool with it. You just have to know who the mod friendly dealers are.

IMO, get the oil cooler if you need it for the way you drive your car. But I think asking Nissan to change their design will not be possible if the car functions as it was designed to do. We simply cannot argue that because the Z is a performance car, it needs better cooling. Imagine if that were the case … everyone would be TT with 500+ WHp.

That said, if you are tracking your car, you do so at your own risk. If they are able to prove it, they can and most likely will try to deny any warranty claims. BTW, Isn’t this what all the GTR owners are pissed about?

spearfish25 · 06-05-2009, 01:53 PM

Depending on the magnitude of your warranty claim, the dealer may not have the final 'say'. Large warranty claim issues such as a seized motor would go through Nissan's corporate big-wigs, and they are the one's who will bring down your house of cards. I wouldn't trust a dealer saying "we'll warranty all that" unless they claim to back you up on their own dime if Nissan North America or Japan says 'tough luck'. Small issues stay at the dealer level and completely unrelated warranty claims should be safe (say you installed the oil cooler but you're bringing the car in for a warranty repair of a blown subwoofer).

nogoodname · 06-05-2009, 01:54 PM

what a pickle this is

Wally · 06-05-2009, 01:58 PM

This Oil Cooler Issue has become a principal issue as well, I feel that some sort of fraud has taken place, that Nissan shipped vehicles to the reviewers with additional perfomance parts that were not made known to the public. Why did they do this I can only believe because they new this issue would affect the reviews. I bought a sports car for spirited hill country drives etc. Not to be a grocery getter I have one of those already.

Most if not all the reviews did not mention this issue, if Nissan would have been honest from the start many of us would not be in this position.

I wish Consumer Affairs would have let me talk to someone else, as it is very obvious that they are there to just quiet you down.

terrycs · 06-05-2009, 01:58 PM

IMHO ... if you wanna go fast in the Z, screw the warranty. If you want the warranty AND go fast too, buy another car.

terrycs · 06-05-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

This Oil Cooler Issue has become a principal issue as well, I feel that some sort of fraud has taken place, that Nissan shipped vehicles to the reviewers with additional perfomance parts that were not made known to the public. Why did they do this I can only believe because they new this issue would affect the reviews. I bought a sports car for spirited hill country drives etc. Not to be a grocery getter I have one of those already.

Most if not all the reviews did not mention this issue, if Nissan would have been honest from the start many of us would not be in this position.

I wish Consumer Affairs would have let me talk to someone else, as it is very obvious that they are there to just quiet you down.

I admire your tenacity, but I have a feeling it is a lost cause.

spearfish25 · 06-05-2009, 02:01 PM

The warranty is kind of $hit anyway. My audi had a 5 year warranty...the Z only has 3.

nogoodname · 06-05-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrycs

IMHO ... if you wanna go fast in the Z, screw the warranty. If you want the warranty AND go fast too, buy another car.

what...lol.....

the guy wants to go as fast with what the Z has already in it without limping and having to wait like 4 hours for it too cool down to go home...

Wally · 06-05-2009, 02:02 PM

I would if I could, just do not feel I should be responsible for the $ loss due to Nissans misrepresentation.

spearfish25 · 06-05-2009, 02:14 PM

I suppose it's not impossible to install the oil cooler and then just remove it if you had a power-train problem arise. I'd bet the 18yo service guy would never notice you installed one during a routine service. Nissan can't force you to get a service performed by them, so I've opted to have a personal mechanic deal with most issues. Thus, at a local mechanic no one will give you a hard time nor document that you have an oil cooler. If something big happened, you could just pull the oil cooler off and then drop the car off at Nissan for warranty work. Clearly not an ideal situation though.

06-05-2009, 12:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
chubbs A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Zeeland Posts: 1,046 Drives: 2016 370z Auto-Grey Rep Power: 7586	This Mr. "Paul Lehman" character sounds like an unhelpful person who is best avoided. It seems to me that he (and whoever he spoke to) may not know what he's talking about - and they may just be trying to shut you up. Sounds like it's not working though! Before you rush to the courts, are there no other people you can talk to locally, or even nationally? - people who may be more sympathetic and more helpful and more informed? ...because this Mr. "Paul Lehman" is making all the wrong noises. Just never take 'no' for an answer. __________________ . '03 Grey >>> '06 Black >>>'10 Silver >>> '16 Grey ^

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06-05-2009, 12:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
CBRich A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SC Posts: 2,464 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 544	Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. -15 USC 2302(c) From Wikipedia. Basically your warranty can NOT be voided by using an oil cooler UNLESS the dealer shows that your part caused failure.

06-05-2009, 12:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 16	I completely understand Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. -15 USC 2302(c) From Wikipedia. Basically your warranty can NOT be voided by using an oil cooler UNLESS the dealer shows that your part caused failure. My concern is can Nissan come back and say that though the part did not fail but it did not meet meet their specifications and requirements therefore causing a possible claim to be denied. I am not for sure and maybe someone can enlighten me has Nissan stated the requirement and specifications for on oil cooler for the vehicle. This is the gray area I am not looking at the oil cooler as an accessory i.e. wheels, stereo, suspension etc. but as an integral mechanical part that effects the most valuable part of out vehicle.

06-05-2009, 01:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	The problem with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that you may still have a long, drawn-out battle to finally get things to work in your favor. Nissan can deny your warranty claim on any grounds they choose, and then you're stuck fighting the denial in court. I've heard from my dealer that they've submitted warranty claims to Nissan that have been refused by corporate on the grounds that an aftermarket part was 'connected' to the component that failed. With that rationale, the oil cooler is connected to the entire car (and certainly the engine), so your warranty is in jeopardy until you fight it out in court. If we were able to set up a class-action suit, the attorney fees should be covered by Nissan should the ruling be in our favor. We'd have to strike a deal with a law firm or pay a retainer up front to get the ball rolling though. If it went the class-action route, we might as well go for broke and try to make Nissan install the coolers for free.

06-05-2009, 01:37 PM	#21 (permalink)
terrycs Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: La Palma, CA Posts: 123 Drives: 07 G35S Sedan Rep Power: 256	I’m not sure where this thread is going, but in a nutshell, it has to be proven that the aftermarket part caused the warranty claim. But … the biggest factor is the dealer you take the car to for the service work. Some dealers here in my area actually install exhausts and lower cars before they are even sold. It is really up to them to interpret the warranty claim. For example, I have taken my lowered car to an Infiniti dealer to get an upper control arm checked out and they were cool with it. You just have to know who the mod friendly dealers are. IMO, get the oil cooler if you need it for the way you drive your car. But I think asking Nissan to change their design will not be possible if the car functions as it was designed to do. We simply cannot argue that because the Z is a performance car, it needs better cooling. Imagine if that were the case … everyone would be TT with 500+ WHp. That said, if you are tracking your car, you do so at your own risk. If they are able to prove it, they can and most likely will try to deny any warranty claims. BTW, Isn’t this what all the GTR owners are pissed about?

06-05-2009, 01:53 PM	#22 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Depending on the magnitude of your warranty claim, the dealer may not have the final 'say'. Large warranty claim issues such as a seized motor would go through Nissan's corporate big-wigs, and they are the one's who will bring down your house of cards. I wouldn't trust a dealer saying "we'll warranty all that" unless they claim to back you up on their own dime if Nissan North America or Japan says 'tough luck'. Small issues stay at the dealer level and completely unrelated warranty claims should be safe (say you installed the oil cooler but you're bringing the car in for a warranty repair of a blown subwoofer).

06-05-2009, 01:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
nogoodname Lifetime Premium Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Montreal Posts: 22,357 Drives: E46 M3 Rep Power: 1765	what a pickle this is

06-05-2009, 01:58 PM	#24 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 16	This Oil Cooler Issue has become a principal issue as well, I feel that some sort of fraud has taken place, that Nissan shipped vehicles to the reviewers with additional perfomance parts that were not made known to the public. Why did they do this I can only believe because they new this issue would affect the reviews. I bought a sports car for spirited hill country drives etc. Not to be a grocery getter I have one of those already. Most if not all the reviews did not mention this issue, if Nissan would have been honest from the start many of us would not be in this position. I wish Consumer Affairs would have let me talk to someone else, as it is very obvious that they are there to just quiet you down.

06-05-2009, 01:58 PM	#25 (permalink)
terrycs Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: La Palma, CA Posts: 123 Drives: 07 G35S Sedan Rep Power: 256	IMHO ... if you wanna go fast in the Z, screw the warranty. If you want the warranty AND go fast too, buy another car.

06-05-2009, 02:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	The warranty is kind of $hit anyway. My audi had a 5 year warranty...the Z only has 3.

06-05-2009, 02:02 PM	#29 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 16	I would if I could, just do not feel I should be responsible for the $ loss due to Nissans misrepresentation.

06-05-2009, 02:14 PM	#30 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	I suppose it's not impossible to install the oil cooler and then just remove it if you had a power-train problem arise. I'd bet the 18yo service guy would never notice you installed one during a routine service. Nissan can't force you to get a service performed by them, so I've opted to have a personal mechanic deal with most issues. Thus, at a local mechanic no one will give you a hard time nor document that you have an oil cooler. If something big happened, you could just pull the oil cooler off and then drop the car off at Nissan for warranty work. Clearly not an ideal situation though.